DescentBB

Yeah- the guy that the ayatollah wanted dead:

“If tomorrow the Israel/Palestine issue was resolved to the total happiness of all parties, it would not diminish the amount of terrorism coming out of al-Qa’ida by one jot. It’s not what they’re after,” he adds, his foot tapping against mine as he leans forward. “Yes, it’s a recruiting tool, rhetorically. Many people see there’s an injustice there, and it helps them to get people into the gang, but it’s not what they want. What they want is to change the nature of human life on earth into the image of the Taliban. If you want the whole earth to look like Taliban Afghanistan, then you’re on the same side as them. If you don’t want that, you’re not. They do not represent the quest for human justice. That, I think, is one of the great mistakes of the left.”

Within this Talibanist morality, there is room for great slabs of delusion and hypocrisy. In Shalimar the Clown, Rushdie shows sparingly how the jihadi fighters of Afghanistan have sex with adolescent boys, and the next day chop to pieces men they have dubbed “homosexual”. “One of the great untold stories of al-Qa’ida is that they are all these men who f-ck little boys. They all have these disciples who they’re ostensibly training in the way of the warrior, but they’re also enjoying. For a while, then they go off - and they have their wives and families at home. It’s like Classical Greece.” Does he think Osama bin Laden has done it? “I wouldn’t like to say,” he says tactfully. “He’s an Arab, he’s not an Afghan. But Mullah Omar, he’s another story...”

He senses soft racism in the refusal to see Islamic fundamentalists for what they are. When looking at the Christian fundamentalists of the United States, most people see an autonomous movement of superstitious madmen. But when they look at their Islamic equivalents, they assume they cannot mean what they say. “One of the things that’s commonly said by Islamists is that it’s acceptable to bomb a disco, because a disco is a place where people are behaving in a disgusting way. Go away and die - that’s all bin Laden wants you to do. It’s not just about Iraq, it’s about ham sandwiches and kissing in public places and sex with girls you’re not married to.” He pauses. “It’s about life.”

Rushdie is no representative of the right; nor is he of the left. He's able to grasp subtelty that those towards the extremes are not. So it's unfortunate when extreme rightists or leftists use his words (and the words of other reasoned moderates) to support their causes.

That said, I think he's right on the money here, as far as the motives of Al-Quaeda are concerned. The \"racism\" he speaks of isn't the same kind that we're used to discussing, and I don't think that it's a case of \"The brownies are too dumb to comprehend what they're calling for\". I think it's more of a matter of those on the far left putting too much faith in humanity -- how could an entire movement exist founded on the belief that Western culture should be destroyed? Surely their motive is more positive.

At the same time, those on the extreme right can't see how it could be otherwise. As far as they're concerned, since they want us to die to make room for the spread of their culture, we must kill them first.

Both positions are too wrong for me. The right's position, while probably better off for humanity, is wrongly motivated.

Any extreme position is almost always inevitably wrong- but this issue should NOT be partisan at all; it is about our security and being able to identify the real threat to our lives.

YES, all governments have done morally reprehensable things- ours included...but regardless of political leanings- a threat is a threat.

BOTH sides, left and right, have sought to use this threat to political advantage. We may ALL lose if things are so whitewashed in political correctness that we lose sight of what's at stake.

What we face is WORSE than totalitarian communism, WORSE than fascism...it's a viral ideology of homocidal zealotry that can pop up virtually anywhere. It teaches the devaluation of human life- the victim isn't even worthy of existance; the adhereant's life expendable for a greater \"good\" to be rewarded in the afterlife.

ThunderBunny wrote:It teaches the devaluation of human life

Isn't that what the left has been teaching for the past 40 years?

Shadowfury333 wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:It teaches the devaluation of human life

Isn't that what the left has been teaching for the past 40 years?

That's just crazy.

Allow me to express a little doubt that Mr. Rushdie has any information about the behaviour of Al Qaida operatives that came from a reliable source. He is an author of fiction not a journalist. You all seem to take as given that Al Qaida fighters have sex with male children as a matter of course. It might be true in some cases I suppose but it has all the signs of demonizing propoganda and taking without doubt is foolish in the extreme.

Read the Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini its fiction rooted in truth. He says a lot of the things Rushdi does. Not a bad read but the um \"boy love\" is not really needed.

On a side note I say we punt and play defense for awhile. Pull out of Iraq then sell arms to the Sunnis and Shiites. Make some bank while they beat each other up.


Wait till the UN wanks and then roll back in there only if we get free Oil for 10 years or so.

anyone who uses blanket phrases like \"The left is\" or \"The right is\" is entrenched in a polarized, unproductive thought process.

\"Any extreme position is almost always inevitably wrong- but this issue should NOT be partisan at all; it is about our security and being able to identify the real threat to our lives. \"

Right, foolish of us for making it partisan.

Birdseye wrote:anyone who uses blanket phrases like "The left is" or "The right is" is entrenched in a polarized, unproductive thought process.

Exactly. In terms of my personal beliefs, I'm probably much closer to the sides than the middle, yet I can't stand to hear people use phrases like this, even when I completely agree with the points said people are trying to make. Comments like this are ignorant, stereotypical, and just plain counter-productive. The only way for people to work together is to sit down and talk rationally with them, not yell your head off or label them "un-American." What the hell is that supposed to solve, anyway? If you ask me, the whole editorial/talk-radio/talking heads complex of both sides should just go and shove it.

I actually attempted The Kite Runner and it is still kicking around on a shelf somewhere. After awhile it came across as an attempt by an embittered member of a displaced ruling class to make his tormenters look as bad as possible. Seemed like propaganda to me so I quit it. Maybe I should have tried harder.
You should read Honeymoon in Purdah by Allison Wearing. Quite a bit more balanced view of Iran.

Allow me to express a little doubt that Mr. Rushdie has any information about the behaviour of Al Qaida operatives that came from a reliable source. He is an author of fiction not a journalist. You all seem to take as given that Al Qaida fighters have sex with male children as a matter of course. It might be true in some cases I suppose but it has all the signs of demonizing propoganda and taking without doubt is foolish in the extreme.

I know, I can't believe anyone could take all this garbage Thunderbunny posted seriously. It reads like the National Enquirer, not a news story. TB loves to just believe what confirms his own beliefs. Not that you didn't know that already...