DescentBB

This year, I vote for the first time. I've been searching for my candidates views on issues but its confusing because they seem to keep things secret. If anyone knows where I can get better candidate issues tell me please. My dad is going to pull down all the levers for Democrat because thats what he does but I want to choose them based on how they view the following. What are other issues I should look for?

Bee

Gay rights. (I want gays to be allowed a union.)
Stem cell research. ( I want it passed very quickly.)
Minimum wage: (I want it raised)
Religion (I want it out of the classroom)
Teaching of ID (a big no)
Internet: (Not taxable)

Politics have become all about who can promise the most, lie the best and get away with it.

don't worry. It's over with quick and leaves you wondering what happened.

Well your state and district helps, as I can't really tell you to vote for Charlie Justice since he is only for Pinellas county.

Most of those are issues the democrats would agree with if you don't get any more info.

WTF TAXING THE INTERNET WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
WHEN DID THAT GET BROUGHT UP ANYWHERE!?!?!??! OMG!?!??!!

I'm glad that when it comes to the presidential election, my vote will nullify yours.

Bee and I are on the same page...

But i think we need striders to patrol the borders! It would be cool.

Dakatsu wrote:Pinellas county.

?!?!?!?!?! what High school?!?!?!?!?!

/me is a Packer Alumni

I am in middle school (Bay Point Middle School)

ccb056 wrote:I'm glad that when it comes to the presidential election, my vote will nullify yours.

I learned some things about water vapour from your comments in another post but nothing at all from this one. I would be interested in what part of my post you dislike that would cause you to vote the other way.

Just curious... no strings attached.

Bettina

Bet51987 wrote:This year, I vote for the first time. I've been searching for my candidates views on issues but its confusing because they seem to keep things secret. If anyone knows where I can get better candidate issues tell me please. My dad is going to pull down all the levers for Democrat because thats what he does but I want to choose them based on how they view the following. What are other issues I should look for?

Bee

Gay rights. (I want gays to be allowed a union.)
Stem cell research. ( I want it passed very quickly.)
Minimum wage: (I want it raised)
Religion (I want it out of the classroom)
Teaching of ID (a big no)
Internet: (Not taxable)

Hey Bet -- congratulations on your first crack at voting. It's great that you have a fine Dad who has clearly taught you what a great privilege it is to vote.

Since you've asked, I'll give you my advice, for what it's worth. When I was about your age, it was 1978, and in the country was in trouble. President Carter was in office and I supported him against Ronald Reagan on my first vote in November of 1980. I thought Reagan was going to get us all killed, because he was very aggressive in his foreign policy. Back then, the former USSR had a lot of nuclear weapons pointed at the United States.

69 days into the Reagan presidency, a guy tried to kill him. The bullet apparently struck just below Reagan's heart. One of my professors at the University of Texas was in the hallway talking to a student and I heard him say that the gunman should have aimed about one inch higher. I was shocked. This particular professor had been a very good friend to me, but I found his comment despicable. I sure as heck didn't want Reagan running the country, but he was my President.

I voted for Reagan the next time around. It wasn't because of that incident -- it was because he was turning the country around. But that incident opened my eyes to other worlds, and now I'm grateful for it. About a year ago I went to the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California and wept at his memorial. Caught me quite off-guard.

Vote your heart. Then support your government. That's not to say don't disagree. But think critically - on all of the points you raised above. And above all, always think for yourself. We are so, so lucky, and you may not fully appreciate that for a number of years yet.

Good luck and VOTE!

BD

Well said, BD!!

/me clinks glasses

Still unsure of my registration status with the Maryland Board of Elections...

Don't need electronic voting machines to screw things up, I guess.

Bold Deceiver wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:This year, I vote for the first time. I've been searching for my candidates views on issues but its confusing because they seem to keep things secret. If anyone knows where I can get better candidate issues tell me please. My dad is going to pull down all the levers for Democrat because thats what he does but I want to choose them based on how they view the following. What are other issues I should look for?

Bee

Gay rights. (I want gays to be allowed a union.)
Stem cell research. ( I want it passed very quickly.)
Minimum wage: (I want it raised)
Religion (I want it out of the classroom)
Teaching of ID (a big no)
Internet: (Not taxable)

Hey Bet -- congratulations on your first crack at voting. It's great that you have a fine Dad who has clearly taught you what a great privilege it is to vote.

Since you've asked, I'll give you my advice, for what it's worth. When I was about your age, it was 1978, and in the country was in trouble. President Carter was in office and I supported him against Ronald Reagan on my first vote in November of 1980. I thought Reagan was going to get us all killed, because he was very aggressive in his foreign policy. Back then, the former USSR had a lot of nuclear weapons pointed at the United States.

69 days into the Reagan presidency, a guy tried to kill him. The bullet apparently struck just below Reagan's heart. One of my professors at the University of Texas was in the hallway talking to a student and I heard him say that the gunman should have aimed about one inch higher. I was shocked. This particular professor had been a very good friend to me, but I found his comment despicable. I sure as heck didn't want Reagan running the country, but he was my President.

I voted for Reagan the next time around. It wasn't because of that incident -- it was because he was turning the country around. But that incident opened my eyes to other worlds, and now I'm grateful for it. About a year ago I went to the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California and wept at his memorial. Caught me quite off-guard.

Vote your heart. Then support your government. That's not to say don't disagree. But think critically - on all of the points you raised above. And above all, always think for yourself. We are so, so lucky, and you may not fully appreciate that for a number of years yet.

Good luck and VOTE!

BD

I wanted to thank you for your great post because its exactly how I feel, and even though I'm just one small person with one small vote it means something to me. I already registered as a Democrat so my dad will think I'm following in his footsteps but my levers will be moved for the person depending on the issues.

An example is evolution being discussed in another post as being implausible, questionable, or difficult to believe. That kind of thinking in any school classroom is an outright danger to education. Kansas rings a big bell which is why I will cast my vote to get those kinds of people out of office. Stem cell research is another big issue with me. My country, because of its president, will cause important advancements in healthcare to lag behind every other country in the entire world because of his religious views.

When my dad was a boy, he went to St. Pauls Parochial school along with his best friend who grew up to be our parish priest. We see him all the time when we go to church or when he comes to our house to visit or for supper and I love him very much. My dad however, chose to send me to the local public school so I could have more than two teachers but he made sure I attended religious instruction.

I want to vote on every issue I can because when I have children someday, I want to make sure no teacher hides speciation, no state votes to have stickers put in her books, and no country bans stem cell research because of religious views. Religion belongs in church and education belongs in schools. These are some of the issues that make me want to vote and btw... I cried too, when reading about the cuban missile crisis only to follow it with John F Kennedys assasination. Its a lousy world.

Thank you again...

Bettina

Bet51987 wrote:An example is evolution being discussed in another post as being implausible, questionable, or difficult to believe. That kind of thinking in any school classroom is an outright danger to education.

Why is it bad for education if what is taught is being questioned? Isn't that exactly what is needed in any good education system? This seems to contradict your liberal views.

You enumerated a list of issues, what might be called \"hot-button issues\" for you. Those issues are certainly relevant at the present time. You may also want to give some thought to what issues are likely to be important in the decades ahead, and evaluate whether given candidates (particularly incumbents) have done anything substantive to address long-term issues or have even bothered to express any interest in long-term issues. These issues pertain to things like demographics and fiscal policy.

Here is an example:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061028/ap_ ... e_bankrupt

Assessing the character and competence of a candidate is just as important as evaluating their views on particular issues.

You also have to take a holistic view in certain respects. When selecting candidates for a local school board, for example, you would want to select candidates who have the necessary skills for the position. Such individuals have to make fiscal decisions, decisions about curricula, etc. But not all individuals are equally well suited to the requirements. I had to vote for three candidates for my local school board, and I ended up choosing two with backgrounds that made them well suited for fiscal decisions, and I chose one individual because he had occupied a variety of positions in the local school system and would therefore have intimate knowledge of issues that affect teachers, staff and students. Individually, none of these people is ideal for the job in my view, but collectively they (hopefully) have the necessary competence to make the required deicsions. I am frankly less concerned about their views on particular issues than I am about whether they are as crooked as a dog's hind leg and whether they have the types of skills and knowledge the position requires.

Shadowfury333 wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:An example is evolution being discussed in another post as being implausible, questionable, or difficult to believe. That kind of thinking in any school classroom is an outright danger to education.

Why is it bad for education if what is taught is being questioned? Isn't that exactly what is needed in any good education system? This seems to contradict your liberal views.

I think you should have discussions of differing viewpoints. (and I'm generally a conservative ) In the science classroom, one should experience the diversity of opinion on science topics. I think it's perfectly fine to have other kinds of topics to be brought up and discussed in other classrooms. There shouldn't be any reason, for example, that you couldn't discuss ID in the philosophy or ethics arena. Religious topics ought to be fair game too, even in the public schools, as long as it is not to advance a certain creed. Religion is part of human history - it is silly to simply ignore it in the educational system.

Its not silly. Religion in school is what I'm dead against because its never about the works of Jesus, his life, the commandments, or ethics. I believe in the story of Jesus because there was enough evidence for me to believe. But, you don't get that. What you get is ID and the warped convictions it breeds. There is nothing wrong with different viewpoints as long as it has some shred of evidence no matter how small. Take M-theory for example or extra dimensions proposed by strings. They work in the Planck length so small its impossible to test it but mathematically, and through the work of particle accelerators, proven equations consistantly fit together like pieces of a puzzle. Its testable and repeatable but because there is no picture yet we don't know what they mean. But the point is some things fit.

What does ID have? Nothing.... Nothing but a group of theists with a religous agenda simply stating that some things in the universe, or origins of life, are too complicated and must have had some intellegent cause.... aka God, spiritual leader, supernatural designer, etc etc. No proof, nothing testable, no mathematical equations, nothing. Its pure nonsense. I refuse to say pseuodscience because there is no science at all. What bugs me most is how the ID people go to great extremes to spout off their mutual admiration society credentials as evidence of authority. It makes me sick.

For us to be great, we need to take religion out of schools, out of the president, and out of legislators so this country doesn't end up dumb. I'm an atheist and a student... not Satan. When I go to class I want to listen to facts. When I go home I want to study and learn, and when I go to church I want to sing and hope. I've never once condemed the church. I just don't want it in school.

Bettina

edit: its not worth it

You're beginning to sound VERY much like that which you Hate Bet.

Heh Bet, with that in mind you might as well vote for a communist party. Same mentality regarding religion.

CUDA wrote:

Bet51987 wrote: I believe in the story of Jesus because there was enough evidence for me to believe.

No you don't,
the "story" of Jesus is the story about the Messiah, the God-man, how God came to earth and took the form of man, how he chose to die on the cross for our sins and rise from the dead on the 3rd day. so don't delude yourself any further. because if there was enough "evidence " for you to believe then you would not call yourself an atheist.

Bet51987 wrote:For us to be great, we need to take religion out of schools, out of the president, and out of legislators so this country doesn't end up dumb.

well that will NEVER happen, it is written into the constitution and is our right to practice our beliefs. you trying to make people think how you want us to think is so Islam of you.


U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

First Amendment - Religion and Expression

Amendment Text | Annotations

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;



it the second part of that article that most of the left so conveniently ignores.

Cuda...

You don't know where I'm coming from at all.

The second part.... I know the constitution. I am not against the teaching of real religion. The bible, scripture, the ten commandments, ethics, and morals, etc. Its not for me, but I have no objection. What I do have a problem with is ID being misrepresented as science and "forcing" young minds to accept it as an alternative to accepted science. Or, worse, being used to squelch stem cell research by a president biased on religious grounds. When a president makes a religous choice that we all have to live by, it is not unlike Islam.

The first part.... Believe me, no one has struggled with this more than me. I can easily separate the person on that cross from... what He stood for, to His delusion of thinking he was talking to God. Please don't condemn me too quickly for that statement because I didn't say that to be mean.

I honor Jesus every Sunday as a prophet who gave his life really thinking he was saving me and there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he really thought he was talking to God. I stand under that cross every Sunday {in two churches now} and I'm truly, truly, humbled by the person on it. But, those tears streaming down my face when I look at Him are only for Him. Jesus. He was not the son of any God and thats the part thats sad.

Peace...

Bettina

Bet51987 wrote:He was not the son of any God and thats the part thats sad.

Prove it, since that's what you care about. I read your posts and I see that you are blindly refusing to acknowledge any unintuitive belief and blindly sticking to the stuff you can sense. While I have no problem with you doing that, I find it annoying that you say it should be done for the sake of intelligence and reason, as it is never reasonable to blindly accept or refuse something.

As for the presidential stuff, isn't it possible to pass a bill enough times that it can't get vetoed, or something like that? (We haven't had a veto system in Canada since 1922, so I'm a bit rusty on the specific limitations of the concept)

BTW Matthew 3:16-17: "This is my Son, in whom I am pleased". Since the bible is our only evidence in this regard, it's the closest to proof I can give.

Shadowfury333 wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:He was not the son of any God and thats the part thats sad.

Prove it

I can't... Now its your turn. Prove otherwise.

Bee

Bet51987 wrote:

Shadowfury333 wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:He was not the son of any God and thats the part thats sad.

Prove it

I can't... Now its your turn. Prove otherwise.

Bee

Read my edit, I figured you'd say this.

Bet51987 wrote: Cuda...

You don't know where I'm coming from at all.

Trust me he does. And you don't know the constitution as well as you think you do or you would not have made that statement, period. God is mentioned numerous times in the Constitution directly.

Bet51987 wrote:

Shadowfury333 wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:He was not the son of any God and thats the part thats sad.

Prove it

I can't... Now its your turn. Prove otherwise.

Bee

then why do you sing praises to him every sunday??

CUDA wrote:then why do you sing praises to him every sunday??

Don't get her started, we've been over this before and she acknowledges the hypocrisy.

Shadowfury333 wrote:

CUDA wrote:then why do you sing praises to him every sunday??

Don't get her started, we've been over this before and she acknowledges the hypocrisy.

this is beyond Hypocrisy, its insanity. in her mind she's singing praises to a wooden statue

CUDA wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:

Shadowfury333 wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:He was not the son of any God and thats the part thats sad.

Prove it

I can't... Now its your turn. Prove otherwise.

Bee

then why do you sing praises to him every sunday??

Because its my job. Ok, not really. Its because I'm emotional and I respect the man on the cross and btw, Jesus is not a wooden statue. He was a great person. (To me) its no different than paying homage to soldiers on veterans day. I mean no harm and didn't want this to become a religious thread.

I am voting for the first time and I want to vote on the issues that I've spoken about... I've added the death penalty to my list too. I want my vote to mean something to me.

Bee

CUDA wrote:this is beyond Hypocrisy, its insanity. in her mind she's singing praises to a wooden statue

Cuda, I think I recall you having kids, but if not, let's pretend you do. Would you force your kids to go to church if they asked not to? If you had a kid who became a devout atheist, what would you do?

Bet51987 wrote:Its not silly. Religion in school is what I'm dead against because its never about the works of Jesus, his life, the commandments, or ethics. I believe in the story of Jesus because there was enough evidence for me to believe. But, you don't get that. What you get is ID and the warped convictions it breeds... Bettina

Seems to me you did not read my post. I thought I was quite clear that ID was not a valid subject for the science classroom. otoh, I don't see how you can have any sort of intelligent discussion of history anywhere in the world for the period of the last several thousand years without broaching the subject of religion.

This religion argument all started from a thread about voting.

Dont you all know? Voting doesnt matter any more, anyway and hasnt since the First GW election:

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/26/158241

Ive been voting Libertarian consistently and militantly for 10 years now.

And since it dosent matter anyway, kindly keep the \"Throwing your vote away\" comments to yourselves. At least I can walk out of a voting booth not holding my nose at the skunks for which I just voted.

Jeff250 wrote:

CUDA wrote:this is beyond Hypocrisy, its insanity. in her mind she's singing praises to a wooden statue

Cuda, I think I recall you having kids, but if not, let's pretend you do. Would you force your kids to go to church if they asked not to? If you had a kid who became a devout atheist, what would you do?

I do have kids several of them, and when they became Adults they were able to make their own call. and I do have one Daughter 19 thats not walking the walk but at least she's not a hypocrite in the matter.

ok I'm done ragging on Bee, forgive me Bee. I didn't mean to make this personal against you.

Hmm... interesting...
Bee, I presume you mean forcing religion on children should be banned from schools, and not just teaching religion to those who are willing to listen, yes?

Myself, I think it should be up to the parents to decide if their child should have to participate in religious traditions.
...Which is what I've always seen in any school I've seen.

people seem to forget that unlike popular beliefs it is not Constitutionally illegal to teach religion in schools, OR the have a nativity scene on Government property. but the left would like to misslead you into thinking it is.
What is unconsitutional is for the government to make a LAW that recognizes the establishment or creation of any specific religion.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Fair enough Cuda...but when you talk of teaching religion in schools you're speaking of one certain teaching, Christianity. Do you want them to teach Islam in schools? No. When you say they should teach, you mean the same one you follow, which then establishes one religion in the public domain, where it doesn't belong. We all been over this before.

Might I ask, why such a big deal to have religion in schools? You are free to instruct your kids at all times, take them to church, whatever, why school as well?

I have not been advocating teaching religion. I have been advocating teaching about religion, of whatever varieties are relevent to a particular subject matter. I don't see any reason why you can't have a discussion of principles without a requirement to adherence of a set of beliefs.

dissent wrote:I have not been advocating teaching religion. I have been advocating teaching about religion, of whatever varieties are relevent to a particular subject matter. I don't see any reason why you can't have a discussion of principles without a requirement to adherence of a set of beliefs.

x2

Might I ask, why such a big deal to have religion in schools? You are free to instruct your kids at all times, take them to church, whatever, why school as well?

Because Religion is a HUGE part of our society, over 85% of our country professes some kind of faith, why would you not want to educate that part of our country?

CUDA wrote:Because Religion is a HUGE part of our society, over 85% of our country professes some kind of faith, why would you not want to educate that part of our country?

Ah, but you can't really teach religion in regards to all religions, you can only teach one at a time.

well thats not true at all. you can cross reference religion all day long while staying in the same context. besides if they were elective classes students could chose what they wanted to study