DescentBB

Am I the only one who thinks kids SHOULD be allowed to pray at school. In the news, I have seen where atheists are like \"School is for learning, and prayer doesn't belong.\" I think not allowing them to pray IS against the freedom of religion rules, and as long as it is not mandatory to do it, and it doesn't interrupt school, they should be allowed to do it.

Remember, I am an agnostic liberal who thinks god should be taken off money and the pledge of alliegance.

Discuss?

Dakatsu wrote:Am I the only one who thinks kids SHOULD be allowed to pray at school. In the news, I have seen where atheists are like "School is for learning, and prayer doesn't belong." I think not allowing them to pray IS against the freedom of religion rules, and as long as it is not mandatory to do it, and it doesn't interrupt school, they should be allowed to do it.

Remember, I am an agnostic liberal who thinks god should be taken off money and the pledge of alliegance.

Discuss?

Each and every one of us have the right to believe how they wish and to perform their beliefs as they wish. Therefore:

• 1. Prayer should be allowed in School.
  2. Every student has the right to Not participate in prayer if they so wish.
  3. Every student has the right to participate in prayer if the so wish.
  4. Students should not be restricted from prayer because of someone else.
  5. Students should not be restricted from NOT praying because of someone else.

To not allow prayer or to require prayer is against freedom.

I am a strongly religious person who believes that God belongs on our money and in the Pledge of Allegiance not because of religion, but because this nation (United States) was formed so that people could believe and worship (or not believe and worship) as people may choose... in Freedom. In other words, I believe the presence of God on our money and in the Pledge of Allegiance symbolizes Freedom... which is why this nation was formed.

In public schools, students ARE allowed to pray, and in most cases are allowed to even have student-led prayers.

It's an unfortunately common misconception that leads students to believe the law prevents them from praying at all.

What is against the rules is teacher/staff-led/mandatory prayer.

[Edit:
I am 100% for students having the freedom to pray and have student-led prayer in school - they have this freedom, and it should never be taken away.
However, I do understand the restriction for teachers and staff, as the government should not be in the business of religion.]

Foil wrote:In public schools, students ARE allowed to pray, and in most cases are allowed to even have student-led prayers.

It's an unfortunately common misconception that leads students to believe the law prevents them from praying at all.

What is against the rules is teacher/staff-led/mandatory prayer.

[Edit:
I am 100% for students having the freedom to pray and have student-led prayer in school - they have this freedom, and it should never be taken away.
However, I do understand the restriction for teachers and staff, as the government should not be in the business of religion.]

This is absolutely correct. The students are allowed to pray as they wish, as long as its not a disruption to the class as a whole. Thats what the whole moment of silence is for. Like what Foil said, the only restriction is that faculty cannot FORCE students to pray or NOT to pray...and it shouldn't be any other way IMO.

btw, I'm an athiest.

I know that you can anyway, I mean it should stay that way.

Administrators should be allowed to pray, but not conduct it or anything (Unless after school hours aka WWJD).

Wow... tab makes you submit your post before its finished!

If kids want to pray in school, that's fine, as long as they're not forced to or made obligated to by teachers or faculty.

I remember at my high school there was a group of kids that organized a prayer circle every morning in the middle of the cafeteria. People made a fuss about it, but it wasn't organized or run by the school, people weren't made to participate, it was just a bunch of kids that wanted to pray together before school.

And I have no problem with that. The only thing that bothered me was they were so damn public about it, standing there in the middle of the crowded cafeteria holding hands praying. If you want to participate in your faith, that's fine, but why make such a big show of it? Validate yourselves to your God, not to your classmates.

I don't have a problem with prayer in school but not out loud and not when class has started. In my high school we were given a \"minute of silence\" during home room to pray or think about whatever we wanted. The keyword was \"silence\" which was fair to everyone because praying out loud is problamatic and unnecessary.

When your in church, they wouldn't allow you to do your schoolwork out loud, would they?

Bettina

Beowulf wrote:If you want to participate in your faith, that's fine, but why make such a big show of it?

Christianity is a communal religion. It's not just an individual "me and God" thing... it's meant to restore our relationships with one another, and we're meant to help build and strengthen one another. That means meeting as a group is an important part of it. And that means letting others know there's a group they can be involved in is important.

Now, the choice of location might be questionable -- why the cafeteria in particular? Was that the only part of the school open before the first bell? Did they stand right in the middle blocking the aisle or did they just gather around a table or off to the side? Those are all more practical considerations for that group to look at. High schoolers aren't exactly known for thinking everything through...

As long as either choice is not forced on them, then I'm fine with it.

Lothar wrote:High schoolers aren't exactly known for thinking everything through...

Especially in this day and age. Makes you wonder what was in the water.

Are you opinions still the same when it comes to spreading a rug on the floor to face Mecca and voicing your submission to the will of Allah?

Ford Prefect wrote:Are you opinions still the same when it comes to spreading a rug on the floor to face Mecca and voicing your submission to the will of Allah?

Depends, if it interrupts class time, then no. But they are free to do that during lunch, halltime, or freetime.

Ford Prefect wrote:Are you opinions still the same when it comes to spreading a rug on the floor to face Mecca and voicing your submission to the will of Allah?

Honestly, I don't know. I never saw that. If any noise was made then that would violate the "silence" part. One time, during the minute of silence, a boy dropped a book on purpose and I think my heart stopped. There were lots of giggles, but he was given detention. This is your minute. You can pray, meditate, look around, read, write some notes, or just think about anything, but no noise. So, I guess if he mumbled out loud he would face detention.

Bee

disallowing prayers in school would be a form of discrimination based on mental illness.
we shouldn't do that

The spread a rug thing got me thinking.
Maybe religion could be compulsory in school and everyone has to go into the same big room and deal with rug spreaders and bible thumpers and chicken sacrificers etc. etc.
Call it Culture Center, make it like a mall with semi-seperate rooms like big alcoves open to the central mall area.

The schools function wouldn't be to teach any one religion but to teach that all are welcome but that ultimately all religions must conform to the authority of the school ie; to the basic fundamental law of the constitution.
It would teach the proper order of the food chain from an early age as well as tolerance. Students would know from kindergarten that a secular authority governs the whole country and that authority respects all the religious factions.
Instead of the authority is constantly at odds with the religious factions.

Ford Prefect wrote:Are you opinions still the same when it comes to spreading a rug on the floor to face Mecca and voicing your submission to the will of Allah?

As in the previous case, depends on how loud and how disruptive they're being. Are they blocking the middle of the room? Are they so loud that other students can't carry on a conversation? Again, considerations the group should look at, but high schoolers aren't exactly known for thinking those things through...

Nice idea Will. Kind of a reality television version of Comparative Religion 101.
Hmmm...Given what is on TV these days I might be able to sell that to a major network.

Sure you should be allowed to pray at school - just so long as it's not during learning time. I'm sure there are a hundred million kids going \"Dear God, please get me out of this test I haven't studied for.\"

You can't ban an activity which doesn't display any activity at all! I mean, no one prays on their knees any more - so it's impossible to ban. Might as well try to ban looking at the bulging chests of the 12th grade girls...

What I would he strongly against is any organised or scheduled times for prayers - those definitely have no place in a public school. (And arguably not in a private school either!)

Mobius wrote:Might as well try to ban looking at the bulging chests of the 12th grade girls...

Stfu Mobius, dont let them know!!!

Ford Prefect wrote:....of Comparative Religion 101.

I actually got this in an elective english class in HS called "Humanities". We studied art and religion but only a brief look at them. I was a great class.

Actually, I'm Atheist, yet I don't mind that my school has a 30-second praying session right before class starts (6 - 7 times a day). I'm not forced to pray, but I don't mind the others, who the majority would certainly be Catholic, to pray.

Mobius wrote: no one prays on their knees any more - so it's impossible to ban.

I do.

Mobius wrote:Might as well try to ban looking at the bulging chests of the 12th grade girls...

It is. And you could be brought up on charges of ogaling, sexual harrasment, and lued behaviour. I've seen it happen here in my home town.

Mobius wrote: those definitely have no place in a public school.

Why?

Mobius wrote: (And arguably not in a private school either!)

Law here does not infringe on those rights where private schools are concerned. That's one reason they are private. Catholic or other religious schools have the right to do that.

besides. the whole separation of church and state thing is not actually in our constitution.

Did you know that Jefferson held church and bible studies in the capitol building?