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woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:05 pm

I have a real hard time fathoming how someone can go in and shoot to death 30+ innocent souls because his girl friend split on him. Please explain to me what state of mind you have to be in. I have had gf's break up with me when I was younger but never felt like I had to butcher people to prove my self. Any of you feel murderous because you were rejected?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:34 pm

I could barely believe my ears when I heard that on the news. Freaking unreal. And that is the only reason? Ugh, not that I expected anything more from a mass murderer, but that is truly pathetic.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:39 pm

Welcome to current society.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:43 pm

woodchip wrote:I have a real hard time fathoming how someone can go in and shoot to death 30+ innocent souls because his girl friend split on him. Please explain to me what state of mind you have to be in. I have had gf's break up with me when I was younger but never felt like I had to butcher people to prove my self. Any of you feel murderous because you were rejected?

Obviously, you have never sat down and watched MTV.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:09 pm

I was rejected once, and tried to commit suicide, while in that state of mind, many things went through my head. But how the hell does \"Killing 32+ people\" go into that thought process? It is beyond me.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:59 pm

If students were allowed to carry concealed, the death toll wouldn't have gone that high.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:07 pm

ccb056 wrote:If students were allowed to carry concealed, the death toll wouldn't have gone that high.

Im sure school fights would be over faster too

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:10 pm

LOL, I'm talking about adults, not 14 year old kids who are so emotionally juvenile they would kill themselves over breaking up with a girlfriend.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:18 pm

Have they determined that was his motive? Just a bad breakup, so he went on a killing spree?

Man... that's insane. I have no idea how someone could get so far gone as to go killing 30 people because your girl left you...

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:24 pm

Lothar wrote:Have they determined that was his motive? Just a bad breakup, so he went on a killing spree?

Man... that's insane. I have no idea how someone could get so far gone as to go killing 30 people because your girl left you...

the tools available won't make it a harder thing to do

with 30+ dead, as many injured, this wasn't don't with a pistol.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:32 pm

What I was thinking when I heard it was WTF? basically. and when I heard that the ugnman had killed himself I thought that I wanted to find the guy and kill him, but then he had already done that himself.
If I'm going to be lined up and shot at, either I die trying to subdue the guy or die being shot execution style, I, personally, would go for the former...

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:24 pm

Some elements of society are quite sick.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:53 pm

fliptw wrote:
Lothar wrote:Have they determined that was his motive? Just a bad breakup, so he went on a killing spree?

Man... that's insane. I have no idea how someone could get so far gone as to go killing 30 people because your girl left you...
the tools available won't make it a harder thing to do

with 30+ dead, as many injured, this wasn't don't with a pistol.

He used a 9mm and a 22 cal, both pistols. He had a bunch of clips with him and reloaded a few times.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:49 pm

I despair of the state of the world that my children will have to live in.

Obviously, you have never sat down and watched MTV.

And, I might add, any of the hundreds of movies where vengeance is dominant theme. It seems that no perceived wrong can go unanswered if you are a \"true man\". What wrong all the innocent victims could have done is unknown to all but the deranged mind of the killer.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:12 pm

Psychological instability caused by emotional stress, would make sense in temporary loss of reason.

Also, quite it is within reason these student's may have contributed to such emotional stress.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:58 pm

What made me horribly sick was watching a bunch of policemen hiding behind their cars while hearing those gunshots being fired. They just stayed there while every shot fired was someone being killed.

All I can think about are those students looking out the window at them. I just don't understand.

Bettina

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:10 pm

I think that's an awfully uneducated observation.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:01 pm

The pathetic gunman should rot in Hell. There is no excuse for this. Absolutely none.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:58 am

all this over a breakup? oh you gotta be kidding...

Kiran · Post by **Kiran** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:36 am

Bet51987 wrote:What made me horribly sick was watching a bunch of policemen hiding behind their cars while hearing those gunshots being fired. They just stayed there while every shot fired was someone being killed.

All I can think about are those students looking out the window at them. I just don't understand.

Bettina

It was part of protocool. If you can't locate exactly where the gunman is or who the gunman is, then you can't run in; otherwise you're blindly aiming your gun at the wrong person and then YOU could get shot before you even see who the shooter is. Death toll would be higher. It's pointless for a team of police to just run in hoping they don't get shot and then play hide and seek for the killer.

All you could think about were these students looking out at these guys.
What do you think all these cops could think about when they're looking back at these terrified students knowing that they would get shot, and there's nothing the cops can do until they find out where the killer is.
Plus I'm sure there were some swats that were trying to sneak into the building without getting caught by the killer. I was at work all day and had a night class last night, so I didn't see how the police handled this. However, I think that they probably did the best they could with the time and information they had during the second shooting.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:18 am

Kiran I respectfully disagree. Standing around and looking at the build does not in my mind fulfill the motto, \"To serve and protect\". All they succeeded to do was make sure the gunman didn't leave the building. As the old saying goes, all the cops are good for is to investigate the aftermath. Watching all the cops running around with weapons drawn and doing nothing until the gunshots stopped, makes me wonder why they didn't just pull out their ticket books and cite cars whose parking meters time expired. Better to let the students bear the shooters fury than go in and have the police expose themselves to possible gunfire.

I wonder how long before the anti-gunners start their rant instead of asking how a registered alien can even buy a firearm.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:31 am

Agree with it or not woodchip, thats police procedure. Would you rather they charge the school and risk shooting innocent students trying to get away, or get themselves shot and killed in the process?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:38 am

I just heard some interesting news. Apparently the Va. legislature was considering a bill that would allow concealed weapons permit holders to carry their weapons on the Va Tech campus.
When the legislature decided to prevent the bill from being brought forward for a vote a spokesman for the school, who opposed the law, said something like
'Well now parents of students here can rest easy knowing that this campus is a safer place without people being able to carry weapons here...'

Here's the story, it's absolutely eerie to read these comments!
****************

BLACKSBURG -- Seventy-five guns sit in a weapons storage facility at the Virginia Tech police station.

The guns are secured inside storage compartments in a locked room slightly larger than a walk-in closet.

University policy requires students and employees, other than police, to check their guns there. If they want to take them off campus, they have to sign them out, and a university police officer must retrieve them.

Regardless of whatever permits they may have, those students and employees are not allowed to possess guns on campus.

Tech's regulations are similar to gun policies at public colleges throughout the state, such as the University of Virginia, Virginia Military Institute and Radford University.

But a bill being considered in the state House of Delegates challenges the authority of public universities to create such policies.

House Bill 1572, proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, would prohibit universities from making \"rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun.\"

The legislation makes exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

The issue of guns on campus received attention at Tech last spring when a student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit.

Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy that reiterates the ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibits visitors from bringing guns into campus facilities.

Two bills seeking to clarify the issue by giving college governing boards explicit authority to regulate firearms on campus died in committee during last year's General Assembly session.

Philip Van Cleave, a Midlothian resident who is president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, said Wednesday that public universities have no right to tell visitors where they can bring guns. Their authority over students remains a gray area, he said.

HB 1572 was proposed on behalf of Van Cleave's organization.

\"The basic intent is to allow students with concealed weapons permits to be able to carry their gun with them on campus just like they can anywhere else in the state,\" he said. \"You can count the number of exceptions on one hand.\"

But Tech Police Chief Debra Duncan said colleges should be included in those exceptions.

\"You can't carry a gun on an airplane, you can't carry a gun in a federal building and you shouldn't be able to carry a gun at an institute of learning,\" she said.

Spokesman Gary Frink said Gilbert wouldn't discuss the bill until it moved further along in the legislative process. The bill is in subcommittee and Van Cleave said he didn't expect it to be heard for at least a couple of weeks.

While passage of the bill is still a long way off -- with hurdles to clear in subcommittee and full committee before going in front of all delegates and then the Senate -- Van Cleave is confident it could be passed.

\"I don't believe we're overstepping any bounds. We get into this magical thing where someone steps on school property and the sky parts,\" he said. \"School is just another place.\"

But officials at colleges throughout the state argue that school isn't just another place and guns are anathema to a learning environment that should be free of fear or intimidation.

Tech spokesman Larry Hincker labeled it a \"guns-in-the-classroom bill.\"

\"We do believe this has grave implications,\" he said. \"Why would the General Assembly wish to legislate to make campuses unsafe?\"

But National Rifle Association head Wayne LaPierre, who was in Roanoke on Wednesday to speak to a Kiwanis Club gathering, pointed out that guns can actually make campuses safer.

He cited the fatal shootings at the Appalachian School of Law in which several armed students subdued the gunman.

Van Cleave pointed out potential safety problems facing women going to night classes.

\"You never know when evil will pop up,\" he said.

Van Cleave said his group has heard from several students who want the right to carry guns on campus.

Stephanie Harmon, president of the Radford University Student Government Association, said she would bring the topic up at a student senate meeting Monday before the student government took an official stance on the bill.

But she opposes it.

\"It's not that I'm opposed to gun rights, it's just not necessary,\" she said. \"It's taking an increased risk of something happening when you allow a gun in the classroom.\"

Staff writer Laurence Hammack contributed to this story.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:33 am

woodchip wrote:Kiran I respectfully disagree. Standing around and looking at the build does not in my mind fulfill the motto, "To serve and protect". All they succeeded to do was make sure the gunman didn't leave the building. As the old saying goes, all the cops are good for is to investigate the aftermath. Watching all the cops running around with weapons drawn and doing nothing until the gunshots stopped, makes me wonder why they didn't just pull out their ticket books and cite cars whose parking meters time expired. Better to let the students bear the shooters fury than go in and have the police expose themselves to possible gunfire.

All you have is a shaky cell phone video. You don't know what was happening in all sides of the building, two you don't know if other officers were already in the building, three you don't know how long police were outside before they went in.

Finally, you're not a police officer and so you don't know the risks.

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:41 am

I always love that the solution to killing with guns is to throw more guns into the mix. Hooray!!

Let's arm the teachers, students, hell..let's arm the robots in the engineering dept too! That way when two kids argue, we can have college killings every single day over the most idiotic of circumstances. But that way, when the .000001% chance a gunman walks into the building, everyone is ready to go. Hell...I should have put a 12 pound carronade in my dorm room...it would have kept all the kids looking for drugs out!

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:05 am

Zuruck wrote:I always love that the solution to killing with guns is to throw more guns into the mix. Hooray!!

Let's arm the teachers, students, hell..let's arm the robots in the engineering dept too! That way when two kids argue, we can have college killings every single day over the most idiotic of circumstances. But that way, when the .000001% chance a gunman walks into the building, everyone is ready to go. Hell...I should have put a 12 pound carronade in my dorm room...it would have kept all the kids looking for drugs out!

Zuruck I'm not saying one of those 75 guns belonging to law abiding members of the faculty and student body that were locked up because of the law would have stopped this guy in this case...maybe, who knows.
But for you to pull percentages out of your ass to try and ridicule the chances of self defense being a factor is really showing how emotional and completely full of crap your argument is since we do have real world, actual instances where the school shooter was stopped by armed students and or faculty members and they didn't have to be 'ready to shoot' when it happened. In fact in one case the good guy went out to his car, retrieved his weapon and then went and stopped the school shooter.
So please, spare us the unsubstantiated anti-gun spin. That's Mobius' job anyway, you need to get your own gig

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:55 am

A bill to keep guns out of the hands of students and teachers is not going to prevent a murderous lunatic from storming into a school with a bunch of guns and shooting people, ever.

Quite the opposite, if I know that guns and other weapons are prohibited on school grounds, that makes schools some of the most attractive targets for a shooting rampage. Because one: I know that chaos will erupt, presenting many targets, and two: the odds of someone being armed and able to stop me are dramatically lower then at other \"less secure\" locations.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:14 pm

Bet51987 wrote:What made me horribly sick was watching a bunch of policemen hiding behind their cars while hearing those gunshots being fired. They just stayed there while every shot fired was someone being killed.

All I can think about are those students looking out the window at them. I just don't understand.

Bettina

1: The police would be at a large disadvantage to being able to take down the lunatic. As soon as they would be spotted, they would be instantly shot up without hesitation; while the police would have to find and indentify the enemy and make sure they won't accidentally shoot anyone in the crossfire. It doesn't sound like much, but as I said, they'd be shot up instantly as soon as noticed!
2: It might not seem so, but the police REALLY hate having to kill someone! Anyone!

Oh, and it's a VERY bad idea to hand out guns to college students at a place where they usually feel they're pretty much forced to go to! It might not stop raving lunatics, but it will stop the semi-insane!

Kiran · Post by **Kiran** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:50 pm

I feel the same way as some of you guys do, about the cops just standing there where they're mostly protected by something and guns drawn while watching these students scream for help. However, it was better that the cops wait for more info rather than to rush inside, not knowing the situation at hand. This isn't a video game where you can play the character of a soldier or a SWAT and run inside, aiming your gun at every student, figuring out which is innocent and move on to look for a killer. In reality, you have to identify the killer, locate the killer, and plan accordingly. You have to obey the order of your superior on when to move. You work as a team with the other cops and get the students out safely before taking down the killer. Part of the reasons why there are rules to follow is to protect the defense team from being sued \"because they shot the wrong guy\" or something like that.

By the way, it's not the university's fault that they did not evacuate the campus when the first shooting occured. How can they know that a domestic dispute between lovers will lead to a mass murder? There were no warnings that someone was so upset that he'll show up and shoot everyone in sight. They did it right the first time, locking down the dorm and advising the residents there to stay in their rooms.

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:14 pm

Yeah you're right Will...I dont' think my percentage is correct...it should be much lower than that.

But...since I do not have the stats right at my fingertips like the rest of you seem to I guess America should just stay in the 18th century and let the rest of the advanced world move on.

Don't think though for a second that gun control is not going to come up with this latest episode. It's only a matter of time before gun loving GOP'ers are out of office and it's carefully looked at. So I can wait...hopefully it doesn't take another one of these before people realize it's not worth it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/

Look at england, handguns are completely illegal YET a country of over 56 million mananged to have less killings than New York City, with a paltry 8 million in population.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:39 pm

Zuruck wrote:Look at england, handguns are completely illegal YET a country of over 56 million mananged to have less killings than New York City, with a paltry 8 million in population.

Identical average population density?

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:39 pm

Zuruck wrote:Yeah you're right Will...I dont' think my percentage is correct...it should be much lower than that.

Well, considering that it's oh so very much higher than a terrorist attack, and anyone that watches the American news knows that you have about a 90% chance of dying by a terrorist (or so it would seem), it MUST be higher than less than 1%!

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:23 pm

yeah Krom, population density has nothing to do with how many people are killed...because then Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, and every other city in the world would be far past America in terms of killings.

Perhaps it is time for you people to realize that, excluding third world countries, America is the ONLY country to have such a problem. I'm not saying nobody dies in the other countries...but our murder rate is a ★■◆●ing joke...and it's because of people like you all

Hell...I bet even if any of you gun peeps were there it wouldn't have mattered. You would have all pissed yourselves instead of the bravado that you show on an internet bulletin board

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:43 pm

Zuruck wrote:I'm not saying nobody dies in the other countries...but our murder rate is a **** joke...and it's because of people like you all

Yea it's all because of the most law abiding subset of the whole country that other people are murderous thugs, gangbangers and robbers. Absolutely right, it has nothing to do with their family life, their lack of education and social values, their drug use and general fatherless babies-raising-babies environment. In fact if we law abiding gun owners would move to Japan or Sweden a portion of the population there would suddenly be transformed into the very criminal element that is driving up the murder rate here...

God you are so smart I don't know how we ever can survive without your guidance!

Hell...I bet even if any of you gun peeps were there it wouldn't have mattered. You would have all pissed yourselves instead of the bravado that you show on an internet bulletin board

And if a legal concealed permit holding person decided to piss himself instead of shooting the school shooter that would have made things worse how?

On the other hand, as it has actually been shown to happen during other incidents of crazy people shooting up the school or workplace, instead of pissing down their leg they have stopped the crazy shooter. That wouldn't be a bad thing would it?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:58 pm

Before we start on how save England is, ask yourself why the bobbies now carry sidearms.

As for pissing ones trousers, Zuruck I suggest you research on how many times a lawful citizen has been in a store when a armed robbery occured and shot the robber before he could do harm.

What amazes me is how reasonably intelligent peeps think hanging a \"gun free zone\" sign on the entry points really will keep bad things from happening.
BTW I heard wearing a garlic necklace will keep vampires away.

As to the police intervening, all I know is what I saw. That and the shooter died by suicide and not by a police bullet.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:27 pm

woodchip wrote:Before we start on how save England is, ask yourself why the bobbies now carry sidearms.

Good question. The bobbies in my country aren't allowed to carry guns, and we're not a crime-full country!

Oh, alse I forgot to say; I heard that he went beserk because he found out that his girlfriend was cheating on him too!

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:28 pm

That saddest thing to me about this is that I am neither shocked nor saddened by what happened. I have truly become desensitized to this kind of thing. If I was personally involved I am sure it would be different but as it is, all I can say is wow, sucks to be them. That's a crappy attitude I know, but I can't help it.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:31 pm

I think you're desensitized to the news of it happening. It would be a different story if you had to go into the building and see the bodies.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:37 pm

Topher wrote:It would be a different story if you had to go into the building and see the bodies.

I already said that. Still, so many people I have heard on the radio or seen on the news that weren't there and don't know anyone who was, claim to be sickened, shocked, horrified, etc. that this happened. Sorry, I just don't feel any of that.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:40 pm

Dedman wrote:
Topher wrote:It would be a different story if you had to go into the building and see the bodies.
I already said that. Still, so many people I have heard on the radio or seen on the news that weren't there and don't know anyone who was, claim to be sickened, shocked, horrified, etc. that this happened. Sorry, I just don't feel any of that.

I cry through all of it. I wish I was you.

Bee

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