DescentBB

Ok seriously, WTF is going on here? A student that asked LEGITIMATE questions in a non threatening manner gets harassed by cops and tasered for no legitimate reason?!

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/68791.html



I seriously hope he sues the ★■◆● out of those damn nazi cops.

Theres your police force for ya.

The tazer was designed and intended to be used against those where using a gun isnt practical and yet you cant subdue the subject, yet here you can clearly see that he is on the ground, all they had to do is bound his legs and carry him off and dump him into the van and then off to the station. He wasn't endangering anyones lives by any stretch. Instead you have pigs like these who are just itching to use their new toys against someone.

And there's already been about 240 deaths (if I remember correctly on last count) as a result of these Tazers. The only thing they will be used for is abuse, and most cops use guns anyway. If there is a need for a non lethal takedown there is still the pepper spray.

One thing I'd point out was what I posted on my LiveJournal about this yesterday. Basically, I initially had no sympathy for this guy. CNN, MSNBC, and FOX were all interested in depicting this guy as a \"rich white kid\" acting like a crybaby.

That video definitively proved otherwise.

Everything \"disorderly\" about this incident stemmed from the officer grabbing the student's arms without any provocation. It is also clear that the student is on the ground and detained when they use the Taser. The media bias was strong on this one and it is embarrassing.

Furthermore, Kerry's reaction to this is absolutely disgusting. He would rather stand there and make sardonic remarks at the guy than own up to the questions being asked. This is the guy who the Democratic Party thought could run the country? This incompetent fool couldn't even handle a college student. Pathetic.

I think the larger point was missed: that the student asked some questions that the officials weren't comfortable with and was promptly silenced.

Ferno wrote:I think the larger point was missed: that the student asked some questions that the officials weren't comfortable with and was promptly silenced.

Exactly.

Rent-a-cops do as they are ordered. Kerry's people pulled the trigger.

It's like the debates...all questions are staged and they don't ask outside the relm of those said questions. I haven't seen the video yet but is anyone really surprised? A politician avoiding a question that they didn't prepare the perfect response for?

As for the Taser, what do you expect from the campus police? If there had been one big tough cop that would have dragged the guy out, no problems, but since they hired little kids to be campus security they felt they needed a taser...blame goes to both Kerry and campus security. Kerry for being a weasel and campus security for overuse of force..eff 'em all!

Ferno wrote:I think the larger point was missed: that the student asked some questions that the officials weren't comfortable with and was promptly silenced.

This is what happens when you asked questions that can make others think twice about voting for someone. I hope he sues the police, kerry and anyone else for billions.

The boy was wrong...and the senator DID answer.

The boy refused to give up the microphone so someone else can ask his/her question and became disruptive when they tried to take it away from him. He was acting like a complete jerk.

During the scuffle, Mr. Kerry said...\"Thats alright.. Let me answer his question!\" and he did answer but the boy continued making a spectacle of himself prompting many students to applaud when they finally took the microphone away from him.

Do I think he should have been tazered? Never, ever, ever. He had no weapon, there was enough security, and he was not a threat. In fact, he never should have been arrested. He should have been ejected from the building...and thats all.

The blame goes to the boy and the security people....not Kerry.

Bettina

meh,

Kerry enabled the security people to be there by having his speech there in the first place.

If Mr. kerry had thought this through and considered every outcome he would have promptly canceled his speech to keep such atrocities from hapening in the first place.

How long are we gonna put up with the democrats putting the American people in harms way on our own soil? It's time to put a stop to this type of sensless violence against the good American people just trying to gain knowledge.


LOL! it actually does feel good to write some diatribe about the other party based soley on a kneejerk reaction!
I can see why the Dems enjoy doing it!

Bet51987 wrote:The boy refused to give up the microphone so someone else can ask his/her question and became disruptive when they tried to take it away from him. He was acting like a complete jerk.

'Someone else' my foot! It was quite distinctly his turn to ask questions. He didn't even get to finish his first question before the police asked him to stop.

Bet51987 wrote:During the scuffle, Mr. Kerry said..."Thats alright.. Let me answer his question!" and he did answer

But he didn't stop the police. Like it is in schools, those that stand by and watch others being bullied are just as bad as the bullies themselves.
Edit: In fact, re-watching the video again, Kerry didn't answer the question at all!

Bet51987 wrote:but the boy continued making a spectacle of himself prompting many students to applaud when they finally took the microphone away from him.

No. No they didn't. The audience quite distinctly applauded right after he shouted "I'm not doing this". They were quite distinctly applauding him for rebelling!

Seriously, did you actually watch the video, or did you just listen to Fox News?

TIGERassault wrote:Seriously, did you actually watch the video, or did you just listen to Fox News?

Actually, I watched a more complete version.

Here is a better video with the language unedited, so don't listen if your offended. This boy was a complete jerk and I stand by everything I said.



Bee

Bet51987 wrote:

TIGERassault wrote:Seriously, did you actually watch the video, or did you just listen to Fox News?

Actually, I watched a more complete version.

Here is a better video with the language unedited, so don't listen if your offended. This boy was a complete jerk and I stand by everything I said.



Bee

yup. ditto. He got what he deserved. There is a time ans way to speak your mind. This setting was not a good format for "civil disobedience." Personally, after 40 years, the 60's and 70's, I've grown tired of "student protesters".

I have no problem in trying to assert your point when it seems you're being blown off. The cameras were already rolling. Serveral I might add. Pushing the envelope that far was was outside orderly conduct and silly. He didn't seem to notice the tazering that much really.

Yeah screw that guy, damn protester. Freedom of speech, who the hell ever gave him that right? The police should of killed him in my opinion, he got off too light!

I think Bettina has done a very good analysis of the situation here.

Freedom of speech is NOT the issue. As far as I can tell, the boy was NOT punished because they didn't like his question, it was because he was out of time and refused to give up the mike to the next person. If there is a freedom of speech issue, its related to the next person in line who was not being allowed to ask THEIR question.

That said, as Bettina as pointed out, the security guards overreacted. The boy DID need to be removed, but the guards applied more force than was necessary or prudent.

Plenty of blame to go around.

Dakatsu wrote:Yeah screw that guy, damn protester. Freedom of speech, who the hell ever gave him that right? The police should of killed him in my opinion, he got off too light!

Oh please. Read the Bill of Rights. We are not granted the freedom to act like an idiot and say whatever we feel. If you believe that, you need to turn off the TV.

Duper wrote:yup. ditto. He got what he deserved. There is a time ans way to speak your mind. This setting was not a good format for "civil disobedience." Personally, after 40 years, the 60's and 70's, I've grown tired of "student protesters".

No, he doesn't deserve it. He should have been taken away and got booked for disorderly conduct, not tazered. I hate hippies probably more than you and even I think the cops have gone too far.

here's the event in it's entirety.



the claims 'disorderly conduct' and 'got what he deserved' fall right on their faces.

People get two minutes at a debate, no matter what.

Kerry vaguely answered the question only after the kid was hauled out of there.

universities are supposed to be the bastion of freedom of though, speech and a free flow of ideas. So when someone's hauled out of there because someone didn't like the questions asked, then there's no more freedom.

and those who are complicit or actually support people being hauled away for asking the wrong questions should be ashamed of themselves. It reeks of communist oppression.

Bet51987 wrote:

TIGERassault wrote:Seriously, did you actually watch the video, or did you just listen to Fox News?

Actually, I watched a more complete version.

Here is a better video with the language unedited, so don't listen if your offended. This boy was a complete jerk and I stand by everything I said.



Bee

Bee Thank-you for the other link as it supplied me with more information and another viewing angle. If you watch the video closely you can see the handlers behind the scenes giving hand signals for a woman to seize the mike even though he wasn't speaking for more than a minute.

Even though he used a "bad word" it was his right to do so. He was tasered for no good reason in my mind, and essentially for speaking his mind. I'll stand up for what I say in believing freedom of speech was trampled upon in this case and criminal acts of violence used to shut him up. I cant believe no one had any balls to do anything and just sat there and watched like lemmings. Some even laughed when he was being tasered. Gestapo tactics.

I would have at least stood up and yelled at the officers that I witnessed their brutality and would report them. I once stood up for a guy getting kicked in the head at a bar by the bouncers. He was bleeding from the eyes, ears, nose and mouth and was getting lined up for some dude to give him another running punt at his head. I jumped in to stop it and said I'm witness to you F$56ers assaulting the kid, and then fought six big guys for 45 minutes. After not being able to haul me down and after breaking some dudes arm just by squeezing it, they backed off and called the cops and I ended spending the night in jail.

The prosecutor asked my side of the story at the pre-sentence hearing the next week and when I came to the part where I fought these six guys he said, That was you?! I drop the charges." It sucked to be thrown in jail for essentially saving some guys life, but would I do it again? Hell yes. I got those guys canned and run out of Town because they put another kid in a coma for 3 months doing the same thing a little while before.

Tasering a student for standing up for free speech is plain wrong Bee.

Canuck wrote:Tasering a student for standing up for free speech is plain wrong Bee.

As is resisting arrest.

They gave him plenty of chances. They warned him and they did it several times.

You can't retroactively claim a political stance such as "free speech" and expect the police to consider that when they are arresting you. Police are there to keep order, not debate whether the banner of free speech blankets the wrong you are being arrested for.

Policy are not judge, jury and executioner. To implement the "Internet's" demand that this guy be let go for free speech gives the policeman an awful lot of power. Do you really want them deciding what is freespeech and what isn't?

I'd personally rather they just keep the order.

Ferno wrote:...and those who are complicit or actually support people being hauled away for asking the wrong questions should be ashamed of themselves. It reeks of communist oppression.

Don't you think "Communist oppression" is stretching it a bit?

Canuck wrote:Tasering a student for standing up for free speech is plain wrong Bee.

This had nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with conduct. Suppose everyone in that auditorium acted like that boy? What kind of meeting would it have been then?

Bee

did you watch the angle I posted bee?

or for that matter.. did anybody?


\"\"Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.\" Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.\"

\"An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.\" State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260

\"Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness\"

Which are you endangering by taking those rulings to the extreme?

Ferno wrote:here's the event in it's entirety.



the claims 'disorderly conduct' and 'got what he deserved' fall right on their faces.

People get two minutes at a debate, no matter what.

Kerry vaguely answered the question only after the kid was hauled out of there.

universities are supposed to be the bastion of freedom of though, speech and a free flow of ideas. So when someone's hauled out of there because someone didn't like the questions asked, then there's no more freedom.

and those who are complicit or actually support people being hauled away for asking the wrong questions should be ashamed of themselves. It reeks of communist oppression.

Not only that, but Kerry made a snide joke AT this kid's expense WHILE he was being assaulted by these campus rent-a-cops. (the "I'll answer his question, but unfortunately he's not able to come up here and swear me in as president!" comment)

Bet51987 wrote:The boy was wrong...and the senator DID answer.

Umm, the only question he did answer was if he read the book. Then one of the campus rent-a-cops tried to steal the mic away from him before he could finish asking his second question. Last I checked, unless he was openly heckling the speaker (Which he was most certainly was NOT doing given that he openly complimented Kerry at the very start!) he deserved his two minutes. This was a public event (clearly evident given the fact that you see STUDENTS) so freedom of speech is very much a part of the issue here.

Kilarin wrote:Freedom of speech is NOT the issue. As far as I can tell, the boy was NOT punished because they didn't like his question, it was because he was out of time and refused to give up the mike to the next person. If there is a freedom of speech issue, its related to the next person in line who was not being allowed to ask THEIR question.

You are allowed TWO minutes at the mic. If you pay clear attention to what he said during the video, he flat out says "my two minutes aren't up yet!" The student first starts speaking at time index 00:06 (Bet's link) and is interrupted at 00:39 by one of the rent-a-cops, and interrupted AGAIN at 1:15, and finally his mic was cut at 1:37. It doesn't take a math major to figure out that he didn't get his two minutes is quite clear.

Topher wrote:As is resisting arrest.

They gave him plenty of chances. They warned him and they did it several times.

Umm, he wasn't placed under arrest until AFTER he was tased. He repeatedly asked what he did wrong, which was met with nothing but wrongful assault by the rent-a-cops. He was shoved around like a rag doll without provocation, shoved to the ground without provocation, and then tased him AFTER HE HAD OFFERED TO LEAVE PEACEFULLY. I'm sorry, but if that isn't excessive and abuse of power, I don't know what is. Then he was hauled away in handcuffs. Please tell me at what point here was he resisting arrest? Where was he read his miranda rights? Please tell me at WHAT point in this did he EVER do ANYTHING that warranted the use of the taser?

MD-2389 wrote:Umm, he wasn't placed under arrest until AFTER he was tased. He repeatedly asked what he did wrong, which was met with nothing but wrongful assault by the rent-a-cops. He was shoved around like a rag doll without provocation, shoved to the ground without provocation, and then tased him AFTER HE HAD OFFERED TO LEAVE PEACEFULLY. I'm sorry, but if that isn't excessive and abuse of power, I don't know what is. Then he was hauled away in handcuffs. Please tell me at what point here was he resisting arrest? Where was he read his miranda rights? Please tell me at WHAT point in this did he EVER do ANYTHING that warranted the use of the taser?

How does using a tazer make someone a nazi?

Topher wrote:

MD-2389 wrote:Umm, he wasn't placed under arrest until AFTER he was tased. He repeatedly asked what he did wrong, which was met with nothing but wrongful assault by the rent-a-cops. He was shoved around like a rag doll without provocation, shoved to the ground without provocation, and then tased him AFTER HE HAD OFFERED TO LEAVE PEACEFULLY. I'm sorry, but if that isn't excessive and abuse of power, I don't know what is. Then he was hauled away in handcuffs. Please tell me at what point here was he resisting arrest? Where was he read his miranda rights? Please tell me at WHAT point in this did he EVER do ANYTHING that warranted the use of the taser?

How does using a tazer make someone a nazi?

Nice dodge.

MD-2389 wrote:

Topher wrote:

MD-2389 wrote:Umm, he wasn't placed under arrest until AFTER he was tased. He repeatedly asked what he did wrong, which was met with nothing but wrongful assault by the rent-a-cops. He was shoved around like a rag doll without provocation, shoved to the ground without provocation, and then tased him AFTER HE HAD OFFERED TO LEAVE PEACEFULLY. I'm sorry, but if that isn't excessive and abuse of power, I don't know what is. Then he was hauled away in handcuffs. Please tell me at what point here was he resisting arrest? Where was he read his miranda rights? Please tell me at WHAT point in this did he EVER do ANYTHING that warranted the use of the taser?

How does using a tazer make someone a nazi?

Nice dodge.

No, you didn't ask a question. "I'm sorry, but if that isn't excessive and abuse of power, I don't know what is." The rest is just focusing on my use of the word "arrest"

You've stated your beliefs and trying to convince you otherwise isn't going to get anywhere.

I want to know more about what you think: Why are they nazis? What role should police play that would prevent them from being called "nazis"?

/me tasers Topher for posting an opinion.

Funny how the Canadians see what was going on and are the most vocal and actually saying something about it while the majority of Americans are like, \"meh he deserved it.\" and sit and watch while someone is assailed by force of their rights. Makes me sick inside to watch someone get beat on... are you all so desensitized to violence you don't give a crap for anyone but yourselves? Land of the free.... phffft, Stalag style propaganda does work.

Oh and MD... excellent rebuttal, I confirm seeing all those events in those videos as well.

Edit;
Good film angle JD, made me sick again to watch it.
If I was there I think I may have assaulted an Officer. They should make everyone of those involved get a Taser shot and a blanket party.

Topher wrote:No, you didn't ask a question.

Yes I did. Perhaps you missed the last two lines of my post?

I want to know more about what you think: Why are they nazis? What role should police play that would prevent them from being called "nazis"?

For starters, the student asked a legitimate question and was immediately assaulted for it. Thats CENSORSHIP. If you review your history of nazi germany, thats one of the first things Hitler did. (Note: I'm focusing on the campus police here, not Kerry. Kerry just stood there and did nothing but make snide comments and was being an all around ★■◆●.)

As for the role of the police, unless there is some kind of threatening action being done (ie: threatening/harassing the speaker or others in the vicinity) they should butt the hell out. Now if his two minutes were up, this would be totally different. They would have had a legitimate reason to ESCORT him away from the microphone and either to his seat or out of the building. The taser should only be used if there is a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. This was not the case here, and the fact that one of them used a potentially lethal device on an unarmed and non-threatening individual is totally uncalled for.

Topher wrote:Why are they nazis?

I think if you watched the vid MD and I posted the answer would be QUITE obvious.

Bet51987 wrote:This boy was a complete jerk and I stand by everything I said.

Yeah. Because we should arrest people for being jerks. I'm calling the cops on you, Bet. Once more, you astound me.

Duper wrote:Personally, after 40 years, the 60's and 70's, I've grown tired of "student protesters".

Get used to it. The President isn't listening. The Congress doesn't listen. The Senate would rather sit around and condemn MoveOn newspaper ads than do anything. Yet, you have this overwhelming majority of American who - even in the best possible light - want a change of direction in Iraq. What are people SUPPOSED to do?

When did the government stop fearing the people it was supposed to represent? When did we become so damn complacent? When did we start to believe that old codgers in those ivory towers had more common sense than we did?

When did it become a crime to ask a question?

Kyouryuu wrote:When did it become a crime to ask a question?

Which is why I used the term 'communist oppression'

because that is what this is. Do you not see your rights being torn away from you? I mean what are you going to do when you can't say ANYTHING but the 'pure' words?

This is bordering on fascism.

Kyouryuu wrote:When did it become a crime to ask a question?

Which is exactly why I said "nazi cops" in my OP. I mean, what's next, going back and arresting that one MTV reporter for asking Clinton if he ever smoked a joint?

Look at what you're saying: \"police brutality\" and \"censorship\". People keep mixing the two together. Next it's we violated his freedom of assembly because he couldn't stay at the microphone for as long as he wanted.

Should police be allowed to use tasers? I think that's a valid question.
Should people be allowed to make a scene just because they're unhappy about something? Another good question.

But linking the two and suddently there's this huge commotion that deserves CAPITAL letters and bold statements about the injustice of the system!

I find that people who want a reason to complain about something can't help but see a forest between two trees.

I personally think it was ageism. If he was younger and had that cuter toddler personality aura, everyone would just love hearing what he had to say.

ageism. heh. ya know that backs up what I thought of earlier.

if the powers that be go after the old, there will be a massive uproar. but if the powers go after the young, they can blame them for being 'disruptive', and the old will just go right along with it.

Blame the young enough and they start to cower.


EDIT: It's painfully obvious that you have NOT seen the vid MD and I posted, Topher.

Topher wrote:Look at what you're saying: "police brutality" and "censorship". People keep mixing the two together. Next it's we violated his freedom of assembly because he couldn't stay at the microphone for as long as he wanted.

But linking the two and suddently there's this huge commotion that deserves CAPITAL letters and bold statements about the injustice of the system!

Because its a VALID issue. It WAS censorship because he was prevented from asking his questions, and it WAS police brutality because he was assaulted without provocation. (The latter being a serious crime if my memory serves.) He was censored and then assaulted, so how could the two NOT be linked together in some way?

I saw the video. It's an excellent demonstration of freedom of speech: John Kerry is obviously not a Bush supporter, and yet he is free to come to schools and talk about why that is. People come and see him and aren't afraid of \"Nazi's\" coming to arrest them. I see freedom of assembly.

Topher wrote:I saw the video. It's an excellent demonstration of freedom of speech: John Kerry is obviously not a Bush supporter, and yet he is free to come to schools and talk about why that is. People come and see him and aren't afraid of "Nazi's" coming to arrest them. I see freedom of assembly.

This isn't about Kerry.

Why not? Why not about the rest of the people's rights to hear Kerry speak?

The person at the microphone came nowhere near dominating the debate. he had three questions, and two minutes to ask them. they cut him off well before that.

What part of those facts is difficult for you to understand?

He's not the first person to have been cut off at the mike, or asked to be escorted out of a room. It's not a right to get up to a microphone to ask the speaker a question, it's an opportunity.

I do have hard time believing he was cut off at the mike for the purpose of being tazered. If they wanted to hurt him for his opinion, why do it in public?