DescentBB

Ten Obvious Reasons Why Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace

#1 10,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last six years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).


#2 Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.


#3 Muhammad said in many places that he has been \"ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger.\" In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.


#4 After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him, and knew his religion best, immediately fell into war with each other.

Muhammad's favorite daughter, Fatima, and her husband, Ali (the second convert to Islam, who was raised like a son to Muhammad) fought a war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was the \"perfect woman.\"

Not only was her husband, Ali, eventually murdered, but Fatima (who survived the early years at Mecca safe and sound) died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only three months after her father died.

Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by the son of the first. The fourth caliph was killed by the fifth, who subsequently poisoned one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. Muhammad's other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.

Within 50 years, the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war.


#5 Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.


#6 Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.

None of these other religions are at war with each other.


#7 Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.


#8 Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.



#9 The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.


#10 \"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!\"

(The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)

Well, the wedding i went to last night was Islamic. I survived.

TB, you are a silly billy

Propaganda.

Islam still has time to prove itself. For the most part, it hasn't been a problem; it just has some nutjobs that are.

Why yes. I'm sure Christianity's old inquisition and burning-at-the-stake habits are much more favourable!

#10 \"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!\"

Wow! I never knew some people prayed when they were about to die! This is clearly evidence that Islam is the most evil of religions!

quick! someone show TB a qu'ran!

I'll bet ya he'll melt.

P.S. ThunderBunny, nearly everything you listed is simply points of history (and not backed by fact, either. Got links?). That does NOT make them reasons it's not a religion of peace. Instead you're just stating propaganda based on actions of people, not the tenants of a \"religion\".

After all the posts you've done in the past, can't you do better than that?

*random bul[size=0].[/size]lsh[size=0].[/size]it by Thunderbunny*

Well, now that we've established that that's an unpopular view-point...

ThunderBunny is absolutely right. The saying that Islam is a religion of peace is a blatant lie at worst, and wishful thinking at best.

TIGERassault wrote:Why yes. I'm sure Christianity's old inquisition and burning-at-the-stake habits are much more favourable!

It is a historical fact that the establishment of the erra you speak of (the Catholic church) was corrupt, even burning people at the stake for their faith in Jesus, because their views were a threat to the church's power, and using the Bibles they had helped get into the hands of the common people (one of their crimes) as kindling. To spell it out so that your casual style of information parsing can handle it: what they did in the name of "Christianity" was contrary to Christianity; violence [toward infidels] is not contrary to Islam (though it may be to some Muslims). It is only the source that matters in the discussion of doctrine, not merely individuals and their personal beliefs, because there will always be people "radical" enough to take a doctrine through to its conclusion.

TIGERassault wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:#10 "Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"

(The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)

Wow! I never knew some people prayed when they were about to die! This is clearly evidence that Islam is the most evil of religions!

What??

hehe Thorne. That was sarcasm on both accounts.

There's a difference between a sarcastic remark and a joke. In both cases he is using sarcasm to make a serious point.

The point of the first is that Christianity is no better (probably assuming that TB is a Christian), and the point of the second is assumedly that #10 means nothing, because it's common for people to pray on their death bed/suicide jet.

MD-2389 wrote:*random bul[size=0].[/size]lsh[size=0].[/size]it by Thunderbunny*

[placeholder for image]

lol. That's a little too apt... pity about the bevel/emboss/glow Photoshop terrorism, but anyway.

Although TB may overstate the issue, there is still something to be said about the differences between a religion based on a man of peace and one who carried a sword.

I mean, come on.

And as far as those who are always saying stuff like, and I’m paraphrasing “yea yea Christians are just as bad…the thing is …people corrupt religion and use it for their own gain but that does not mean Christianity is violent by default.

Is the debate here about the religion, or how people behave?

Here this is for you linky hos

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/terrorism.htm

Islam has always been a violent religion right from the beginning when the man himself, Mohammed, personally led attacks on all unbelievers and non converts. He slaughtered them all... right down to women and children... which pretty much shaped the religion. The Islamic invasions of India, Turkey, Africa, Balkans, Spain, etc, has shown that Islam is always spread by military conquests.

Your exactly right Thunderbunny, only your ten count is extremely low because I can give you hundreds. Don't let those who embrace Islam as a peaceful religion sway you.

Bettina

Most religions have violent pasts. People hold the beliefs so strong that they're willing to kill to get someone else to believe it too. Islam's violent moments are just current. Dont let any religion totally sway you, most religion now is for the purpose of trying to run politics (the leaders, anyway).

Sergeant Thorne wrote:There's a difference between a sarcastic remark and a joke. In both cases he is using sarcasm to make a serious point.

Actually, they were sarcastic jokes. We've done this so many, many times, and I've stopped caring about trying to have a debate where neither side even starts to get swayed, because everyone's just listing off their own thoughts without sources.

Bet51987 wrote:Islam has always been a violent religion right from the beginning when the man himself, Mohammed, personally led attacks on all unbelievers and non converts. He slaughtered them all... right down to women and children...

"He slaughtered them all", are you sure about that? Because I really didn't know of an era where everyone was horribly slaughtered except for Muslims.

Bet51987 wrote:Your

DING DING DING DING!

Tigerassault... please honor my PM.

Bet51987 wrote:Tigerassault... please honor my PM.

Thanks, but I prefer being able to debate. Just becuase I have a different viewpoint than you doesn't mean that I should stop debating with you.

TIGERassult wrote:... and I've stopped caring about trying to have a debate ...

TIGERassult wrote:Thanks, but I prefer being able to debate. Just becuase I have a different viewpoint than you doesn't mean that I should stop debating with you.

If you're going to debate, why don't you start debating, instead of making cheap shots at the ones who are.

TIGERassault wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:Tigerassault... please honor my PM.

Thanks, but I prefer being able to debate. Just becuase I have a different viewpoint than you doesn't mean that I should stop debating with you.

Tiger, it has nothing to do with debate and you know that. I will debate you anytime, on any issue, but I object to the constant grammar correcting of my posts, which you seem to consider a duty. For example, I rather focus on the argument or thought, instead of pointing out in bold where you spelled "because" wrong. Stop correcting my grammar and we will be able to debate.

Bettina

Spaceboy wrote:Most religions have violent pasts. People hold the beliefs so strong that they're willing to kill to get someone else to believe it too. Islam's violent moments are just current. Dont let any religion totally sway you, most religion now is for the purpose of trying to run politics (the leaders, anyway).

Finally, someone with a clue.

The problem with Islamity is that it teaches violence... and a few misbehaving believers promote peace. With Christianity, peacefulness is taught, but the the few misbehaving believers, particularly during a certain time period in history, sought to interpret violence... unfortunately they were the ones in power at the time.

There will always be some idiots who can interpret something for there own purpose.

WillyP wrote:There will always be some idiots who can interpret something for there own purpose.

Another one!

WillyP wrote:The problem with Islamity is that it teaches violence...

Nope. It doesn't.

No? What does it teach?

Thunder Bunny wrote: #2 Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.


#3 Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

That sounds like 'teaching violence' to me. If Muhammad is a prophet, that means he outranks a disciple, and his word is above reproach. He is so revered that it is taboo to even allow your pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad. Yet, being a mortal, he would be ranked slightly below a son of god, such as Jesus Christ. I am not sure but I think he would also be ranked below Spirits and certainly Angels, while alive, but I can only guess that he would be ranked higher upon death. But definitely below God, who would be ranked above all but Donii.

Willy, the countless families i've met, work with, socialize with, wept, and laughed with that practice Islam, do not condone violence. Continue to watch the media and form an opinion if you want, but you're wrong.

Sorry, you posted while I was editing... but we are talking about the teachings of a religous leader, not what people practice. No Jimmy Jonesing, please!

I know many Christians, and a few of Spanish descent, who are peaceful and decent folks, but should I deny the Spanish Inquisition? I know some people of German descent who are kind, and loving, and all round good people, should I conclude that the Holocaust never happened?

Flabby Chick wrote:

WillyP wrote:The problem with Islamity is that it teaches violence...

Nope. It doesn't.

Yes, it does and I can show you where in the Koran. Just because you have met Muslims who don't adhere to every word of Mohammed (thankfully) doesn't mean it's not there. In the mideast, those words are being taught.

Bee

Bee, you know where i live, it's not right what you say.

Willy, i'll get back to you later...bloody kids.

Every religion has its crazies. No religion can sit back and pretend it doesn't, which is the problem with Thorne's point. You can't conveniently escape the problem of history's religious zealots by outcasting and isolating them, saying \"Well, they weren't part of this religion because they were corrupt\" while simultaneously arguing that every follower of Islam who commits an equally heinous action in the name of zeal must therefore condemn the whole lot. That's just hypocritical.

And Bee... Bee, Bee, Bee... I'm disappointed. Did you actually read the Koran, or are you just going by the selections that O'Reilly provided for you? Because, really, the likelihood that you read and truly understand it are probably about as likely as I understand it - not very. Stop wallowing in the media of your choosing and listen to some opposing viewpoints every now and then. At your age, it behooves you, lest you wish to become a zealot like the very people you whine about.

What we need is a sort of..... Festivus, for the rest of us......

Kyouryuu wrote:Every religion has its crazies. No religion can sit back and pretend it doesn't, which is the problem with Thorne's point. You can't conveniently escape the problem of history's religious zealots by outcasting and isolating them, saying "Well, they weren't part of this religion because they were corrupt" while simultaneously arguing that every follower of Islam who commits an equally heinous action in the name of zeal must therefore condemn the whole lot. That's just hypocritical.

Better read my reply again, Kyouryuu, that's not at all what I said.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:... To spell it out so that your casual style of information parsing can handle it: what they did in the name of "Christianity" was contrary to Christianity; violence [toward infidels] is not contrary to Islam (though it may be to some Muslims). ...

And particularly:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:... It is only the source that matters in the discussion of doctrine, not merely individuals and their personal beliefs, because there will always be people "radical" enough to take a doctrine through to its conclusion.

Flabby Chick wrote:Willy, the countless families i've met, work with, socialize with, wept, and laughed with that practice Islam, do not condone violence. Continue to watch the media and form an opinion if you want, but you're wrong.

Kudos Flabby, I too have met many practicing Muslims and never had an issue;

Being a Tile setter for 17 years I was exposed to many different cultures and religions through my co-workers. Islam teaches peace and understanding amongst its core values. Read the Qur'an and you'll find its really quite beautiful and has allot of passages that also are corroborated in Christian writings. Noah and the great flood, and many other religious events are mentioned... really its all in there. Just read.

I was brought up to make up my own mind about religion and others religion. There seems to be a common thread through every religion if you look at enough of them, (quite amazing how all around the world they all talk about a great flood). I was also taught I don't have to believe in someone else's religion but to at least listen what they have to say and if something seems like a good idea or practice to me, to embrace that idea or thought if I wish. However I don't need to embrace the whole religion or any of it at all as well. As long as I am not hurting someone else or imposing my views on someone that is fine in my books. So when the JW's and the born agains keep coming up to me and telling me I'm going to Hell because I don't hang in their Church, Phffft they can pound sand.

I cant believe how ignorant and brainwashed Americans are. They talk like they are authorities on the subject and have no *&^^* clue... really. And every religion I've heard or read about had a violent or dark past at some time, and some nutjob that misinterprets the religious works of their choice for violent means... every one so far.

My 2¢

We all know how brutal Christianity has been up until about 100 years ago, but when has there ever been:

Over 10,000 Muslims screamed for murder in the streets over naming a teddy bear.

Salmon Rushdie

The publication of the book and the fatwa sparked violence around the world, with bookstores being firebombed. Muslim communities in several nations in the West held public rallies in which copies of the book were burned. Several people associated with translating or publishing the book were attacked, seriously injured, and even killed. Many more people died in riots in Third World countries.

Dunno, Flabs...every other week I see 5-10 thousand people openly calling for murder for some barely perceptable slight...

I don't see that on my news here but I suspect if some Muslim came up with a stuffed camel called Jesus, or wrote a book called \"Jesus was just a guy\" there would be more than a few Christians offended. And isn't the Catholic Church guilty of hiding and tolerating pedophilia... to this day? Lumping all Muslims as violent because the news feeds you random images of violence is just plain wrong. Flabby lives there with these people and has attempted to educate this board what a real Muslim is like, and is rebutted with ignorance and propaganda by people that haven't a clue what they are talking about. How many practicing Muslims does each poster know? I want a count.

This has pretty much been said, but I'll re-iterate.

Any religion (in and of itself) should be judged based on its teachings, not the actions of individual people who claim to be its followers. So, just as Christians distance themselves from the crusades by pointing out that they where not consistent with the teachings of the Bible, one should examine what the qu'ran teaches about jihad.

From my understanding, it's not perfectly clear what is taught about jihad. There are passages that state the jihad should be waged against infidels, but the question is how literally that is meant to be read.

Thus, I'd say that the points about Mohamed's example are valid (assuming they are historically true), but pointing to the actions of follows as a reason for disapproval is just as invalid as pointing to \"Christian\" abortion clinic bombers as a reason to disapprove of Christianity. What would be valid would be point out compelling evidence that shows that muslums are instructed to kill people.

Kyouryuu wrote:And Bee... Bee, Bee, Bee... I'm disappointed. Did you actually read the Koran, or are you just going by the selections that O'Reilly provided for you? Because, really, the likelihood that you read and truly understand it are probably about as likely as I understand it - not very. Stop wallowing in the media of your choosing and listen to some opposing viewpoints every now and then. At your age, it behooves you, lest you wish to become a zealot like the very people you whine about.

I never watch talk shows and I do have the Koran, but to "properly understand" it, required me to ignore too much of what is written and unfortunately, practiced. Certain sections like Sura, and what happened to the females in Afghanistan under Islamic law, caused my hatred of this religion to run deep.

Anyway, I promised myself I would control my online temper this year and be a good forum member. My apologies for upsetting you.

Bee

To repeat what I have said over and over, I'm an atheist and have been so since at least age 12. All religion is garbage and belongs in humanity's past.

To be fair, most muslims are not the 'crazies' that you see creating all the pain and death you see in the headlines; HOWEVER the religion itself, ISLAM, the religion of muhammad, commands the true muslim to spread the 'faith' by any means necessary.

The nonbeliever is 'invited' to convert to islam (and I have been so personally by a few of my father's former students when he invited them to dinner one night.) If the nonbeliever refuses to convert, he must pay jizyah to the \"governing muslim authority\"- basically extortion (or 'protection money' like the old mobsters used to call it.) These dhimmi must not practice their unislamic religions openly and cannot open new churches or synagogues, etc or attempt to recruit or convert others unless they wish to incur the wrath of the muslims. They are permanent second-class citizens under islam. If the nonbeliever refuses both \"offers\" then they are to be eliminated by any means necessary.

Most muslims are like most catholics- they don't really practice their religion to the letter. Catholics have abortions and sex out of wedlock and muslims listen to western music and drink booze on occasion. This is the only reason islam seems 'peaceful.' What is bothersome is that the 'crazies' are merely trying to get their brother muslims back in the fold of true islam.

Under islam there are two worlds: dar al-islam and dar al-harb, the house of islam and the house of war, respectively.

The world is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb. The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the \"House of War,\" and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law. The law also provided that the jihad might be interrupted by truces as and when appropriate. In fact, the periods of peace and war were not vastly different from those which existed between the Christian states of Europe for most of European history.

(from: The Multiple Identities of the Middle East http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN= ... canisraeA/ )

The entire NON-muslim world is regarded as the House of War. It is a world that must be conquered and subjugated to the true faith of islam. Sharia must be imposed for it is the law of allah (god).

Flabby, Kyouryuu, you are both in dar al-harb and must become muslim or be subjugated if you want to keep your lives (under the cozy cuddly rule of the true faith of allah.)

Canuck wrote:How many practicing Muslims does each poster know? I want a count.

Roughly, zero.

Now ask me how many practicing Christians do I know?

Roughly, zero.

Willy, the countless families i've met, work with, socialize with, wept, and laughed with that practice Islam, do not condone violence. Continue to watch the media and form an opinion if you want, but you're wrong.

It's also interesting how islam defines \"the innocent.\" Violence against innocents may not be condoned, but you, my friend, are not an \"innocent\" under islam.

Canuck wrote:I don't see that on my news here but I suspect if some Muslim came up with a stuffed camel called Jesus, or wrote a book called "Jesus was just a guy" there would be more than a few Christians offended. And isn't the Catholic Church guilty of hiding and tolerating pedophilia... to this day? Lumping all Muslims as violent because the news feeds you random images of violence is just plain wrong. Flabby lives there with these people and has attempted to educate this board what a real Muslim is like, and is rebutted with ignorance and propaganda by people that haven't a clue what they are talking about. How many practicing Muslims does each poster know? I want a count.

What the christians do or don't do is irrelevant. It's like you are saying "Oh, the Christians have done bad things so Islam must be good"... does that make sense? No one is lumping all Muslims! I am sure there are lots good Muslim people, and since you mention tile setting, I ran a home improvement buisness, I not only did tile work for very good Muslim people but also marble, wood floors, structural work, cabinetry, decks, ETC... and I will tell you they are here mainly to ESCAPE the violence. They come here to practice their own brand of Musliminity, which is why we don't have many problems with them in this country.