How islamophobia really affects people.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:35 pm

Kudos to those who stand up against this kind of prejudice.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:43 pm

That was a great video, but I don’t like how they came down on the people who remained silent…they were prolly just trying to get out of there with their hides.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:03 pm

The 22 are wimps is what they are. They ought to be ashamed (Edit: ashamed personally, not to be confused with shamed publicly).

I like that older guy that stood up for her. Good video.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:18 pm

WOW, I have never seen anything like that but I can tell you I've lived through it. In Quebec, the French are so against the English that I've been refused to be server at a local corner store because I spoke English to them. They would not server me until I spoke
French.

The biggest issue I have with the French Quebec'rs is that they have no issue with other languages. Only English.

In Pte-Claire (Suburb of Montreal) there is a store that has \"Welcome\" in like 40 languages written on it's door. They were in court for years fighting the French Police. The Gov't wanted them to remove the English and make sure the French was 1st on the door and much more prominent.

This sort of discrimination is disgusting. So I can sympathize with the Muslims that get treated like this.

FYI: I am completely bilingual so it's not like I don't speak French, I just choose not to because I was educated in English and prefer that language.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:42 pm

I thought it was a great video, probably the best one I've seen here. I felt deep sympathy for that Muslim girl and disgust for the guy that stood up for the store manager.

I would love to meet someone like her just to talk.

Bee

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:09 pm

I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to the conversation between the Atheist & the devout Muslim.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:02 pm

Ferno's video link with following full disclosure:

Robert Spencer: ABC pushes Islamic victimhood

The perpetrator of this hostility was an actor. The victim was an actor. The whole incident was trumped-up, rendering the significance of the reactions suspect to say the least. ABC could not, you see, count on a veiled Muslim woman encountering hostility anywhere in this U.S. -- otherwise, they could have simply sent her into a few stores and filmed the uncanned reaction. So they had to create an \"Islamophobic\" store clerk as well, to guarantee the outcome they wanted.

Then they highlight the negative reactions with nary a hint that the Muslim community in the U.S. might have the power to change such boorish and hostile reactions -- by being more transparent, by being more honest, by being more specific and forthright in opposing the jihad ideology -- if it indeed does. Obnoxiousness is obnoxiousness, but when people turn on the news and see rage and threats of murder over cartoons, and terrorist act after terrorist act committed in the name of Islam, they aren't blind. They shouldn't react by verbally abusing some random Muslim woman in a store, but the idea that all this is some example of gratuitous racism is ridiculous.

Note also that the \"skyrocketing\" rate of hate crimes against Muslims is largely trumped-up. And of course while ABC's companion piece to this one relies heavily on \"information\" from CAIR, there is no mention of CAIR's unindicted co-conspirator status, or its connections to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, or the convictions of various of its officials on terror-related charges.

\"Witness to Discrimination: What Would You Do? Bystanders Turn Away When Muslim Actor Hired By 'Primetime' Encounters Hostility,\" by Ann Sorkowitz and Julie N. Hays for ABC (thanks to Kemaste):

The Sept. 11 attacks, the Iraq war and suicide bombings worldwide have changed not only the way we live but the way we look at those around us, especially Muslims. \"Islamophobia\" has entered the American vernacular, and the anti-Muslim attitudes and prejudice it describes remain common.

But what if you witnessed \"Islamophobia\" in action and saw someone being victimized because of someone else's prejudices? What would you do?

ABC's production crew outfitted The Czech Stop, a bustling roadside bakery north of Waco, Texas, with hidden cameras and two actors. One played a female customer wearing a traditional Muslim head scarf, or hijab. The other acted as a sales clerk who refused to serve her and spouted common anti-Muslim and anti-Arab slurs.

The polarity of reactions was shocking, from support to seething disapproval. Never did we expect customers to be so passionate or candid.

Our actor, Sabina, walked into the bakery in search of apple strudel. When she reached the counter, an actor posing as a sales clerk was quick to greet her with hateful anti-Muslim language.

\"Get back on the camel and go back to wherever you came from,\" he said. \"You got that towel on your head. I don't know what's underneath your dress. Just please take your business and go elsewhere with it.\"

\"Sir, I am an American, I was born and raised here,\" she said.

The other customers seemed to hear the exchange but they barely looked toward our actors. When no one came to her defense, Sabina made a direct appeal to one customer.

\"Sir, would you mind ordering me an apple strudel? That's why I am here,\" Sabina said.

Though visibly shaken by the hateful words, the man gave Sabina the cold shoulder, completed his purchase, and walked out of the bakery. \"I really think that a person who owns his own business should be able to say who they sell to,\" he said after we told him about the experiment. In fact, it is illegal for public establishments to deny service based on someone's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, according to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Regardless, this man was not the only customer to defend our sales clerk's \"right\" to discriminate.

A Narrowly Defined America

A little while later, Sabina again entered the bakery, and again our sales clerk refused to serve her. This time, one man spoke up, but not on behalf of the Muslim woman. He was adamant that our sales clerk did the right thing. \"She wasn't dressed right,\" he said. \"If I was running the place I'd do the same thing.\" Once again, our sales clerk garnered customer support. After Sabina left the bakery seemingly frustrated and empty-handed, one man thanked the sales clerk for his discriminatory behavior. He then gave our actor a thumbs-up, not once, but twice. Jack Dovidio, a social psychologist at Yale University, said these men seemed to define \"American\" based on the way people look. They connected with the sales clerk and considered our female actor an outsider. \"When we as Americans feel threatened from the outside, we're going to define ourselves in very rigid fashions,\" Dovidio said. \"Either you're with me, and if you're not really one of me, then you must be somebody else who's against me.\"

A Very Different America

The young woman in our experiment was an actor, but many of the hateful words she heard were based on the experiences of Chicago-born Nohayia Javed, who was watching our experiment from the control van. Javed said she has continually suffered verbal abuse and said she has even been physically attacked by fellow Americans just because she is Muslim. \"They always start off with, 'you're a terrorist, Osama-lover, towel-head, camel jockey' on and on,\" Javed said. \"If I tell them I'm American, they're like, 'No you're not. Just because you were born here doesn't make you American.' And I'm like, 'What makes you American?'\"

Javed is not alone. The number of anti-Islamic hate crime incidents in the United States has more than quadrupled from 28 incidents in 2000 to 156 incidents in 2006, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's most recent figures....

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:44 pm

Figured you'd try and detract from this TB. I was waiting for when you would comment.

Here's the thing. I'm not gonna bother with being intellectual, or sarcastic.. or whatever.

No need for that now.

If you figured i was trying to hide something.. you're dead wrong. about as wrong as you can get.

The whole point of the video was to test how the man on the street would react was the point of this video and you've COMPLETELY missed it. I'm sorry you can't get over your hate of muslims to see what's really going on.

Maybe one day a glimmer of understanding will punch through that lead shield you call a brain.

of COURSE it was set up. That was it's aim. to see how people would react.

but hey if you want to go on pretending that I'm somehow some muslim-supporting liberal hippie, you go right ahead. No one is going to listen to you. And while you're at it, you can tell us Galileo was wrong and that the world is flat.

Direct from your (and I use this term loosely) \"response\".. which is nothing more than a regurgitated piece of shiete...

The number of anti-Islamic hate crime incidents in the United States has more than quadrupled from 28 incidents in 2000 to 156 incidents in 2006.

Well.. no shiete. Thanks to extremists that perpetrate that all muslims are evil and the ones you listen to and take their word as gospel, of COURSE there is going to be a rise. DUH!

Get over yourself and look at what's really going on.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:42 am

interesting Video. manipulative but interesting none the less. it really has nothing to do with stereotyping or Muslim hatred as it does with people being sheep and cowardly not wanting to get involved. probably because they are afraid if they do some idiot will pull a gun and shoot them. What strikes me as funny is that you could replace the \"Muslim\" with a \"Christian\" and some people on the very BB would and do react in the same manner as the store owner and some of his patrons.

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:02 am

Yeah Cuda exactly, we are all on the street corners on Sunday mornings waiting to bash 'Christians'. Get the ★■◆● off of yourself...

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:32 am

lol Zurick.. you don't NEED a street corner. It's done here on a regular basis.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:17 am

Zuruck wrote:Yeah Cuda exactly, we are all on the street corners on Sunday mornings waiting to bash 'Christians'. Get the **** off of yourself...

LOL thanks for being the first person to step up as you regularly do Zuruck, you were the chief point of my post.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:09 am

It's like statistics, you can use it to help you rationalize your position if all you want to do is score points in a perpetual argument...

Or you could look at it and realize people are people everywhere. Whether it's in the U.S. or the Middle East you can always find some who are all to willing to hate a different race or religion without much provocation or rationale for their new found hate.

Standing back and simply picking your team from the players in the video does nothing to deal with the issue, at least not if solutions are your goal.

Sure, maybe there is some redneck peckerwood who will see this and realize he's got a case of unfounded hatred brewing inside and check himself...fine.

But that doesn't really help him or anyone else deal with the fact that too many Muslims around the globe are willing to do more than just hate the infidel, they have decided jihad and martyrdom is the way. And too many Americans think it's cool and hip to simply proclaim recognition of the growing jihadi problem as evidence of predjudice and bigotry. The attempt by so many to try and equate the threat posed by fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims is more than just an illogical exercize. Repeating that fallacy has become a political mantra and is dangerous because those leading that chant-for-uninformed-votes are advocating bad policy!

I don't particularly like the fact that the KKK and every other kind of pro-white, pro American faction echoes my concerns, they don't make it easy to get the message across but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand back and do nothing so I can avoid being stereotyped as a hater. Just like so many of you want to blame the people in the video for not speaking up I don't want to be blamed for letting my fellow citizens swallow the leftwing polically correct flavored Kool-aid.

Sure there are haters in America, but they live on both sides of any man made border or debate. What I wish you all could see is, although christians/americans/western civilization et al are not immune to holding predjudice, they generally don't teach their children that anyone of another religion is sub-human and God wants them to terrorize and kill the sub-humans! Nowhere in our public schools do we teach our children there will be no peace on earth until all muslims have converted or have been beheaded. These lessons are all to common in the middle east and it isn't being taught by just a few guys who blew up a few buildings. No wonder it's so easy to find a willing Islami-kazi to blow up infidels...

NEWSFLASH: It's not because we exported McDonalds and MTV! It's not because Jews have banks!
It's because of stone age fundamentalists stirring ★■◆● up so badly over there that it makes Thunderbunny look like Mother Theresa!!!

There is a big difference in that respect between the two factions and some people are trying to just ignore it! And to ignore it simply because some political group encourages it, simply because celebrity morons give you the thumbs up when you applaud them for spouting it is really disgusting.
Grow some balls people! You can be a good democrat, liberal, whatever and still recognize there is fire under that big billowing plume of smoke...
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Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:08 pm

You forget, Will...

They (Ferno included) think that we blew up our own buildings to further the imperialist zionist agenda. It was a bunch of Jews that created 9/11.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:22 pm

No, TB. Very few (and probably no one here) who believe Islamophobia is real and ethically wrong are conspiracy theorists. They just realize it's absurd to lump the dangerous whacko fundamentalists with the rest who claim Allah.

[And before you say it, yes, I know you don't see them as 'real' Muslims if they don't support violence. But those people still certainly get caught up in the dialogue.]

Will Robinson wrote:I don't particularly like the fact that the KKK and every other kind of pro-white, pro American faction echoes my concerns, they don't make it easy to get the message across but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand back and do nothing so I can avoid being stereotyped as a hater.

No one is stereotyping you, Will. You've been pretty clear about the fact that you are against fundamentalist violence, not "everyone who hails as a Muslim".

Will Robinson wrote:Grow some balls people! You can be a good democrat, liberal, whatever and still recognize there is fire under that big billowing plume of smoke...

Agreed!

[sarcasm]And you can be a good conservative, republican, or whatever, without employing sensationalist emotional pictures and video at every turn...[/sarcasm]

--------------

Seriously, everyone. We can talk about this stuff without people yelling "Islamophobe Muslim-hater!" on one side or "Blind Islami-fundamentalist-hugger!" on the other.

... Or at least we should be able to.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:40 pm

ThunderBunny wrote:You forget, Will...

They (Ferno included) think that we blew up our own buildings to further the imperialist zionist agenda. It was a bunch of Jews that created 9/11.

/me smashes head on desk.

dude have you gone completely insane? If you're gonna post crap like this, no one should even bother to respond.

And will; was the picture of ground zero really necessary? I mean come on.

Cuda:

it really has nothing to do with stereotyping or Muslim hatred as it does with people being sheep and cowardly not wanting to get involved.

I couldn't agree more. It's just the decent thing to do to try and stop prejudice everywhere you go.

TheCope · Post by **TheCope** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:48 pm

Will Robinson wrote:I don't particularly like the fact that the KKK and every other kind of pro-white, pro American faction echoes my concerns, they don't make it easy to get the message across but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand back and do nothing so I can avoid being stereotyped as a hater.

To be real about it... posting on the DBB.net isn't really doing anything about anything.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:21 pm

Spidey wrote:I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to the conversation between the Atheist & the devout Muslim.

I don't preach my personal beliefs to "real non-forum" people and I would not make the first move to tell her. However, I would tell her I'm atheist if she asked me and then it would be up to her to decide whether she wanted to girl talk with me. I would have no problem with her because she seemed very nice.

I was also thinking about something else..about the guy who refused to serve the actor in the video and the uproar it caused here on the DBB. The actress in the video certainly didn't look suspicious and I'm sure the store manager knew that too but he did say "How do I know you don't have a bomb under there".

In the mideast, it's been Muslim women that have exploded themselves in supermarkets by bombs they carry under their clothes, so how much caution should the store owner use "over there" on whom they serve?

Would the mideast store owner be over reacting?
How much caution do the Israeli's use? Why is it bad for us to do it?

Bettina

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:47 pm

TheCope wrote:To be real about it... posting on the DBB.net isn't really doing anything about anything.

I absolutely agree with TheCope, we should do something. Which is why I propose that we Descenters band together, go over there and nab Osama Bin Ladin, then divide the $50,000,000 dollar reward up amongst ourselves! We'll demand it in Gold.

We'll also demand $1,000,000 dollars a head for any of his cronies.

Who's with me? Foil, you're the most level-headed, you take point. Maybe they'll listen to reason and we won't have to waste our (Barry's) ammo (at best we can convince them that they can't really understand the Koran for themselves). Ferno, you'll be in charge of the white flag, just in case. If we get caught in a stand-off, Lothar or Drakona (or both--God help the opposing side) can wear them down with some 5-page equivalent verbal treatises. Will can wield the chain-gun or demolitions, his choice. Finally, in case of negotiations, Roid can represent humanity.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:22 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:
TheCope wrote:To be real about it... posting on the DBB.net isn't really doing anything about anything.
I absolutely agree with TheCope, we should do something. Which is why I propose that we Descenters band together, go over there and nab Osama Bin Ladin, then divide the $50,000,000 dollar reward up amongst ourselves! We'll demand it in Gold.

We'll also demand $1,000,000 dollars a head for any of his cronies.

Who's with me? Foil, you're the most level-headed, you take point. Maybe they'll listen to reason and we won't have to waste our (Barry's) ammo (at best we can convince them that they can't really understand the Koran for themselves). Ferno, you'll be in charge of the white flag, just in case. If we get caught in a stand-off, Lothar or Drakona (or both--God help the opposing side) can wear them down with some 5-page equivalent verbal treatises. Will can wield the chain-gun or demolitions, his choice. Finally, in case of negotiations, Roid can represent humanity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:52 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:
TheCope wrote:To be real about it... posting on the DBB.net isn't really doing anything about anything.
I absolutely agree with TheCope, we should do something. Which is why I propose that we Descenters band together, go over there and nab Osama Bin Ladin, then divide the $50,000,000 dollar reward up amongst ourselves! We'll demand it in Gold.

We'll also demand $1,000,000 dollars a head for any of his cronies.

Who's with me? Foil, you're the most level-headed, you take point. Maybe they'll listen to reason and we won't have to waste our (Barry's) ammo (at best we can convince them that they can't really understand the Koran for themselves). Ferno, you'll be in charge of the white flag, just in case. If we get caught in a stand-off, Lothar or Drakona (or both--God help the opposing side) can wear them down with some 5-page equivalent verbal treatises. Will can wield the chain-gun or demolitions, his choice. Finally, in case of negotiations, Roid can represent humanity.

Discussion over. Sergeant Throne wins by a landslide!

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:20 pm

That was awesome, Thorne!

That one may deserve a nomination for one of the 'Classic DBB Posts of 2008'...

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:35 pm

TheCope wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:I don't particularly like the fact that the KKK and every other kind of pro-white, pro American faction echoes my concerns, they don't make it easy to get the message across but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand back and do nothing so I can avoid being stereotyped as a hater.
To be real about it... posting on the DBB.net isn't really doing anything about anything.

Who knows, maybe one of the young people here will lead his people to the land of common sense instead of marching in lock step to the beat of pop cultures drummer.

PS: For those concerned about the effect of showing the picture,

1) It was an after thought from having just typed the "fire under the smoke" thing. i thought it was kind of cheesy but it worked for me

2) Are you afraid the image stirs emotion? Because if it does remember it is not some fabricated photochop or exaggerated rhetorical tool used to equivocate....like comparing Eric Rudolph's orginazation of Christian terrorists to Muhammed Atta's group al Queda is...

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:51 pm

I thought the pic was pretty cool Will. I had never seen that angle before. Thanks for putting it up.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:37 pm

Sergeant Thorne, your post made my day!

As has been pointed out before, both extremes are wrong.

It's stupid to just blindly close your eyes to the problems Islam is having.

BUT, on the other extreme, people who believe that Muslims can't be Americans, and that mistreating them just because they are Muslim is ok, are acting on the same principles the Islamic Fascists do. You identify your enemy with a very broad definition, and then treat everyone who matches that definition as less than human.

TheCope · Post by **TheCope** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:10 pm

Will Robinson wrote:Who knows, maybe one of the young people here will lead his people to the land of common sense instead of marching in lock step to the beat of pop cultures drummer.

I got ya Will. Stingray certainly "didn't sit back and take it"... and he was the best mod this place ever had. I wasn't taking a shot at you in particular.

I just get sick of the bravado from some of these people. They just type and don't do a damn thing about anything - just blah blah blah away - much less join the Army and actually do something. It just gets pathetic.

Have any of you people ever used public transit or left your farm town more than twice a year?

I mean really. Blogs ain't ★■◆●.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:24 pm

It’s a discussion group for crying out loud, not a Star Chamber.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:45 pm

rofl, Thorne, that was great.

Ferno wrote:Figured you'd try and detract from this TB. I was waiting for when you would comment.

I'm glad he posted that, because it gives great insight to the intent. Don't forget that TB isn't against moderate Islam, he's against the Islamic nutjobs, and the ridiculousness that other governments display in the hypocritical PC treatment of both side of Islam.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:39 am

nice sum-up Test. I think most people ..well a lot of folks fall into that \"catagory.\"

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:20 am

Testiculese wrote:I'm glad he posted that, because it gives great insight to the intent. Don't forget that TB isn't against moderate Islam, he's against the Islamic nutjobs, and the ridiculousness that other governments display in the hypocritical PC treatment of both side of Islam.

oh really?

Lately, sure. but earlier? nope.

White flag? LOL. damn boy, you sure don't get out much.

BTW. OBL's been dead for about four years now. maybe more.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:15 am

Did I miss something? I thought Bin Laden was still at large.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:35 am

well looks like Ferno is privy to information the rest of the world knows nothing about

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:01 pm

He's using the Bush Logic of \"Iraq has WMDs\".

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:06 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:

Did I miss something? I thought Bin Laden was still at large.

sure did. A Pakistani newspaper ran a story about his funeral. died from kidney failure i believe.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:13 pm

Ferno wrote:
Sergeant Thorne wrote:

Did I miss something? I thought Bin Laden was still at large.
sure did. A Pakistani newspaper ran a story about his funeral. died from kidney failure i believe.

I'm sorry but that would of made headline news here.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:23 pm

CDN_Merlin wrote:
Ferno wrote:
Sergeant Thorne wrote:

Did I miss something? I thought Bin Laden was still at large.
sure did. A Pakistani newspaper ran a story about his funeral. died from kidney failure i believe.
I'm sorry but that would of made headline news here.

Not if the fear mongering rightwing who controls the all the media doesn't want to give up their bogeyman!!!
Right guys?
Oops,now I've done it.... got to go, black helicopter circling the house....

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:29 pm

Yea really, you can't continue to lie your ass off if everyone knows your alibi is dead...

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:17 pm

CDN_Merlin wrote:I'm sorry but that would of made headline news here.

now ask yourself why it didn't.

source suprised me too, mainly because of the sheer irony.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:33 pm

Sorry but I don't believe FOX news and I won't believe Pakistan news. Neither are credible. And if this is the only source? Blah. Also, without having a NATOish group seeing him and verifying it's him, then it's just a ploy to make us think he's dead and you fell for it.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:16 pm

figured you'd do a google search yourself.. *shrug*

Why do you say you won't believe pakistani news?

Here's the thing. They can pretty much find anyone they want. Capone, mafia dons, child molesters, all the 'number two' taliban guys, all the 9/11 guys, etc. out of all the bad guys in the world, they somehow can't find this guy.

Think about it.

split!

How islamophobia really affects people.

How islamophobia really affects people.

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