DescentBB

We were discussing the Divinity of Christ at family worship last night. The topic turned to all of the various different interpretations that are out there and, naturally, the Jehovah's Witnesses came up as a representative of the Aryan point of view.

My son (9) was asking for more details about what the JW's believed, and, since I've had some JW friends, I was able to explain some of the basic theology. BUT, my wife brought up a story that raised a question I was unable to answer.

When my wife was pregnant with our son, the Doctor told us that she was very likely to loose the baby. Needless to say, we had lots of people praying for us throughout the entire pregnancy. One afternoon, many months into the pregnancy, a pair of JW's came to the door.

During the discussion at the door, my wife mentioned the risk of losing our baby and requested that the JW's pray for her. Their response was immediate shock, almost a look of fear, and a very quick and immediate retreat to their car. Not the usual behavior for a pair of JW missionaries at all.

I know we have a few people here with Jehovah Witness backgrounds, and I was hoping that perhaps someone could explain this to me. Is there some JW doctrine that forbids praying for or with people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses?

Disclaimer: i still use JW termanology accidentally, they may have slipped into the post.
\"the Truth\" means the JW religion.
\"Witnesses\" mean JWs.
\"the wild beast\" i think is a bible term, you should all know that one .



i guess - i've never heard of any witness being asked that before, i certainly wasn't.
moreoften we get it from the other side of the coin - people would tell us that they'd pray for us. That always annoyed me (you may see why below, as i talk about how JWs treat interfaith).

The reaction they gave was surprising. Perhaps they thought you were asking them to pray, right there with you, in some kindof interfaith prayer circle? Who were the Witnesses? Were they teens, young, old, male/female, a married couple?

Because i've been outof it so long, by now I honestly dunno how i'd expect a JW to react anymore.

But if i were bitter, i might say something a little like this:


well... everyone else is going to die in armageddon in God's wrath. You, your baby. All that matters, the only thing that matters, is that you become a JW. Only then will you and your baby be safe forever.

the witnesses take very seriously the \"the lukewarm water is vomited from your mouth, as it is neither hot nor cold\" passage, and also the wild beasts of revelation, especially the red one rode by the harlot signifying false religion (iirc). They are very much against mixing religious beliefs. Note their firm stands against Christmas and other holidays with Pagan origins. They would also be more likely to perhaps scoff at other religions that do NOT maintain strict inter-religious boundaries.

I have a strong memory of discussing a kindof religious peace festival that was held in the 1980s iirc, lots of ppl from all religions get together and pray for world peace. It's a big cooperation.
I recall this event as \"all these people are actually all praying to Satan\". It's a real US vs The World thing. Everyone who isn't a Witness, although they think they are worshiping in separate churches, they are unknowingly part of a huge singular satanic conspiracy - Satan is actually behind every OTHER religion but ours.

So we would see prayer - from your point of view - to be as foreign to us as sacrificing a chicken to the volcano God.
The only way - ONLY way - that God would grant you a favour, would be as part of a plan to bring you into my religion. It's the only thing that matters. Then it'd be another one of those miraclulous stories we hear at JW conventions - how some heathen asked us to pray for him, and we were shocked, but it showed his heart was in the right place, and then money rained from the sky and he bought a bus and went preaching in it, cowabunga.




As for suprising things that witnesses have done at the door.... i remember someone i knew, going door to door and meeting someone who looked really freaked out they were there. They stood staring at eachother for a few beats, then the Witness leaned forward and said very deliberately... \"you're demonised... arn't you\", and continued glaring at the householder, while she seemed to get even more distressed.
The witness beleived honestly that the householder was possessed, just a feeling. Lol. From my athiest POV now, and knowing what i know about anxiety disorders.... that's pretty fuckin messed up.
But we had to deal with demon possession stuff a bit, i've heard numerous stories, some close to home. It's something that puts shivers up the backs of most witnesses i recon, to them it's very real and understood - to the extent that they know what howto deal with it (and yeah we did deal with it a few times, fuckin polterguist stuff).

Thanks, roid.

That actually clears up one of the things I've wondered about, regarding the perspective of Jehovah's Witnesses about Christians. I wasn't aware that everyone outside the JW church is considered to be a part of a global Satanic conspiracy, even unwittingly.

So, just so I understand, you think it might have been the fact that the proposed prayer was between different faiths that made the JWs uncomfortable (in Kilarin's post)?

Thank you indeed roid. This might explain it.

[edit] My wife just clarified, they were two middle aged females.

Roid, a quick question if i might. you don't need to answer if you don't want. When you left the JW church, how were you treated?

I ask because I read a local article a number of years back that focused on a man who left the local group and was basically blackballed by many in the community (the city, not church) It was difficult to find a job and he was actively sought out and harassed. Did you experience anything like that? ( i seriously hope not.)

Blackballed by the CITY? that's weird. No i havn't experienced anything like that, and i wouldn't expect it, unless maybe there were a lot of JWs around in high places or something with a personal grudge (ie: they feel betrayed).

we get blackballed by the church, and all church members, even family members (although this is upto individual interpretation). It can be rather brutal, i did it to some close friends when i was young - So karmicly i think i prettymuch deserve whatever i get.

As i was beginning to question things in the church, i was afraid of what my friends would think of me (rocking the boat), i was expecting to be cutoff by all my friends, so in my paranoia i preempted it and started to cut myself off from everyone anyway. Which ended up being Agoraphobia.

It was as part of my getting treatment for this, that i was able to realize what was causing it. So that's when i finally left the religion.
I cut MYSELF off from everyone anyway. I didn't want to experience the direct pain of someone i cared about outright rejecting me to my face.
I don't really know if i'm officially disfellowshipped or "not an approved associate" (as i was never baptised, i can't really be disfellowshipped - but it's the same thing) or what. They announce such things at church, i'm hesitant to think about it.

Foil wrote:So, just so I understand, you think it might have been the fact that the proposed prayer was between different faiths that made the JWs uncomfortable (in Kilarin's post)?

Witnesses don't exactly run away from the door, it's strange. Given how you explained the situation I don't know why they would do that. I'm really reaching for an explanation. Maybe they suddenly realized you were a Do-Not-Call and realized they shouldn't be there. Or they thought you were suggesting an interfaith prayer (and they didn't know howto explain to you that wouldn't be appropriate so they paniced and left). Maybe they were late for something, or needed to goto the toilet? Maybe there's something missing from the story.
It's not something i'd expect a JW to run away from, so i'm tipping there's something more to the story we're unaware of. Sounds like one of those "you had to be there" kinda things

Thanks Roid. One thing I should make a bit more clear. The guy i mentioned was blackballed by the \"town\" as it were only because the JW is an tightly woven through the business sector. I was kinda hoping it was something that was rare. ...but ..*shrug* The article did mention about the shunning by members.

Odd, my step bro went through something similar as you growing up and out of the Mormon church.

On a side note. In my early 20's I answered the door in nothing but a bathrobe (as I was JUST getting into the shower) and this woman and gal about my age started talking to me about the weather and my lawn (my Dad's lawn really), I honestly thought they were going to offer to cut the grass.. but then she said:\".. but we're the Jehovah Witness Church, but you probably already knew that.\" ....*blink*.... I said no and the about ran over each other getting off my porch. (after the politely said good bye)

roid wrote: Maybe there's something missing from the story.

Nothing else my wife can remember on her side of the story, but you have a very good point, who knows what was going on with them at the time. Could have been all kinds of things.

But:

roid wrote:Or they thought you were suggesting an interfaith prayer (and they didn't know howto explain to you that wouldn't be appropriate so they paniced and left).

This would be my guess. Again, thank you for the insights! I didn't mean to drag up a bunch of painful old memories for anyone.

Duper wrote:Thanks Roid. One thing I should make a bit more clear. The guy i mentioned was blackballed by the "town" as it were only because the JW is an tightly woven through the business sector. I was kinda hoping it was something that was rare. ...but ..*shrug* The article did mention about the shunning by members.

Odd, my step bro went through something similar as you growing up and out of the Mormon church.

i guess it's one of those "keep it in the family" mafia type things. Because the JW religion is so socially controlling of it's members - they stick together.
It can be difficult for normal non-JWs to draw solid lines between business, friendship and religion. As part of the socially controlling nature of the JW religion - Witnesses do NOT separate friendship from religion, they are one and the same, you don't make close friendships with non-JWs. So, add this to the normal difficulties of separating business from friendship, and you have an easy recipe for religious-preferential business relationships. With JWs preferring to do business with other JWs and giving eachother good deals etc, i understand this is not uncommon for many religions though. But with the shunning aspect of JW doctrine, it can become touchy. Some JWs will refuse to even say hello to ex-JWs. Juggling that kindof viewpoint with normal business/client relationship demands may be impossible - i can see them refusing to do business with them.
Ex-JWs are not just ignorant like normal people (ie: possible converts), they have willfully chosen their path to side against God. That makes them like enemy combatants.

On a side note. In my early 20's I answered the door in nothing but a bathrobe (as I was JUST getting into the shower) and this woman and gal about my age started talking to me about the weather and my lawn (my Dad's lawn really), I honestly thought they were going to offer to cut the grass.. but then she said:".. but we're the Jehovah Witness Church, but you probably already knew that." ....*blink*.... I said no and the about ran over each other getting off my porch. (after the politely said good bye)

iirc i've had some guys answer the door naked

roid wrote:Because the JW religion is so socially controlling of it's members - they stick together.

An uncle of mine and his family are JWs. I watched my cousin get treated very poorly by them and their community. She was raped when she was 15 and neither the family nor the community did anything about it. They all blamed her. It really messed her up psychologically. She struggled for years after that. She has since left the church and was ostracized by her family for it.

Over the years she has told us some pretty strange tails of how she was treated (apart from the rape incident), and I don't know if I ever truly believed her.

she may find use of these websites, dedicated to support of JW rape victims and tryign to raise awareness:
http://www.silentlambs.org/
http://www.lambsroar.org/

honestly as a JW i never heard of any of this stuff, and was quite shocked at the lengths they must have gone to to hush it up. Shutup and drink your cool-aid .
(JWs are not allowed to read this kindof stuff... social control, reliant on ignorance)
And they still like to lambast the Catholic church for their child abuse history, hypocrites.

I can’t speak intelligently about ALL JWs because I only have my uncles family as an example (although I have worked with a few others and they seem to fit a pattern). But my uncle’s kids are all pitifully ignorant of the ways of the world outside of the Kingdom Hall. They always lived in these very isolated communities in California. I always thought that it was because they were poor, but maybe they just wanted to stay isolated from all but their own.