3 Questions: what do you Believe/Wish/Fear happens withdeath

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:23 am

Three questions:

1. What do you BELIEVE happens after you die?
2. What do you WISH happens after you die?
3. What do you FEAR happens after you die?

i'll start it off:
1. Nothing (void)
2. I'm immediately woken up by a doctor saying \"oh hi, we just cured death\"
3. Nothing (void)

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:49 am

roid wrote:Three questions:

1. What do you BELIEVE happens after you die?
2. What do you WISH happens after you die?
3. What do you FEAR happens after you die?

i'll start it off:
1. Nothing (void)
2. I'm immediately woken up by a doctor saying "oh hi, we just cured death"
3. Nothing (void)

1. I have no idea what happens after I die. It seems like everything would turn black if you think logically. Emotionally, the consciousness we have now, it would seem wierd for it to go poof, and to be black, so that points in another direction.
-After having a theological discussion about human innocense with my girlfriend, and then seeing her stepping on a cockroach later that day, I often think of the consciousness of that roach, and what would happen to it assuming there is more after you die; is it excluded from the picture, or does it get included in some way (in fact, what would happen to my girlfriend, after all she just murdered a living being, would she be punished)?
-In terms of evolution, if humans are the only ones in the big picture, when would Apes and Humans be seperate? What happens in the future, when humans have evolved beyond what they are, what would happen to the evolved humans and the afterlife?
-Is there a form of compensation for bad things or actocities? What if they didn't know they were doing something evil or cruel (like lets say my girlfriend killed that bug accidentaly, and was the only thing she ever killed, what would happen?)
-Continuing on the killing thing, what about animals killing to get food, what would that count as? Since they are programmed to kill other creatures, would this be forgiven? How would the victims be payed off?

These questions of course are not to be answered by a Christian, as I already know the answers a Christian would give (heaven & hell, bugs and animals don't count, etc)

2. I wish that I get to spend forever in eternal bliss with my love and girlfriend. Life isn't worth living without her.

3. Nothing (void)

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:12 am

Dakatsu wrote:These questions of course are not to be answered by a Christian, as I already know the answers a Christian would give (heaven & hell, bugs and animals don't count, etc)

Nonononono, you might find their answers boring but that's just you.

Doesn't matter. My view is probably shared by a lot of Transhumanists out there, and may be considered boring to some. Doesn't matter.
I'm interested.

Everyone post.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:50 am

1) Nothing
2) That there would be a Space Bar to press so I could re-spawn
3) That there will be some cloven hoof beast with red horns spawn camping me

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:50 am

1. What do you BELIEVE happens after you die?

Torn between we exist as souls (ghosts) in another realm or nothing.

2. What do you WISH happens after you die?

Live the life you've always wanted to live without consequences. Meaning everything happens like you would of wanted it to happen in eral life.

3. What do you FEAR happens after you die?

Don't really care, I'll be dead. I won't feel a thing.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:07 am

Believe: Afterlife, the chance to spend the \"rest of eternity\" (which I've always found to be a curious phrase) with God and others.

Wish: That the afterlife will not just be a place of mindless happiness or worship (as some believe), but that we will get to spend eons learning about the universe, talking, spending time getting to know each other in ways that we never could while we were here.

Fear: That there's actually nothing.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:00 am

1. Nothing. All electrical impulses cease, and so do you.

2. Nothing. Eternity is eternity. You can only do things for a few hundred million years before it turns into agony of just existing. (I would love to be able to watch the universe work at something like 1 second = 100,000 years from any reference point (a few million miles away from a black hole, somewhere nearby when a star goes supernova, etc) and able to travel to any point in the universe instantly)

3. That there is a god and I'm forever stuck with 10-20 billion stupid, arrogant, self-righteous pricks that have made life miserable on this planet for thousands of years.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:00 am

Foil wrote:Believe: Afterlife, the chance to spend the "rest of eternity" (which I've always found to be a curious phrase) with God and others.

Wish: That the afterlife will not just be a place of mindless happiness or worship (as some believe), but that we will get to spend eons learning about the universe, talking, spending time getting to know each other in ways that we never could while we were here.

Fear: That there's actually nothing.

I believe much like Foil does on this matter. The Afterlife I believe contains a lot of learning and includes experiences (and work) that frankly we can't understand as we are at this moment. Heaven is ... Heaven. Logically, in order to be "Heaven" it cannot be a mindless peaceful happiness ... but what it is I don't think we can fully understand or grasp (and I don't think we're meant to).

Fear: Yeah, fear that there's actually nothing, but pretty sure that's not the case. (that's where Faith comes in, right?)

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:23 am

Testiculese wrote:1. Nothing. All electrical impulses cease, and so do you.

2. Nothing. Eternity is eternity. You can only do things for a few hundred million years before it turns into agony of just existing. (I would love to be able to watch the universe work at something like 1 second = 100,000 years from any reference point (a few million miles away from a black hole, somewhere nearby when a star goes supernova, etc) and able to travel to any point in the universe instantly)

3. That there is a god and I'm forever stuck with 10-20 billion stupid, arrogant, self-righteous pricks that have made life miserable on this planet for thousands of years.

You want to be Q then?

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:20 am

Will Robinson wrote:1) Nothing
2) That there would be a Space Bar to press so I could re-spawn
3) That there will be some cloven hoof beast with red horns spawn camping me

ROFL. Thats priceless

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:02 pm

What's Q?

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:05 pm

Star Trek The Next Generation and Star Trek Voyager.

Q was an omnipotent being who knew everything and could do everything. Everyone in their species was called Q. At the snap of a finger, they could bring you to any single moment in time, space wether in the future or in the past anywhere in the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek)

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:07 pm

Testiculese wrote:What's Q?

I saw on my IB papers I have to turn in to select courses, a Q represents you get a full point extra for your weighted GPA.

Maybe he means life is based on a GPA, and he want's quality points

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:13 pm

Then yes, that would be cool for a while. Maybe a few billion years...But then what would I do after all the stars are burnt out, all the material has been sucked into black holes, and those holes evaporated?

Booooorrrrriiiinnnnggggg.

Eternity sucks, no one would want it if they had it. People just THINK they want it because they will never have it. Just like the 5yo and the cookie.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:51 pm

1. You rejoin the cosmic consciousness
2. Get a Long Long Rest.
3. To be reborn in a totally impoverished country in Africa.

But sorry Roid, we didn’t cure old age or pain…

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:03 pm

1-Nothing. I was dead before I was born and I'm going back there.

2-Nirvana- There is no time so there is no boredom. All things are one, all time is one.

3- Do it all again, except this time you know what is coming.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:23 pm

1.Warmth. Like a warm blanket out of a drier. Light and water that is a living entity. (I don't really expect anyone to get this nor can I really explain). I expect to smile and continue existing in the presence of my God. ... what I do in that time after? Absolutely no clue, but I can bet it won't be boring. Boring people get bored.

...i might even learn to enjoy playing football. .. I'm sure my grandpa and Dad will see to that!

2. I don't \"wish\" anything. I know whatever i meet when I die will exceed what I could wish for or imagine.

3. Fear? I don't. I'm a bit nervous perhaps about dying but only like I was when I went into the Air Force. It was a major change in my life and I was young. .. but real fear? nope. To live is Christ, to die is gain.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:15 pm

roid wrote:Three questions:

1. What do you BELIEVE happens after you die?
2. What do you WISH happens after you die?
3. What do you FEAR happens after you die?

1. Nothing. Sleep for eternity without dreams.
2. Since I believe that universes are constantly being created and destroyed in an endless void, I wish that a new adventure awaits me.
3. That the bible God exists.

Bee

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:29 pm

**What I BELIEVE happens after death:
To begin with, Nothing. The dead are dead and have no knowledge or experience:
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Eccl 9:5,6,10 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

But after the second coming Jesus will raise the dead:
John 5:28,29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those who rejected Christ's sacrifice will be granted eternal DESTRUCTION.
Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die
Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Note that that is not eternal torment and torture for the wicked, but eternal non-entity. They want nothing to do with God, but God maintains their very existence, and the only way to grant their wish is to withdraw from them entirely, which is death.

Those who accepted Christ's sacrifice will be granted eternal life.
1Cor 15:51-53 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I do not pretend that I understand exactly what this immortal beatific state will be like, but I don't need to know the details. We will be with our Lord, and that will make it good. I think we are given some good glimpses into what the resurected life will be like. After Christ's resurrection He still had a body that could be touched, and still ate. Other Bible texts indicate that we will be happy, fulfilled, and productive. I expect to meet friends and loved ones, finally have a garden where the plants survive

, and to spend a good portion of eternity attempting to understand the details of Quantum Mechanics. But I understand that my expectations about Heaven are based on a very flawed and limited viewpoint. What God is planning is bigger and better than anything we can imagine. So I'm happy to just wait and see.

**What I WISH would happen after death:
To find myself on God's side and in His presence.

**What I FEAR might happen after death:
Actually, I'm not afraid that I might be wrong about what happens after death. It's not that I never have any doubts, but if I AM wrong, and there is no resurrection, then I'll never KNOW I'm wrong, so what's to be afraid of?

I do believe that my final fate depends upon my own choice, so I guess the closest we can come to "fear" is the fear that I will make (am making) the wrong choice. That I could choose to put my own selfish nature first and reject Christ's gift of salvation. I'm not actually afraid of being punished for such a choice, but I don't want to find that I've become something I detest. I don't want to find myself on the side of evil. And above all, I don't want to disappoint my savior.

But it's not like I live in terror of this. It's all about my own choice. In the end, I WILL get what I want. Christ's sacrifice is freely offered. All I have to do is take it. The ONLY way to fail is to CHOOSE to fail. So as long as I am willing to surrender self to Christ, there is nothing TO fear.

My favorite C. S. Lewis quote on this topic:

C. S. Lewis wrote:There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' All that are in Hell chose it.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:34 pm

Bet51987 wrote: 3. That the bible God exists.

I think that might actually make you agnostic not atheist.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:20 pm

Spidey wrote:
Bet51987 wrote: 3. That the bible God exists.
I think that might actually make you agnostic not atheist.

yup

Wings · Post by **Wings** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:28 pm

1. What do you BELIEVE happens after you die?
2. What do you WISH happens after you die?
3. What do you FEAR happens after you die?

1. I have no idea, I dont believe in a god, but I don't shut out the idea of being a conscious presence doing something somewhere. I think there's something after, I'm just not sure what. We got here somehow, we're definitely more than just electrical and chemical reactions or there wouldn't be
consciousness.

2. That we're somewhat like Q (as described above) but that we can still have contact with eachother or any other beings that might also be floating around.

3. I don't fear nothingness, I'm surprised most of you put that. It's silly to fear nothingness, you don't experience anything. My fear is being alone for eternity.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:29 pm

roid wrote:Three questions:

1. What do you BELIEVE happens after you die?
2. What do you WISH happens after you die?
3. What do you FEAR happens after you die?

1. We take on a new form.
2. Eternal bliss.
3. Eternal pain.

roid · Post by **roid** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:38 am

Wings wrote:3. I don't fear nothingness, I'm surprised most of you put that. It's silly to fear nothingness, you don't experience anything. My fear is being alone for eternity.

It's not the experience of nothingness than i fear. It's the practical finality of it. It's perhaps the ultimate form of 'fear of loss'.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:29 am

roid wrote:It's not the experience of nothingness than i fear. It's the practical finality of it. It's perhaps the ultimate form of 'fear of loss'.

VERY good point!

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:15 am

Fear of the unknown is what people are afraid of.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Spidey wrote:
Bet51987 wrote: 3. That the bible God exists.
I think that might actually make you agnostic not atheist.

I was referencing the old testament God. If that thing existed, I would fear it. But actually I don't believe in any creator.

roid wrote:It's not the experience of nothingness than i fear. It's the practical finality of it. It's perhaps the ultimate form of 'fear of loss'.

Why? Did you fear the eternity before you were born?

Life is already nothing. Pretend your life was a yardstick. Paint the first 12 inches black to represent the nothing before you were born. Paint the next 12 inches white to represent your life. Then paint the last 12 inches black to represent the nothing after death. But, since you won't have any memories, you might as well paint the white part black too.

Bee

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:16 pm

Bet51987 wrote:Life is already nothing. Pretend your life was a yardstick. Paint the first 12 inches black to represent the nothing before you were born. Paint the next 12 inches white to represent your life. Then paint the last 12 inches black to represent the nothing after death. But, since you won't have any memories, you might as well paint the white part black too.

Bee

This is exactly what I am afraid of, that any and everything we do here now is of no purpose. I am not a religious person, but I would rather go to hell for not accepting Christ than have no afterlife.

The scary part is losing your memories. Why live if you won't even take anything with you, not even the memories of your life?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:23 pm

Scary huh? Why do you think people invented religion.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:56 pm

I find this the most interesting point in this topic:

Wings wrote:It's silly to fear nothingness, you don't experience anything.

Dakatsu wrote:The scary part is losing your memories. Why live if you won't even take anything with you, not even the memories of your life?

What is it that people (including me) recoil from the idea that there is nothing in the afterlife?

Logically, it can't be that we're afraid that we'll somehow know or feel disappointment; because if it were true, we wouldn't be there to know or feel anything.

Or is it something like what roid said, that's it's not any kind of experience we fear, but the concept of ultimate finality and loss of ourselves?

Personally, I'd have to say the latter. I've heard people say that it's a comfort to them to believe there's no afterlife, but that seems pretty foreign to me. It would be fairly discomforting for me if I believed that there was no afterlife, because it would imply that there is nothing ultimately meaningful about my life now.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:08 pm

Foil wrote:Or is it something like what roid said, that's it's not any kind of experience we fear, but the concept of ultimate finality and loss of ourselves?

Personally, I'd have to say the latter.

Why is it when I write a post and I mean to say something, I end up spending two paragraphs, when Foil said what I was trying to say in about three sentences?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:11 pm

Happens to me all the time, too, Dakatsu. There's always someone who can articulate things better than we can.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:20 pm

Foil wrote: Personally, I'd have to say the latter. I've heard people say that it's a comfort to them to believe there's no afterlife, but that seems pretty foreign to me. It would be fairly discomforting for me if I believed that there was no afterlife, because it would imply that there is nothing ultimately meaningful about my life now.

I think that’s because your religion has much to do with the afterlife, so you see life through that prism.

Actually I would think just the opposite, Nothing in the afterlife would make life that much more special.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:44 pm

Foil wrote:...It would be fairly discomforting for me if I believed that there was no afterlife, because it would imply that there is nothing ultimately meaningful about my life now.

If you didn't believe in an afterlife it would actually make the life you have now, much more meaningful. You would appreciate things more; you would love things more. I certainly do which is why I never fight with my dad because I know we won't see each other after death.

It's funny how the atheist is in no rush to die while many of those in the mideast can't wait.

Bee

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:24 pm

Bet51987 wrote:
Foil wrote:...It would be fairly discomforting for me if I believed that there was no afterlife, because it would imply that there is nothing ultimately meaningful about my life now.
If you didn't believe in an afterlife it would actually make the life you have now, much more meaningful. You would appreciate things more; you would love things more.

Interesting. From my perspective, this life has no real meaning without an afterlife. But from yours, an afterlife would take away from the meaning of this one.

Although I don't share it, I'm certainly familiar with that perspective. I've had Christian friends who have said things like, "Well, this life doesn't really matter much, eternity is the important one".

I completely disagree with them, of course. From my view, my belief in eternity is what makes this life so important! After all, I believe that God Himself came to live and die with us in this life.

You believe that a faith in an afterlife would lend itself toward an excuse to not love or procrastinate in this life. Maybe it does for some people, but I don't think that's generally the case.

From my experience, a belief that nothing happens is what lends itself to apathy. Personally, if I didn't believe in an afterlife, I'd love people less.

---------------

So maybe a better question, then, is: "Do you believe our life here has meaning? If so, why? If not, why not?"

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:42 pm

Foil wrote:my belief in eternity is what makes this life so important! After all, I believe that God Himself came to live and die with us in this life.

Well said!

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:47 pm

Foil wrote:...So maybe a better question, then, is: "Do you believe our life here has meaning? If so, why? If not, why not?"

Of course it does. For example, I have meaning to my dad and my friends and they have meaning to me. I also have purpose when I perform in church or watch the kids in the pool when my park job starts. Everyone has some meaning and purpose.

Bee

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:50 pm

Kilarin wrote:
Foil wrote:my belief in eternity is what makes this life so important! After all, I believe that God Himself came to live and die with us in this life.
Well said!

Couldn't I go out on a limb and say that religious feelings of living eternally is more out of selfishness and greed?

Just messing around..

Bee

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:36 pm

Bet51987 wrote:
Foil wrote:...It would be fairly discomforting for me if I believed that there was no afterlife, because it would imply that there is nothing ultimately meaningful about my life now.
If you didn't believe in an afterlife it would actually make the life you have now, much more meaningful. You would appreciate things more; you would love things more.

Sounds a lot like "Eat, Drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die." though I don't think that's how you consider it. You consider it to be a deeper appreciation than that.

From my point of view, not continuing to exist after death makes life extremely pointless. Quite possibly the most depressing thing I could think of.

Also, continuing to exist after death logically means that life has a purpose and a meaning, profound and extremely important. It also logically means there is something before life. Accepting the possibility of life before birth and life after birth also logically gives reason to so much that science struggles to explain about the existance of mankind and life.

Foil wrote:So maybe a better question, then, is: "Do you believe our life here has meaning? If so, why? If not, why not?"

Absolutely, Life has purpose and meaning. Why do I believe so? Every time I look into the eyes of my children, joy fills my soul knowing their presence is not a waste, makes me smile thinking of the memories of every moment of their lives from birth to present and it keeps me going thinking about all that will yet be during life. ... Speaking of birth, when my first child was born, I knew (I already knew, but I really knew then) that life is more than just this time each of us are alive. Much, much more.

My opinion.

P.S. Foil, Congrats on your upcoming family expansion.

How much time of "the easy life" do you have remaining?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:46 pm

TechPro wrote:P.S. Foil, Congrats on your upcoming family expansion. How much time of "the easy life" do you have remaining?

Thanks! And about four months or so. Hopefully I can get the chance to post maybe once a month after that.

3 Questions: what do you Believe/Wish/Fear happens withdeath

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