DescentBB

THIS GUY thinks so.

An interesting read, but personally I think he's jumping the gun by one gen. He has some valid points and there has been some real ripples going through the industry about piracy. Time will tell and I think he had a good glimpse of it.

You still can't beat the easy of use with consoles. You put a game in and it plays. You attach a controller and it works.
Plus nobody hooks a computer up to their big screen TV and plays with friends in the room.
Consoles are cheaper than equivalent PCs.
It's much harder to cheat.

Console's are a much bigger industry than \"1.2 billion dollars a year\" that WoW pulls in.

People already claimed consoles were going away and that PC gaming would take over quite a while ago. This looks like the same argument all over again.

seems some pundits in the gaming industry are a bit late to the ball.

this is probably the last gen where hardware will be a loss leader from the start

Shallow article is shallow.
The only thing I do have to say is that Sony might drop out of the console race after one more console, if they keep going the way they are now. At the moment, the PS3 is getting sales mostly just because of it's brand name.

and because it's priced the same as an X360.

Ferno wrote:People already claimed consoles were going away and that PC gaming would take over quite a while ago. This looks like the same argument all over again.

Well, yeh, I can see that going there, but I was more interested in his solution to piracy.

I think we're more likely to see the rise of many MANY more MMO's but WoW is kinda like the guys that started a pyramid scheme. Because they got in on the base floor they got rich. Granted that EQ should actually be credited for the big start in that genre but Blizzard did it right.(from a business standpoint) I doubt few will hit it that big, although many will try.

I wish consoles would go away. Draconian POS's.

Same song, different tune. Its been a \"war\" ever since the two came to existence.

PC gaming isnt going anywhere and anyone who says otherwise is a complete and utter idiot. There will be always a group who prefer consoles and the other who prefer PC's or another group that does both.

I would love for this to be the last generation of consoles, as they are quite annoying for the PC market!

Testicles wrote:I wish consoles would go away. Draconian POS's.

Best quote of the thread so far!

What's so good about the PC market?

Flexibility.

I can fix the game so I don't need the disk.

I can play with the data files (ex: GTAIII)

Games can be much bigger, consisting of several disks, and all data can go to the hard drive(s) (Note the plurality). Can you even change the HD in a console? Is it even legal? Probably illegal. Typical corporate lockdown crap.

I can upgrade the computer for new games.

I can use a million different controllers that are more comfortable and intuitive. No proprietary anything. I don't need permission from some corporate prick whether or not something will work.

I can back up my savegames

I can burn my installation so I don't need to re-install the game for whatever reason (I installed D3 once, back in '99, 7 machines later, I am still on the same install. All pilots, custom graphics, sounds, etc already there when I copy the installation back to disk)

Games load faster. (No CD needed)

I can play my own music through the same sound card over the game.

I don't have to pay for some Live! garbage, or whatever the PS3 has.

I can use the computer for other things. (Using real software, not the console crap)

When the computer is too old for new games, and a new one is in order, I can recommission the machine to something else. Consoles get thrown away.

Testiculese wrote:Flexibility.

I can fix the game so I don't need the disk.

I can play with the data files (ex: GTAIII)

Games can be much bigger, consisting of several disks, and all data can go to the hard drive(s) (Note the plurality). Can you even change the HD in a console? Is it even legal? Probably illegal. Typical corporate lockdown crap.

I can upgrade the computer for new games.

I can use a million different controllers that are more comfortable and intuitive. No proprietary anything. I don't need permission from some corporate prick whether or not something will work.

I can back up my savegames

I can burn my installation so I don't need to re-install the game for whatever reason (I installed D3 once, back in '99, 7 machines later, I am still on the same install. All pilots, custom graphics, sounds, etc already there when I copy the installation back to disk)

Games load faster. (No CD needed)

I can play my own music through the same sound card over the game.

I don't have to pay for some Live! garbage, or whatever the PS3 has.

I can use the computer for other things. (Using real software, not the console crap)

When the computer is too old for new games, and a new one is in order, I can recommission the machine to something else. Consoles get thrown away.

X2 and don't forget PORN!!!

Dakatsu wrote:I would love for this to be the last generation of consoles, as they are quite annoying for the PC market!

Testicles wrote:I wish consoles would go away. Draconian POS's.

Best quote of the thread so far!

No, consoles like the XBox make great servers. Where else can you get a lot of computers for so little.
http://windowsitpro.com/article/article ... x-box.html

Testiculese wrote:Flexibility.

I can fix the game so I don't need the disk.

I can play with the data files (ex: GTAIII)

Games can be much bigger, consisting of several disks, and all data can go to the hard drive(s) (Note the plurality). Can you even change the HD in a console? Is it even legal? Probably illegal. Typical corporate lockdown crap.

I can upgrade the computer for new games.

I can use a million different controllers that are more comfortable and intuitive. No proprietary anything. I don't need permission from some corporate prick whether or not something will work.

I can back up my savegames

I can burn my installation so I don't need to re-install the game for whatever reason (I installed D3 once, back in '99, 7 machines later, I am still on the same install. All pilots, custom graphics, sounds, etc already there when I copy the installation back to disk)

Games load faster. (No CD needed)

I can play my own music through the same sound card over the game.

I don't have to pay for some Live! garbage, or whatever the PS3 has.

I can use the computer for other things. (Using real software, not the console crap)

When the computer is too old for new games, and a new one is in order, I can recommission the machine to something else. Consoles get thrown away.

Console games don't often have editors, meaning there's much less replay value.

I don't care about consoles because I don't need them. Pretty much any game I really want to play I can get on the computer.

CDN_Merlin wrote:X2 and don't forget PORN!!!

You can get porn through the PS3

Sufficient - the main reason I asked is because this thread seems loaded with emotional antipathy rather than any actual concrete reason. I do have to say though:

Testiculese wrote:Games load faster. (No CD needed)

I wish.

COD4 loads a level in ..7? seconds for me. I forget, I haven't played it in a while, but I can't even take two chugs of beer and I'm getting shot. GTA3 is instant. When I switch cities, I don't even see the load screen. When I use Vortex to join a game, D3 loads into the level in less than 2 seconds.

What audio output is available for consoles? Do they have hdmi yet? Optical? RCA? Do they support x.1? (I have no idea) If they can't do 7.1, then that's another negative for them, as mine came with that onboard.

you can also add content to most like levels/maps (cudos:Into Ceberon) do artwork(textures/decals/overlays)(shaders/materials)

also another plus is MODS alot of new games come with a plethoria of things you can do things with(ex: if you wanted to make \"Descent Source\" based on valves source engin you probably could)

i thought consoles were supposed to be killing pc gaming not the other way around??

Yeah, that pretty much is the case. Some are forecasting the \"death\" of consoles but I don't see it happening. For some people it's the most affordable option for gaming.

P.S. Testi - what I refer to is copy-protection; it often prevents you from not requiring a CD where the publisher put anything particularly restrictive on it. Also, there are plenty of games that can be a bit silly regarding load times; someone I know has a quad-core, 8800 GTS, and RAID-0 array, and Source levels still take two minutes to load up.

Sirius wrote:Yeah, that pretty much is the case. Some are forecasting the "death" of consoles but I don't see it happening. For some people it's the most affordable option for gaming.

Yah. It's affordable, specs geared for games, fancy grpahic cards are expensive yo, and it has the potential to expand user input. ex wiimote, sixaxis controller, sure that stuff exists for the pc but c'mon i don't really see it taking off like it has/will on the consoles.

Some People In This Thread wrote:load times are better on pc's.

Testi, you made some valid arguments about PC gaming but i'm sure you understand that load times depend on the game. The makers of a console game can optimize load times for whatever they're making it for. They have the ability to play it through and go "hey this load time isn't good here, we need to fix this for the final release" so that when you play it only loads as long as the developers were expecting it to load. Sure they can also improve load times on a pc but they also can't make it run perfectly on every computer it graces. Sure you can overspend and get a monster rig but if the game isn't coded very well to start with it's still gonna load like ★■◆●. It'll just load like ★■◆● a little faster. It doens't matter if you have a pc or console.

And what happens when your rig gets old or the software doesn't jive with what you have on the pc? The console of the day will still run game the same way without error, and, like Topher said, you can play it on your big screen with your scary sound system, and all your friends.

Hm, no mention on the Wii or DS, which are both so different from either PCs or other consoles?

Testiculese is generally right, loading does tend to take less time on a PC; but Jon is also right in that it will also depend on the game.

Jon the Great wrote:And what happens when your rig gets old or the software doesn't jive with what you have on the pc? The console of the day will still run game the same way without error, and, like Topher said, you can play it on your big screen with your scary sound system, and all your friends.

...no, I do believe that when a console gets worn out, it's unrepairable, while a PC is. As for when wear isn't included, a PC will run a game just as well as when you bought the game, as will a console; so I don't know what you're talking about there.

I seem to remember during the console heyday, people were predicting PC's would dye as gaming machines as all the games would be made for consoles.

Jon:

Testiculese wrote:When the computer is too old for new games, and a new one is in order, I can recommission the machine to something else. Consoles get thrown away.

Sirus: Before I buy a game, I go to Gamecopyworld.com and make sure there is a crack first. Apparently there isn't a game on the market that isn't NOCD cracked. All my game disks are gathering dust in the closet.

Two minutes to load a level? How big is Source?! Would a game that size even load in a console? Or, does Source not use multicore? If he has a quadcore 2ghz, and Source only uses one..then I'm not that surprised.

You guys need to do some research. I don't care if consoles or PC's are better, but there's no reason to propogate any myths, even if they are in question form. (Caveat: This is PS3-centric, since I don't own an Xbox 360.)

Testi wrote:Games can be much bigger, consisting of several disks, and all data can go to the hard drive(s) (Note the plurality). Can you even change the HD in a console? Is it even legal? Probably illegal. Typical corporate lockdown crap.

Bluray discs hold ~50Gb. Do you have many PC games larger than this? You can replace your hard drive in a PS3. It voids your warranty, but so would replacing the hard drive in a Dell...

Testi wrote:I can use a million different controllers that are more comfortable and intuitive. No proprietary anything. I don't need permission from some corporate prick whether or not something will work.

Is it USB? Then it will work on a PS3. Buttons might not be mapped ideally, so you couldn't just plug in *any* device not expected to be used with a PS3 and have it work wonderfully. But no proprietary bull★■◆●, no "permission," etc.

Testi wrote:I can back up my savegames

You can do this on consoles.

Testi wrote:I don't have to pay for some Live! garbage, or whatever the PS3 has.

PSN network is free...

Testi wrote:I can use the computer for other things. (Using real software, not the console crap)

When the computer is too old for new games, and a new one is in order, I can recommission the machine to something else. Consoles get thrown away.

You can dual boot linux on a PS3. I think something like this is hackable on an Xbox.

Testi wrote:What audio output is available for consoles? Do they have hdmi yet? Optical? RCA? Do they support x.1? (I have no idea) If they can't do 7.1, then that's another negative for them, as mine came with that onboard.

They do, they can, etc...

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In the future, be more responsible when you're making claims, even if they're technically in question form. There are plenty of reasons why X is better than Y without having to just guess or make stuff up. You've already given quite a few.

While I forgot about BR's, that doesn't change much. I sure wouldn't be happy about having to load all that data from a cd drive. One BR disk is larger than the 40g PS3 model! Where's that installation going to go? What're the other size(s)? 80? I can kill an 80g drive without a problem. They're IDE as well, aren't they(are they laptop drives or 3.5?)? Replacing it is fine, sans warranty, I suppose, but kinda a crappy option. What size drives come in a standard Dell? 250? 320?

I was happy to see that finally, racing wheels are kinda-sorta supported on consoles. But I don't see much of a compatible selection for the console market. I thought there would be dozens of controllers...probably because of these stupid \"exclusive on [console]!\" scams that companies push on people. (Same thing with the BR/HDDVD fiasco...I hate that kind of arrogance) That's what I was talking about when I said permission.

How do you offload your game data? I know they come with those slot cards, but where can you plug those things into a PC to burn them for backup? The savegame data for the games I play is over a gigabyte. What capacity are those cards?

Aren't the Live! and PSN the only way to get the consoles online? If so, do you really think PSN will be free for long? This is America, after all. Land of the Dollar. And for at least half of the console market (xbox), you have to pay a monthly/annual fee for updates and such, and also pay for new content, and you're paying to play online, and paying, and paying...

Who is putting Linux on their consoles? The same 1% that use it on their desktops? (Me included ) They are throwaway items. And they were built that way for that very reason.

I'm not really against consoles either. I support whatever is the best product for what I want to do. In that light, I see consoles as a waste of materials, because of how limited they are, and how ripe they are for exploitation by corporate criminals with their little backdoor deals and such (See BR/HDDVD). However, they are fine for average, mainstream America who wants to play some games. What I'm against is these same people braying about how their limited, featureless products are far superior than everything else, when clearly, they are not (not pointing to anyone here)

Topher wrote:Plus nobody hooks a computer up to their big screen TV and plays with friends in the room.

My game box is also my htpc. I'm definitely not alone in this! For a grand, you can have all the benefits of a PC, all the benefits of a console, and all the benefits of a VCR...err...DVD player! I meant DVD player. It can also be your firewall/router, PDC, File server, and IIS/SQLServer box. All in one case.

Testiculese wrote:How do you offload your game data? I know they come with those slot cards, but where can you plug those things into a PC to burn them for backup? The savegame data for the games I play is over a gigabyte. What capacity are those cards?

With the modern consoles, you can stick in an SD card or plug in USB storage.

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I think that comparing the gigapoops between PC's and consoles is barking up the wrong tree anyways. Gigapoops are only valuable insofar as they create a great gaming experience. If you only play console games, you are missing out on a lot of great PC-only games, and if you only play PC games, then you are missing out on a lot of great console-only games. These are my thoughts.

Testiculese wrote:Flexibility.

I can fix the game so I don't need the disk.

I can play with the data files (ex: GTAIII)

Games can be much bigger, consisting of several disks, and all data can go to the hard drive(s) (Note the plurality). Can you even change the HD in a console? Is it even legal? Probably illegal. Typical corporate lockdown crap.

I can upgrade the computer for new games.
I can use a million different controllers that are more comfortable and intuitive. No proprietary anything. I don't need permission from some corporate prick whether or not something will work.

I can back up my savegames

I can burn my installation so I don't need to re-install the game for whatever reason (I installed D3 once, back in '99, 7 machines later, I am still on the same install. All pilots, custom graphics, sounds, etc already there when I copy the installation back to disk)

Games load faster. (No CD needed)

I can play my own music through the same sound card over the game.

I don't have to pay for some Live! garbage, or whatever the PS3 has.

I can use the computer for other things. (Using real software, not the console crap)

When the computer is too old for new games, and a new one is in order, I can recommission the machine to something else. Consoles get thrown away.

Which becomes completely useless because you can't kick back on the couch with a buddy and beat the crap out of each other in a fighting game.

I still have my dreamcast. that thing will never see a trash heap.

Testiculese wrote:Aren't the Live! and PSN the only way to get the consoles online? If so, do you really think PSN will be free for long? This is America, after all. Land of the Dollar. And for at least half of the console market (xbox), you have to pay a monthly/annual fee for updates and such, and also pay for new content, and you're paying to play online, and paying, and paying...

1: There are 7 consoles with proper online capabilities. Only 2 of them require a paid subscription. I hardly consider that to be half.
2: Sony is primarily located in Japan, you numbnut! And no, they are not going to make two continents pay for subscription and let the other four off the hook.

I've got a ps3... and a pretty dope machine... ps3 was about $450... Mother Board and CPU alone were over $500... Plus I put the thing together myself rather than having some monkey charge me... Thats where consoles will continue to have a market. Some people know absolutley NOTHING about PC hardware or otherwise. Why learn something worth knowing when you can simply pop in a CD and click play with the console. We the people are a lazy bunch. I don't see consoles ever fading away.

Yes you can, Fern.

TA, there are only two consoles that have games with the PC market. That's where I got my half. Where Sony is based is irrelevant.

I'm with Testi on this. PC gaming is better, both graphically and in terms of moddability and control.

However, I don't think consoles are going to go away any time soon. When there's a market for something, it will stick around. Consoles are quick n' easy, simple setup, etc... so people will keep buying them.

Honestly, I think we'll starting seeing PCs and consoles start drifting even closer together... more pre-built \"Gaming PC\"s, more consoles with PC-like functionality. Eventually, I think the two markets will look very very similar.

There's a podcast on itunes U - I believe in the Stanford electrical engineering section - of a lecture by some head of EA. It's quite interesting to hear his thoughts on the future of consoles/PCs.

I'd like to change my earlier statement. It's not that I want consoles to go away, I want the people in the corporations that are screwing it up for everyone to go away. This \"EXCLUSIVE ONLY ON XBOX!\"\" is so wrong. Grammatically, too..


Slide, I wouldn't install iTunes on a stolen computer. I have more respect for the computer than that.

Testiculese wrote:I'd like to change my earlier statement. It's not that I want consoles to go away, I want the people in the corporations that are screwing it up for everyone to go away. This "EXCLUSIVE ONLY ON XBOX!"" is so wrong. Grammatically, too..

You mean the companies that pay other companies to only make a game for one console, right? Because you can't expect the first-party games to be multi-platform, and the lower-budget games are sometimes just exclusive because they don't have the recourses to program for two consoles.

Pretty much. I understand that the Wii can't export their stuff to other consoles. However, if EA makes a game, it should be available on all supported platforms without question. (PC, Xbox and PS3). When Halo comes out, there's absolutely ZERO reason that it doesn't come out for all three. GTA4 Should already be out for PC. Etc.

Testiculese wrote:However, if EA makes a game, it should be available on all supported platforms without question. (PC, Xbox and PS3).

You do realise that each console (and PC) would require essentially separate programming, right? That's the main reason games aren't released on all platforms.

Testiculese wrote:When Halo comes out, there's absolutely ZERO reason that it doesn't come out for all three.

Aside from that Microsoft are essentially supporting it so much so that it sells more 360s/WindowsOSes. If it were to come out on all three consoles, then Microsoft wouldn't have given it such a big budget in the first place.

TIGERassault wrote:You do realise that each console (and PC) would require essentially separate programming, right? That's the main reason games aren't released on all platforms.

Of course there are differences, and it takes some work to port a game from one platform to another.

However, they're far from "separate". Some things have to be reworked, but it's not like they have to recreate the whole game, or even the majority of it. Even without all the models, textures, level scripting, etc. (which don't have to be recreated), huge portions of the code can be left alone, or just re-compiled in the new environment.