DescentBB

I've got the Logitech E3D Pro Joystick, and it's always been terribly dodgy. Right now there are a number of problems playing D3.

First, it seems to wiggle left and right for a moment every time I start move it to the right. And second, the handle twist seems to be stuck twisting right--I have it bound to banking, and I continue to bank right, even when twisting left.

Logitech is no help either--the drivers are as up-to-date as they can be, and \"Logitech Gaming Software\" is completely useless.

Can I maybe get some software to tweak my drivers properly? Recommendations?

-Joker

As far as the banking goes, my guess is that you actually have the throttle bound to banking, not your twist. [It happens to a lot of people; you'd be surprised.] Center the throttle so its axis doesn't get auto-selected, and re-bind the bank controls.

As for the other, I'm not sure. I do happen to know from experience that the Logitech sticks can get flaky after being used for a while.

Foil wrote:As far as the banking goes, my guess is that you actually have the throttle bound to banking, not your twist. [It happens to a lot of people; you'd be surprised.] Center the throttle so its axis doesn't get auto-selected, and re-bind the bank controls.

Bingo.
/me dons a dunce hat.

This brings up a whole new problem, though--the right twist is less sensitive than the left. It takes like 3 seconds to roll right and only 1 to roll left.

-Joker

Pots in the stick are shot. LT will replace it if it's still w/in the warranty period.

Ok. A screwdriver, two knives, pliars, scissors, nail clippers, and lots of cursing later...my attempt to inspect the innards of the E3D have not helped my problems, and left it mostly non-functional. Again.

Barring some sort of miraculous advice for my E3D, it's time for a new joystick. I've seen the name of Microsoft's \"Sidewinder\" series thrown around alot--are all of the Sidewinders pretty good?

I've got my eye on this make:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Sidewinde ... dZViewItem
and I'd like some opinions..

-Joker

I've tried the Precision 2 before, but I wasn't particularly satisfied with it so I reverted back to a Precision Pro USB. The 3D Pro is likely the best of them all, but requires Grendels special USB converter to work properly in a modern system.

The reason I didn't like the Precision 2 was because the springs for centering the stick feel a bit sloppy. It uses two separate tension springs to recenter the stick, so the resistance varies a lot as you rotate the stick around. In contrast the Precision Pro uses a single large spring pushing upwards to recenter the stick and it gives uniform resistance from all angles.

Is that the precision 2 in that link? It doesn't specify.

Also, unrelatedly, what's the primary IRC room for Descent gamers?

-Joker

Yeah, that is a Precision 2.

#descent3 on irc.gamesurge.net

That's what the auction says, a SideWinder Joystick (USB). No hat switch, no \"twist\" (IIRC).

If you want a MS stick, I would suggest these (best 1st):

- 3D Pro w/ USB converter (latter is hard to come by)
- Force Feedback 2 (expensive)
- Precision 2
- Precision Pro (make sure you get it w/ USB converter)

Grendel wrote:- Precision Pro (make sure you get it w/ USB converter)

I'd really love the 3DP, because I always favor simplicity, but the getting the USB converter sounds like too much of a complication.

The Precision Pro is my next choice, but what's the USB converter for that? The same as for the 3DP? I found this converter:


But the reviews insist that it's crap (specifically, that it won't work with my Windows XP). Anyone know about it?

Also, this Saitek stick looks OK:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6826102505
Ideas?

-Joker

Regarding the Precision Pro, there are two 'flavors' (ref.).

• The earlier models (product ID 97462-xxxxxxx) are gameport-only. Retail gameport-to-USB adapters (like the one you linked) don't work for them at all.
  
  [Note: There are some issues with the gameport-only sticks in faster machines due to clock/timer issues; I believe this thread relates.]
• The later models (product ID 85791-xxxxxxx) came bundled with an MS-specific gameport-to-USB adapter.
  
  [I've owned four of the later models, including one I recently found on Craigslist for only a couple bucks, and all four came with the adapter.]

-----------------------

You'll find lots of opinions on which stick(s) to use, but the common thread here is that most of the best ones are no longer produced. The new stuff on the shelves today is mostly junk, with the exception of the very high-end sticks.

Foil wrote:Regarding the Precision Pro, there are two 'flavors' (ref.).

• The earlier models (product ID 97462-xxxxxxx) are gameport-only. Retail gameport-to-USB adapters (like the one you linked) don't work for them at all.
  [..]
• The later models (product ID 85791-xxxxxxx) came bundled with an MS-specific gameport-to-USB adapter.

The earlier model is also labled "3D Pro Plus" on it's bottom, the newer ones are labled "Precision Pro".

There are exactly two USB adapter you can use w/ SideWinder sticks -- the one that came w/ the PP (works ONLY w/ a PP) and the self-made adapter documented in the tech section (works w/ the 3DP, 3DPP, PP & FFP). Any other USB adapter will not work.

just so you know, the pot in the handle for twist goes bad when the leads break inside logitech's 'quality hardware' they use the bare minimum to get conductivity if you ever look inside their wires you will see 80% nylon and 20% copper (or 3 little strands)

that's why they break, it should be 100% copper
let alone those plastic potentiometers are utter garbage

green/red leads - orange is the common (takes 3)

So with Logitech it's never the drivers!
Their drivers and circuit board inside the joysticks those are good
The moving parts - are logicrap

Nice post Bub. I'm inclined to agree, since I literally ripped my E3D apart and found platic at every turn. Funny story though--it works perfectly now. I unplugged and reconnected all of the connections, pretty much just for the hell of it. It continued to stutter for a bit, but the suddenly started working great. I doubt it'll last long, though, so I should probably buy a SPP anyway...

So, are the Sidewinder sticks so quality for the converse of those reasons, then? I'm curious about joystick technology now.

-Andy

The Sidewinders also wear out, takes a little longer but still happens. The main difference is we know where to buy all the replacement switches to fix them.

Hat switches for SideWinder/Logitech sticks (these are a lot better than the ones in the sticks, rated at 1 million cycles), trigger switch for SideWinder sticks.

The 3DP, FFP, 3DPP, and PP use optical position sensing on all axis (X,Y,R,T). The FF2 and P2 use a (high quality) potentiometer for R (twist). Logicrap sticks use very cheap pots for all axis that mechanically wear out very fast. The LT 3DEP uses only 2 wires/pot BTW.