DescentBB

The complete title is Hard Times at Douglas High : A No Child Left Behind Report Card

Although the title suggests it will be a look at the effect of the policy on the school/students it is hard to focus on such a relatively trivial aspect of the school and its students and staff when you see the behavior and attitude of the students.

It is truly scary that these kids are brought up this way, just about every Hollywood stereotype about ghetto youth is brought to life...the problem is this is a documentary! These are not actors, they are real, and I have to say that regardless of how much the No Child Left Behind Act may help or hurt the schools ability to serve the community it is clear that a few generations of poor parenting can be completely disastrous for the lives of the children.
And when that kind of parenting is the norm for a whole community then it becomes a cancer on a city...on society as a whole. One look at the crime statistics for Baltimore and you'll have a hard time disagreeing with me on that!

It takes a deeply dysfunctional village to raise a walking dead child.
My advice for everyone, watch this program and stay far away from Baltimore!

For those who want to focus on the federal governments (read:Bush's) failure, remember the federal funding is a very minor percentage of a schools budget, I think less than 10%, and they also have near zero influence on the administration of the schools.
The NCLBA was an attempt for the Fed to have an influence by mandating all schools meet certain standardized benchmarks or face consequences. There is no way such a new bit of legislation can be blamed in any way for the way these children have been raised.

At this particular school the drop out rate for 9th graders is 50%!
25% of students make it to the 12th grade and of that sub group only 25% of them graduate! And if you watch the program you'll see that a percentage of those that do graduate clearly are handed a diploma they didn't come close to earning! They will never make it in the real academic world or middle class work force!
It is no wonder that the federal government would try to implement some kind of standardized criteria for the school to meet! Those kind of results are beyond pathetic, for me they represent criminal neglect.

America has been wounded deeply by a social experiment gone way wrong, and I'm not talking about the NCLBA! This failed experiment is being perpetuated by people who have fooled themselves into thinking they are the compassionate ones fighting to save the victims when really they are the culpable ones leading the victims to their doom!

I could not agree more. The no child left behind policy was a total failure and the brakes need to be applied fast on this one. I am very big into helping OUR poor and this is nothing more than cheating the poor out of a good education to create a cheap work force.

I found a URL reviewing this movie also:

http://www.bloggernews.net/116353

Haven't seen the documentary, but I know firsthand about some of the issues.

I spent a year as a 9th-grade teacher at Douglass High (different school, but some definite similarities) in Oklahoma City. It's an urban school, 99% minority, in probably the poorest ghetto-ish area of the city.

I had some wonderful students who were smart, witty, responsible, and who I'm sure are doing fine today. The kind of students that make you smile as a teacher.

But I also had a scary number of students who at 9th grade were already almost beyond hope. Suffice it to say that it was brutal, even with the advantages I had of being a male teacher.

In one case, I had an emotionally-troubled student who claimed to be the son of a pimp, being raised in the 'family business'. I thought it was typical teen braggadocio... until I met his dad. This kid was screwed-up; he was smart, handled my classwork fine, a talented artist (I saw his art book), but he was already messed-up.

Another case was the smartest kid in my class (yep, the one who was bored by the normal material, and was always asking for harder stuff). He was being raised by an elderly grandmother, and ended up joining a gang and virtually disappearing at the end of the year. By the time May rolled around, I hardly ever saw him.

There were a bunch of others... a mentally-challenged kid being pushed up through the grades when he wasn't ready... a few others who were so utterly convinced that they would be dropping out soon, that they didn't care and refused to even try... those were the ones who had me in tears.

The one thing that seemed to be a common denominator was parents. In the majority of cases, the kids that had a decent parent (or even just a good coach, or mentor) were the ones who had a good chance of making it out. In the rare cases where a kid had both parents, those kids generally did fine.

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I'm not sure about how to solve these things, but from my perspective as someone who had my eyes opened, there are much bigger issues than the NCLBA.

For one, school budgets which are tied to area/district income. This was a poor, poor neighborhood, broken-down housing and no real infrastructure... and the school was no different.

My classroom was in a 60-something-year-old building with A/C that didn't work, falling apart. Plus, supplies were rare. I was lucky to have a computer of any kind, the copiers were often broken, I couldn't stock any kind of writing utensils or chalk for my chalkboard... but most importantly, there weren't even enough textbooks available for my students.

Contrast that with some of the schools in a suburban district just a few miles away, where every student had a computer, teachers had all the materials and equipment that they needed, plus some. It's no wonder some of my kids felt like they were stuck in poverty with no chance.

[Now, after I left, the OKC school district was able to rebuild and re-structure Douglass High through special funding from a revitalization project, and it's a much better school now. But it only serves to show how desperate they were.]

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Anyway, this thread just hits close to home for me, and I wanted to share my experience.

This is the type of thing that has me so frustrated with all that money going to charity and our own infrastructure is just shot to pieces. I know cross posting, but they are so closely related. Two of my nephews are big boys, 14 and 16 years old. They are both at 6' plus and over two hundred pounds. They coast through school because they know they will graduate with no effort being put out, they know there rights, so no one can tell them anything they don't want to hear and if anyone touches them they know they can press charges although I get up on my tippy toes and slap them in the back head anyway when they go to far. They are good kids at heart but I am very concerned that there future is just shot due to this no kid left behind policy and the shape the schools are in, and there friends are no better. The way our infrastructure is setup just sucks. It really needs attention now because its going down hill and I see no real future growth with the generation that's coming up next.

What is lacking in schools these days isn't money. It isn't proper testing.

What is lacking is respect and discipline. When I grew up, 80’s, students were still afraid of the teachers. While the removal of spanking from the class room had taken effect, I still remember seeing that paddle over the door of the principal’s office.

Now the teachers are all afraid of the students. I loved the idea of teaching, and chose to teach for two years before going to graduate school, it was insane how many warnings they gave new teachers about not ever being alone in a room with a student, never having contact with a student outside of class, never touching a student, ”how a student can destroy your life”.

My girlfriend underwent Taiwan’s education system, and I can guarantee you that her school did not have the funding of most of our inner city schools. For every problem she missed on a test she was hit on the knuckles with a ruler, or forced to kneel on an abacuses for that many seconds.

I think that’s insane…..I also think that America cannot be a technological leader for long if something doesn’t change. More and more Koreans/Indians/Japanese, now go home after they are educated here. Americans need Americans to be learning these trades.

Wow, thanks Foil! If you get the chance watch the program and then grade my reaction to it, you obviously have insight to the situation that very few have and with your experience you will no doubt be moved by it.

I too am unsure of how to solve the problem but I think it is silly to have the poor districts operate on a lower budget than the wealthy districts.
Why can't the total school budget be distributed equally by number of students instead of according to tax district revenue? It's not like those students will only live within the district they were schooled in! Nor will their impact on society be limited to their own district!

I think it's a good thing that the Fed would want to mandate minimum standards but before they ever went to grade scores they should have done it with state and local funding!
The fed doesn't have to tell the state what book to buy but the same logic that says the Fed can mandate students attend school should be able to mandate that each state distribute the budget equally to each student/school!! Seems like equal opportunity to education, since education is mandated by the Fed, is closer to being a civil right than many other 'rights' the Fed has found in our constitution!

I just want to point out though that it doesn't matter how much money you pour into a school like Fredrick Douglas High, if the students are not disciplined enough to pass a final exam when the teachers literally give them all the questions and all the answers to the test, just three days before the exam AND allow them to bring their notes and books to be used during the exam....well I'm sorry but that is not the product of bad budgeting or Federal failure etc. etc.
Those kids have been bred to be losers!
The plantation is a long way from being dead, we've just replaced individual slave owners with political party ownership. And BOTH parties have their name on the paperwork!!

Why can't the total school budget be distributed equally by number of students instead of according to tax district revenue?

That is the system we have in British Columbia. Not that the schools in the richer districts don't have it better that the poor ones. A bake sale in the up-scale schools will raise thousands where in the poorer areas they might get a few hundred. But that stuff just pays for extras. The basic budget of every school is set by the number of students. The amount depends on the school district as the northern, mostly rural and isolated districts obviously need more bucks just for infrastructure. Capital spending for new schools and equipment is also a Provincial matter. Teachers are one of the better paid professions here as well.
No wonder you guys complain about your public schools.

Back in the early 70s I watched a documentary on a New York high school. The filming was done in the early 60s. No student today would tolerate the abuse heaped on them by the arrogant and demeaning teachers. We complain about the upbringing of today's children and probably for good cause but don't forget that the \"family values\" upbringing of the 50s and 60s gave us a generation of Hippies.

Why can't the total school budget be distributed equally by number of students instead of according to tax district revenue?

This is how Charter schools operate in Arizona, there is a doller amount associated with every student. No kid ever fails. No kid is ever expelled.

Not only don't they fail, kids who do nothing recieve B's, and C's so that their parents think the school is extreamly effective, and don't remove the kid from the school.

Gooberman wrote:

Why can't the total school budget be distributed equally by number of students instead of according to tax district revenue?

This is how Charter schools operate in Arizona, their is a doller amount associated with every student. No kid ever fails. No kid is every expelled.

Not only don't they fail, kids who do nothing recieve B's, and C's so that their parents think the school is extreamly effective, and don't remove the kid from the school.

Lol! I didn't mean distribute grades equally, just the budget!
The grades should be earned or the student fails on the report card just the way he or she will fail in life if they don't develop skills and acquire knowledge. I'm amazed at how some places want to pass a student even though he can't really pass the test!

Ford Prefect wrote:...We complain about the upbringing of today's children and probably for good cause but don't forget that the "family values" upbringing of the 50s and 60s gave us a generation of Hippies.

You know I've thought about that but I don't believe the Hippies were a negative result of anyone's upbringing.
I think the Vietnamese war gave credence to an otherwise typical counter culture movement that is always there in one form or another and caused it to become mainstream! Remember before hippies there were Beatnics and before them it was the Jazz lovers, and before them who knows what they were but unlike the previous counter culture groups the Hippies received the benefit of the perfect storm, a truly unnecessary war, that gave them credibility. In other words it's all the French's fault for starting Vietnam

Yeah, but distributing grades is the consequence of tieing funding to a kid. The kid literally transforms from a student to a customer, and a 'customer is always right' attitude follows suit.

My school needed 200 more students to break even. The teachers jobs where at risk if students left. So the kids were fed good grades to keep the parents happy, and most importantly, inactive.

I respect the hell out of people like Foil, but I would never teach at a lower-income school again, and it has nothing to do with the kids.

Perhaps this is more an argument against charter schools. I just know that what I saw was pretty messed up.

In other words it's all the French's fault for starting Vietnam

Ah-ha!! Of course! Why didn't I see it before? Let's nuke the SOBs.

Gooberman wrote:What is lacking in schools these days isn't money. It isn't proper testing.

whats lacking in schools today is proper Parenting.

Not sure about other states, but Colorado teaches kids at a very early age what there rights are. These kids know they don't have to try and the Law is on there side. I think its more than parenting but rather the system thats in place. These kids have no idea what a consequence is. Untill I moved into the area and popped the oldest one upside the back of the head for telling me to F off when I asked about his home work. The other three are a little more cautious with me now

My brother and his wife warned me though that if they tell the school I will have cops at my door to take me away.

Gooberman wrote:Now the teachers are all afraid of the students.

Not completely true. I had two of my teacher who were not afraid of locking horns with a student if they decided to act out. And the best part was that most of the time the students, even if they were bigger guys, would back down, when the teachers were shorter than average.

I attend Saint Petersburg High School (I think it was once rated 26th best school in the country), in the IB Programme.

I guess my example really isn't an educational class, but still, it is very similar to what I observed in the regular classes.

I was in a mixed class of traditional and IB students, in guitar class. I could play guitar well, and I really took the class for an A. Well, on the first day, we found out the damn teacher didn't know how to play guitar. Seriously, what the hell? Right off the bat, I am a better teacher than the teacher. Well, after he tried to teach us guitar by throwing sheet music (read: frickin' sheet music!, not tabs, sheet music!) and telling us to learn it. He put me and three other kids in charge of teaching the class of 30 to learn guitar. Eventually he got so pissed off that we were not getting anywhere that he started giving out reports on random crap, such as the rise of ska music, to a biography on Elvis. Well, after recieving As for the past two six weeks periods, I decided I wouldn't do the reports, not turn them in, nothing. I had nap time for one hour a day, six out of my seven school days (we have a float schedule, we have six of seven classes on any given day). Well, I recieved my report card just before Winter break, and I got an A in guitar! I wonder how this happened, since I did NOTHING in the class.

Well, my point really is that the teacher can make a large difference. I remember my past two history teachers as being great teachers. I will never forget the words of my 8th grade History teacher: \"History is how you learn from your past to not make the same mistakes. They are tellings from the past, and are literally his - story.\" My 8th grade Language Arts teacher and last year guitar teacher were crappy teachers. I remember the guitar teacher told me to \"never bring a guitar again\" because my amplifier buzzed and my acoustic was in the shop for repairs. My LA teacher did nothing for 45 minutes, then tried to gain order in the last 15 minutes, which never worked. She never taught us anything, and we got an A for the six weeks just for summarizing 5 Time For Kids articles.

Eh, my rant is carrying on for a while now... Take with as much of anything as you want, but it is all truthful.

LOL @ blaming “family values” for breeding hippies. If you apply that logic properly you would have had a crop of hippies every generation since the invention of said values.

There were a lot of forces at work that created the counter culture of the 60s…so let’s not blame family values.

As far as NCLB, I have been watching an ongoing story in the PBS news program The News Hour, which has been watching the affect NCLB has had on one particular school district. And I have to say that the NCLB has had a positive affect on this district, but it’s a long hard road, cleaning up decades of systemic and cultural problems.

NCLB has been lambasted mostly by the administrations and the teachers and their unions, but as I see it…it’s long overdue that we had a federal standards system, and if this one is not perfect, then fix it, but we still need a system of standards in which to judge the performance of school districts by. And NCLB gives plenty of good options to the districts when they have to make required changes to meet the standards.

As far as Charter Schools go….well at least they are actually teaching kids! And if they are affecting the funding of the regular public schools…oh well, let that be a lesson to get their ★■◆● together, or get left behind.

Oh yea, and I can’t agree more on the point about parenting, that’s where failure begins, and the public schools just keep it going, without a clue. (I was taught to read by my mother before I went to first grade)

Gooberman wrote:What is lacking in schools these days isn't money. It isn't proper testing.

What is lacking is respect and discipline.

I completely agree with you.

The children's education is a very major factor for how the condition of the country will change! Here's what I say should happen:

1: Get rid of the 'no kid left behind' law.

2: Increase school funding. I mean, REALLY increase it! The USA has a reputation among the other 1st World countries for that! And the fact that private schools are considered oh so much better than public schools there only proves it, it's not supposed to be that way.

3: Change the way the funding is distributed. Firstly, the state and region shouldn't matter. Secondly, each school should have a base amount depending on how much it would take to keep the place up, followed by an amount depending on the number of students there. One of the biggest problems about American education is that there's an effort to try and keep them in school so that the school gets funding, and if that persists then the budget isn't set out properly.

And if you watch the program you'll see that a percentage of those that do graduate clearly are handed a diploma they didn't come close to earning!

You do have standardised tests, right? As in, each school in, let's say, a state has their final exams and all the papers can't be tempered with, they're all mixed in with each other, and all graded equally, right?

TIGERassault wrote:...
You do have standardised tests, right? As in, each school in, let's say, a state has their final exams and all the papers can't be tempered with, they're all mixed in with each other, and all graded equally, right?

Standardized testing is one of the parts of the No Child Left Behind Act you say we should get rid of....

As for pouring more money into the schools, we currently spend much more per child than many other countries who's students outperform our students by a large margin. So more money isn't the overall cure, granted some schools need a bigger piece of the pie than they get but overall we have a healthy budget for education.

You can lead a horse to water,
but you can't make his punk ass, saggin' britches, soon to be shot by the police or his cousin, go to class by just pouring money down a drain in the principles office!

If you look at those countries who's students out perform ours, and do so spending less money on them, you will find a common thread...discipline and respect for authority along with a sense of importance on higher education being instilled by the students family and peers.

We have a sub culture in our country that breeds losers and losers drag the scores down until they ultimately drop out of school.
We have a group of political leaders who pander to the losers to remain in power thus perpetuating the loser subclass, generation after generation....

TIGERassault wrote: 1: Get rid of the 'no kid left behind' law.

Explain why?

TIGERassault wrote: 2: Increase school funding. I mean, REALLY increase it! The USA has a reputation among the other 1st World countries for that! And the fact that private schools are considered oh so much better than public schools there only proves it, it's not supposed to be that way.

The private schools here do a fine job with much less money.

TIGERassault wrote: 3: Change the way the funding is distributed. Firstly, the state and region shouldn't matter. Secondly, each school should have a base amount depending on how much it would take to keep the place up, followed by an amount depending on the number of students there. One of the biggest problems about American education is that there's an effort to try and keep them in school so that the school gets funding, and if that persists then the budget isn't set out properly.

Real estate taxes fund most of the public school budget here so that would be a problem.

It’s not the money dude!

From my experience as a teacher, it's really a number of issues, guys.

- Top of the list is definitely parenting. Kids without one or two stable parents have it incredibly hard; unfortunately this is the case much of the time in poor / 'ghetto' areas. From my experience (see my post above), this is the single most significant factor in whether a student really succeeds.

- Number two is probably teacher quality, including their knowledge of the material and ability to keep classroom discipline. Some of the best and most loved teachers I knew, the ones who were really making a difference in the lives of their students, were the ones who not only knew their stuff, but could handle their classroom. They had to be firm, but the kids loved them. Teacher qualification requirements and pay make a surprisingly big difference here; in the district where I taught, they were often scrambling for qualified teachers, because most of the good ones in the area were leaving for other states and/or districts with better pay.

- The rest really can be put into the broad category of resources, for everything from classroom materials to the things like art and music and sports that can really help students. Ford Prefect is right that the US has a healthy education budget; it just needs to be distributed differently and used more intelligently in many cases. Teaching in a district that could barely scrape by on its low budget while the nearby suburban district was buying computers for every classroom in its brand new buildings really opened my eyes.

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Honestly, our educational system is something that isn't going to be fixed by any campaign promise of legislation, school vouchers, repeal of the NCLBA, etc. Things aren't going to start getting better until the fundamental things like parenting and teacher quality start improving.

Foil wrote:....
Honestly, our educational system is something that isn't going to be fixed by any campaign promise of legislation, school vouchers, repeal of the NCLBA, etc. Things aren't going to start getting better until the fundamental things like parenting and teacher quality start improving.

Well there is an area that the Fed could address and help improve. Instead of bailing out businesses like these mortgage speculators take all those millions or billions and start a fund to supplement teacher salary. Create a lucrative tax free incentive bonus program for teachers who stick with the job.

I've often said one of the most screwed up things about our culture is the thugs who throw a ball through a hoop are idolized and overpayed relative to their contribution to society and teachers and policemen are way underpayed often leaving us with incompetents on the job.

Teaching and police work should be extremely high paid and so sought after that we could be very selective in the hiring process and hold them to very high standards.

It would be kind of cool to find out your algebra teacher just signed a new contract for $450,000 per year and a signing bonus of $150,000....

Will Robinson wrote:It would be kind of cool to find out your algebra teacher just signed a new contract for $450,000 per year and a signing bonus of $150,000....

I agree, but the system is so backwards that it'll prolly never happen, not without many overhauls of the system.

Wow, I actually agree with you for once Foil…so we have to let the government do what it can, and leave the rest up to the people…sad huh?

Unfortunately many of the problems faced in the public schools, in regard to the parents job, will never be addressed by politicians, because they started the problems in the first place.

I don't know how your teacher salaries match up but these are the basics in Canada.

Average Teacher Salaries by Province

4 Years of Education 6 Years of Education
Minimum Maximum Minimum Maximum
Alberta $43,653 $68,967 $48,779 $74,126
British Columbia$37,908 $56,743 $45,506 $70,684
Saskatchewan $38,700 $59,500 $43,570 $66,103
Manitoba $37,948 $58,737 $42,887 $65,310
Ontario $37,043 $62,625 $42,258 $73,472
Quebec $36,196 $58,633 $41,982 $63,527
New Brunswick $33,776 $52,231 $40,482 $62,292
Nova Scotia $35,906 $57,376 $44,168 $67,978
P E Island $30,341 $46,871 $38,480 $59,657
Newfoundland
& Labrador $34,838 $45,264 $45,280 $60,212

In order to attract quality people you have to pay a quality wage. $60,000 a year and 8 weeks off in the summer is not too shabby. IMHO
That chart does not copy/paste well. Here is a link to a readable version.
http://resource.educationcanada.com/salaries.html

Looks about the same according to this site.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All ... ers/Salary

Prolly a little lower here, but not enuf to excuse poor performance.

EDIT:

You should prolly figure “after taxes” and cost of living.

Foil wrote:- Top of the list is definitely parenting.

- Number two is probably teacher quality, including their knowledge of the material and ability to keep classroom discipline. Some of the best and most loved teachers I knew, the ones who were really making a difference in the lives of their students, were the ones who not only knew their stuff, but could handle their classroom.

I agree with the two points from my experience as a student. I've had some really great teachers who weren't paid much, but were still devoted to the kids here. I'll start with two different time periods:

When I was about 4 years old, I was enrolled at a special school to go into Verbotonal Therapy (training the brain to balance out the hearing loss and percieve speech sounds). The teachers there are extremely patient with the kids and took their time to make sure each kid gets the kind of education they needed by the end of the school day. The activities we did were learning experiences.
Point is that these teachers weren't paid much, but the school managed to get some great quality of teachers with the right kind of patience (needed a lot!) language skills to communicate to the deaf, and the kind of care to ensure that each child is at the right level of thinking and education. Even at 21 years old, I still remember the teachers and the things I did there from 4-7 years old!

In high school, I've had some friends who didn't have a stable parent. They had a rough life. Fortunately for us, we have some really great teachers with the right kind of dicipline. Growing up with them, I remember that they didn't really do well in classes until we got to high school. It was amazing to me how some of these guys would actually be convinced to do their work in class and pass with a good grade. I think that it was because our teachers are more of the "I care about where you're going after high school. Let's try this work again" instead of "If you don't keep up with your work, you're not going to succeed in life. It's your choice"(And that attitude is probably why some teachers couldn't control the classes. I've had a few of those myself.) I think that this made a difference for some of the students because I ran into a couple of them last year and was almost suprised to see how great they're doing.

*edit* BTW these are some fascinating posts I've read. It's nice to open eyes once in awhile and realize that the problems you couldn't do anything about as a kid are something you can do now as an adult when you have the right tools.

Will Robinson wrote:Teaching and police work should be extremely high paid and so sought after that we could be very selective in the hiring process and hold them to very high standards.

It would be kind of cool to find out your algebra teacher just signed a new contract for $450,000 per year and a signing bonus of $150,000....

I'm not sure teachers need to be paid that extravagantly. Straight pay increases will help retain some qualified people, but what really got me was the discrepancy in pay scales. For example, in Oklahoma (where I taught), some of the best teachers I knew were moving to Texas because their starting annual salaries would be well over $10,000 higher.

Kiran wrote:I've had some really great teachers who weren't paid much, but were still devoted to the kids here.

Exactly. Some of the best teachers I met were people who could easily make six figures in their field, but they had such a heart for the kids that they became teachers and stayed at the 'bad' schools so they could make a difference.

Foil wrote:I'm not sure teachers need to be paid that extravagantly. Straight pay increases will help retain some qualified people, but what really got me was the discrepancy in pay scales....

I wasn't really suggesting the starting pay would be that high or even that all teachers could reach that level just by staying on the job long enough. I'd like to see good teachers celebrated and rewarded the way we celebrate outstanding athletes or entertainers. In other words, not just pay them more but as a culture have more respect for their skills.
We should just about double or triple the starting pay though and tighten the screening process as the competition starts drawing higher qualified people to the profession.

If teaching was the kind of profession that had "superstars" it would draw the best of the best and students would be inspired on new levels and even the average type students would encourage each other to excel academically instead of just the nerds. Here's a different way to say it: It would be kind of cool to find out your algebra teacher was the Tiger Woods of math teachers.

Will Robinson wrote:If teaching was the kind of profession that had "superstars" .... It would be kind of cool to find out your algebra teacher was the Tiger Woods of math teachers.

Ah, I understand. I agree, that would make a huge difference.

As I've discovered, though, the typical perception of teachers, especially public middle school and high school teachers, is pretty much like this:

"Beuller... Beuller..."

The usual comments about teachers are often the stereotypical "Those who can't, teach", "Teachers are just paid babysitters", and "The government pays these people for only 9 months of work?!". Some people really appreciate good teachers, but in most cases I got a much more positive reaction by mentioning my mathematics degree than mentioning being a high school math teacher.

There are some districts that have "Teacher of the Year" awards, some with incentives, but in the public's eyes, it's really not much different than being the local Wal-Mart's "Employee of the Month".

As to how to change the cultural perception, I don't know. Maybe we need a new reality-TV show about teachers... "American Teacher"...

Foil wrote:There are some districts that have "Teacher of the Year" awards, some with incentives, but in the public's eyes, it's really not much different than being the local Wal-Mart's "Employee of the Month".

This is a LIE...

Wal-mart employees get paid more (Unless you are female, of course )

I wanted to teach...

... until I spent some time in the public schools during the '04 election campaign. I simply wasn't welcome -- the other teachers didn't want a *gasp* Republican around. I got flamed and lectured over my political beliefs, though I hadn't said anything about them anywhere near any of the teachers or students.

It's going to be awful hard to get quality teachers into classrooms when half of those who are qualified aren't welcome.

Lothar wrote:I wanted to teach...

... until I spent some time in the public schools during the '04 election campaign. I simply wasn't welcome -- the other teachers didn't want a *gasp* Republican around. I got flamed and lectured over my political beliefs, though I hadn't said anything about them anywhere near any of the teachers or students.

It's going to be awful hard to get quality teachers into classrooms when half of those who are qualified aren't welcome.

if you didn't say anything, how'd they know you where a republican?

fliptw wrote:if you didn't say anything, how'd they know you where a republican?

Lothar wrote:I wanted to teach...

... until I spent some time in the public schools during the '04 election campaign. I simply wasn't welcome...

Wow. I know 'office politics' is as bad as anywhere else in schools, but I didn't know it was a factor in your experience.

Catering to the lowest common denominator is always disastrous.



(edit: Drive-by post)

fliptw wrote:if you didn't say anything, how'd they know you where a republican?

It's hard to fake being a raving looney and once they figure out your trying to fake it they out you...kind of like that scene in The Invasion of the Body Snatchers when the alien possessed spot the normal humans.

Dakatsu wrote:

Foil wrote:There are some districts that have "Teacher of the Year" awards, some with incentives, but in the public's eyes, it's really not much different than being the local Wal-Mart's "Employee of the Month".

This is a LIE...

Wal-mart employees get paid more (Unless you are female, of course )

I respectfully yet forcefully disagree. I worked at a Wal-Mart back in '05. The biggest paycheck I ever made was $407.13, and my usual paycheck was around $350. Last I checked, I'm a male.

Anywho, on topic. I've an idea, it's called homeschooling. I went through nine years of it, and while I'm what some would call an ultra-liberal, I think it's an excellent way to learn at your own pace, which of course is a very good way to learn.

Since you worked at walmart.. is it true that they tell you about all sorts of government wage subsidies/assistance?