DescentBB

Interesting -- Secret report: biofuel caused food crisis.

Not too surprising. And predicable. So is livability an adequate trade off for \"being Green\"? Not at that cost.

Until someone shows me the facts and figures used to come to this conclusion, I will continue to consider this “BS”.

I can pretty much guarantee that the number one factor in food costs is demand, then oil…so on. Not to mention these ass backwards governments in some of these countries, where inflation is like 10000 %. I watched the leader of the world food bank on TV the other day, blaming all sorts of things for rising food costs, but never once mentioned the corrupt and inept governments that were responsible for feeding their people. (or how markets work)

Remember this all started as a long grain rice shortage.

So someone please explain how 30% of american corn can cause such a huge rise in overall prices…remember there is only like a gazillion things to eat. (and please use facts and figures)

* facts and figures = a comprehensive image showing cause and effect. Please…Thank You.

So show me the money!

Zimbabwe is a classic example. Mugabe see's all the rich farmland the white farmers has and decides he and his cronies will take them over. The white farmers then leave and all of a sudden Zimbabwe goes from a net exporter of food to a net importer.

Remember this all started as a long grain rice shortage.

Yeah your right. I remember this. Also, in a world scheme of things, there is never one cause and effect.

That's why globalization sucks.

As long as you kept within your borders, Everyone would eventually adapt similar belief systems and everything was much more manageable and unity formed.
Now we are in debt so we are no longer our own masters.

flip wrote:Now we are in debt so we are no longer our own masters.

Look at it this way: the world isn't in debt! As a whole, I think we've been doing pretty well for ourselves.

Spidey wrote:I can pretty much guarantee that the number one factor in food costs is demand, then oil…so on.

Though I'll agree that there are less than intelligent governments around the world, I can't agree that demand is the number one factor. If I recall my basics of Economics correctly, there are two factors when it comes to prices. Demand and supply, you reduce the supply making it to food manufacturers, then they raise prices to reduce demand for the product. Trouble is that since it's a food item, depending upon what it is (if it's refined to corn syrup) or made into corn meal, etc.) demand won't decrease 'cause people gotta eat.

Now, that isn't to say that is the only reason, the prices of oil going up certainly doesn't help.

Why do people keep acting like corn is the only food people eat? Yes, the supply of corn is down, but the demand for all types of food is at an all time high.

TIGERassault wrote:

flip wrote:Now we are in debt so we are no longer our own masters.

Look at it this way: the world isn't in debt! As a whole, I think we've been doing pretty well for ourselves.

Thats because they all leach and beg off us and cry cry cry for more. We pay for the worlds comfort instead of helping our own poor out.

What did I eat today…

Tuna Mac…no corn (Wheat & Fish)
Potatoes…no corn (Potatoes)
Pretzel…no corn (wheat & salt)
Lasagna…no corn (wheat & beef…not corn fed)
Pizza… (wheat, tomatos, cheese, maybe some corn oil?)
Cantaloupe…no corn (fruit)
Mixed Grapes…no corn (more fruit)
Peanuts…no corn (peanuts)

You really should start reading ingredient labels more Spidey.

Don’t be coy, speak up, are you saying the minor amout of corn meal or corn starch or corn oil really makes a lot of difference? My point still stands…corn makes up no more than a few % of my diet. (except when I have a corn muffin, or corn fed meat)

If you put 1+1 together the rice shortage was caused by a general shortage of staple plants caused by favoring growing biofuel plants.

Enjoy your food while you can afford it

ref1
ref2
ref3

Ah, Spidey. Guess where high fructose corn syrup comes from. It's in a lot of processed foods (cookies, crackers, candy, ice cream, snack pastries, frozen dinners, etc.) and almost ALL soft drinks. Last I heard, corn was still being blended into cattle feed as well. There go beef prices!

Tell me something I don’t already know.

Then explain how something that is at best 5% of my food intake can be responsible for a 75% increase in the total costs (according to that study)

You can keep nitpicking at what I said, but I’m still waiting for someone to prove that study.

Good grief Spidey. Just look at the ingredients list on any processed foods you buy. Corn syrup or high fructose corn syrup is in just about everything! It takes a LOT of corn to produce it. That cost increase has to be added onto the price of our food. Add to that the reduction in the production of wheat and other crops because farmers can make far more money growing corn for ethanol production. With less of these other staple food crops being grown, they'll go up in price as well. It's a domino effect that starts adding up. If you're not satisfied with the original posted study, how many studies will it take to convince you?

Thanks Tunnel. I made the false assumption that Spidey understood that chain of affects.

Your ability to avoid corn in your diet is quite admirable, but the \"average American\" (if there truly is such an animal)doesn't take that kinda care. Most don't read labels. You would be lucky if they read the price tag on the shelf they were buying off of. (I exaggerate of course.)

That post seemed to indicate they want to scare us off of cleaner fuel sources.
I think hydrogen is really the best new alternative to oil, Considering we practically have a never ending supply of it.

Duper wrote:Thanks Tunnel. I made the false assumption that Spidey understood that chain of affects.

Your ability to avoid corn in your diet is quite admirable, but the "average American" (if there truly is such an animal)doesn't take that kinda care. Most don't read labels. You would be lucky if they read the price tag on the shelf they were buying off of. (I exaggerate of course.)

I don't consider myself average by a long shot; nevertheless I eat roughly the same things, with the same amount of corn products, as Spidey. Oh, and here's the best part: I don't effing avoid corn. I eat whatever I feel like eating. If it happens to be corn, oh well. More often than not it isn't, though. I think I can safely say that this goes for the rest of my immediate family as well, and they LOVE corn. They just don't EAT it in massive quantities. I guess we're a non-average family.

Has anyone here actually seen a 75% increase in food costs? I'm spending the same amount per month on food as I did back in '03.

I keep hearing people say such-and-such costs are up so-much percent, but it doesn't seem to hold true for me for anything but fuel. It seems like a lot of stats are being cherry-picked... like this recent piece; see the rebuttal.

So, I ask, who here has actually seen a drastic increase in their food costs?

It's increased a tiny bit for my wife and I, nothing drastic. Some of it probably has to do with moving from Oklahoma to Colorado.

Of course, we get nearly all our food as an end-consumer. It would probably be more informative to go ask around our local Farmer's Market about prices.

Diet Soda has had a high increase, from around $2, to around $4 per 12-pack.

I have seen a rise in the price of milk (which still mystifies me - I thought I was the only American who drank milk anymore?), and according to my mom the price of basically every foodstuff has gone up, but the price of everything else has gone up as well. That looks like inflation to me, although it could very well be the price of gas as well; after all, gas is used to transport virtually everything everywhere here in the US. In essence then, corn isn't responsible for the supposed 75% increase... gas and inflation are.

Oh, as a side note: my mom was shopping the other day and bought some generic-brand honey nut cheerios (wheat and oats, although it does contain some \"modified\" corn starch, whatever the hell that means), and she said that the generic-brand corn flakes were actually cheaper! I think that pretty much says it all.

Dakatsu wrote:Diet Soda has had a high increase, from around $2, to around $4 per 12-pack.

Heavy items would be expected though due to transport costs. Soda is very heavy. Besides, its only barely a food item.

MD-1118 wrote:Oh, as a side note: my mom was shopping the other day and bought some generic-brand honey nut cheerios (wheat and oats, although it does contain some "modified" corn starch, whatever the hell that means), and she said that the generic-brand corn flakes were actually cheaper! I think that pretty much says it all.

Last time I checked, Corn Flakes were always the cheaper cereals, mostly because they lack so many additives that other, more sugary cereals have.

Nearly 100% of the time generic foods are cheaper than the name brand counterpart. Many times it's the same company who just packaged the same food in a different way.

My sister brought home a few months ago one of those large plastic bags of cereal that has those little cardboard (to me at least) marshmallow pieces in it, saying that it was cheaper than the name brand (or the same price) but the bag was much bigger than what she would've gotten out of the name-brand-box.

TIGERassault wrote:Last time I checked, Corn Flakes were always the cheaper cereals, mostly because they lack so many additives that other, more sugary cereals have.

GM Honey Nut Cheerios Cereal:

Total Carbohydrate - 22g
Sugars - 9g

Source


GM Country Corn Flakes:

Total Carbohydrate - 25g
Sugars - 2g

Source

Big whup, seven grams out of thirty. That's how much more is in the Honey Nut Cheerios. That's General Mills, a name brand, however... I'm not sure what the local generic ratio is just yet. I do know that this particular brand of 'Toasted Oat Cereal' uses brown sugar instead of white sugar, and anyone who knows anything about sugar will tell you this:

Brown sugar is not only less sweet, it's less refined as well. Hence, it costs less than its white counterpart.

Gah, now I've gotten on a ramble.

d3jake wrote:Nearly 100% of the time generic foods are cheaper than the name brand counterpart. Many times it's the same company who just packaged the same food in a different way.

If you'd read my previous post carefully, you'd have noticed that I said

bought some generic-brand honey nut cheerios [...], and she said that the generic-brand corn flakes were actually cheaper

I can't make it any more obvious.

This is all fluff, though. My main point was, and still is:

Corn and/or modern plant-based fuels aren't the cause of the 75% increase in food stocks... that's a load of BS. Inflation and rising petrol (yes, I said it) prices are at fault.

Not surprising your grocery bill didn't change. Your load just got lighter..

Grendel wrote:Not surprising your grocery bill didn't change. Your load just got lighter..

Not the BABYBEL! That's just plain evil.

Which reminds me... mmm, cheese, my favourite non-corn food. Srsly, I ate a whole block of sharp cheddar last night. And half a pack of Kraft Singles. And almost a quart of 1% milk. What would you call a person whose diet primarily consists of dairy products? A lactotarian? 'Cos I guess that's what I am. Lucky me.

MD-1118 wrote:

Grendel wrote:Not surprising your grocery bill didn't change. Your load just got lighter..

Not the BABYBEL! That's just plain evil.

Which reminds me... mmm, cheese, my favourite non-corn food. Srsly, I ate a whole block of sharp cheddar last night. And half a pack of Kraft Singles. And almost a quart of 1% milk. What would you call a person whose diet primarily consists of dairy products? A lactotarian? 'Cos I guess that's what I am. Lucky me.

How about seriously constipated?

How about air pollution hazard!

MD-1118 wrote:

d3jake wrote:Nearly 100% of the time generic foods are cheaper than the name brand counterpart. Many times it's the same company who just packaged the same food in a different way.

If you'd read my previous post carefully, you'd have noticed that I said

I did read your post carefully, I was merely restating what you had said. Repetition isn't a bad thing, epically when it wasn't due to ignorance of a reader. Although you did say that the generic ones were cheaper, you didn't say that it is sometimes merely the same product packaged the same way as you were so kind to've quoted.

Grendel wrote:Not surprising your grocery bill didn't change. Your load just got lighter..

I buy based on price per weight, not total price. And when package sizes change (yes, I do notice these things) I often change my shopping habits to match. So no, the "shrink ray" is not to blame for my grocery bill.

It might help that I don't buy a lot of "packaged" foods anyway. Fresh fruits and veggies, meat, milk, and bread make up the bulk of my groceries.

I'm still wondering... has anyone here actually seen the sort of price increase that's being talked about? Has anyone here actually had their grocery bill shoot up significantly?

Can't say my grocery bill is much higher. Though I'll go on the record again and say that high fructose corn syrup is absolutely disgusting.

Take ketchup for example. Ketchup used to be kind of salty and tart. Now it's as sweet as maple syrup with a hint of tomato flavor. It's disgusting. It's like pouring sugar on your eggs and hash browns. I'd much prefer pouring on some fresh organic salsa. Damn, that's good!

I believe that the obesity epidemic and proliferation of HFCS are no coincidence. It's a shame that other countries far less industrialized than we are can enjoy REAL cane sugar while we are supposed to settle for processed crap.

Myself, I blame the corn lobby.

MD-1118 wrote:What would you call a person whose diet primarily consists of dairy products?

Fat.
Seriously though, regular milk has a ridiculously high amount of fat in it. It's really something you need to watch out for.

TIGERassault wrote:Fat.
Seriously though, regular milk has a ridiculously high amount of fat in it. It's really something you need to watch out for.

That's why I drink reduced-fat milk. Not like I need it, though... I'm a Shaggy lookalike. I think it's an insanely high metabolism.

Kyouryuu wrote:I believe that the obesity epidemic and proliferation of HFCS are no coincidence. It's a shame that other countries far less industrialized than we are can enjoy REAL cane sugar while we are supposed to settle for processed crap.

Why are we supposed to settle for refined sugar? I agree that it's crap, in fact I'd go a step further and say it's barely palatable, but do we really have to settle for the white shet? I realise it's different in other areas of the US, but here in Florida, cane sugar and brown sugar both sit right next to the white sugar (on the grocery shelves, that is). Also (and I know this has to be a fairly localised thing), I used to run down the road to my neighbor's yard and pick sugar cane. Yeah, I miss those days... that was before I moved into the city limits. D=

Lothar wrote:I'm still wondering... has anyone here actually seen the sort of price increase that's being talked about? Has anyone here actually had their grocery bill shoot up significantly?

I haven't seen it skyrocket dramatically, but I have seen it climb steadily over the past several months. I have a sneaking suspicion I'm not the only person to witness this, either.

d3jake wrote:I did read your post carefully, I was merely restating what you had said. Repetition isn't a bad thing, epically when it wasn't due to ignorance of a reader. Although you did say that the generic ones were cheaper, you didn't say that it is sometimes merely the same product packaged the same way as you were so kind to've quoted.

:: sigh :: I also didn't say that I was comparing generic brands to name brands. It was nice of you to bring that up, but I thought that most of the people frequenting this particular thread would already know that. Hence, redundancy. I.e., that to which I seem to have been driven regardless. No hard feelings, I just try to make myself as clear as possible, and when I muddle things up anyway I get frustrated with myself. It's a personality disorder called perfectionism. I'm sure you've heard of it.

Non-sense, it's all Tunnelcat's fault. If he learned how to fish there would be no problems at all.

Behemoth wrote:That post seemed to indicate they want to scare us off of cleaner fuel sources.
I think hydrogen is really the best new alternative to oil, Considering we practically have a never ending supply of it.

Not to tip the topic, but from where? The oceans? What fuels the electrolysis?

Sedwick wrote:Not to tip the topic, but from where? The oceans? What fuels the electrolysis?

Nah... all the hydrogen you could ever need is right here.

Paper got released, click.