DescentBB

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:11 pm**

Would this be a death threat? (Perhaps if it were Obama's effigy, action would be taken.)

Halloween Palin Prop Sparks Controversy In WeHo
WEST HOLLYWOOD, Calif. (AP) ― A Halloween decoration showing a mannequin dressed as vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin hanging by a noose from the roof of a West Hollywood home is drawing giggles from some passers-by and gasps of outrage from others.

The mannequin is dressed in brunet wig, glasses and a red business suit. Another mannequin dressed as John McCain emerges from a flaming chimney.

Chad Michael Morisette, who lives in the house, told CBS 2 News that drivers and bus passengers have been stopping to snap pictures of the macabre scene.

Morisette says the effigy would be out of bounds at any other time of year, but it's within the spirit of Halloween.

He says \"it should be seen as art, and as within the month of October. It's Halloween, it's time to be scary it's time to be spooky.\"

http://cbs2.com/local/Sarah.Palin.manne ... 49299.html

Will the secret service investigate?

Free speech? Perhaps, but would it be seen the same way with Obama hanging from a noose?

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:40 pm**

I think a white person hanging from a noose is a tad more acceptable than a black man hanging from a noose...which was quite popular in the mid-19th century up until the mid-60's (and later, depending on the state) Also with the KKK already making one attempt on Obama so far, and we all know why, I think there would be some jitters with a hanging Obama.

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:39 pm**

There's no law against being an a******. Neighbors should be the ones to deal with it, and if they don't care then...

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:54 pm**

So a double standard is acceptable?

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:02 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:So a double standard is acceptable?

Always has been in this country..

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:11 pm**

Grendel wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:So a double standard is acceptable?
Always has been in this country..

It's an industry, they call it journalism!

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:20 pm**

A double standard is never acceptable.

What do you think should be done about it?

Like I said, I think that there would have to be a consensus from the neighbors for any legitimate action to be taken. Personally I find it so distasteful that I would probably wreck it myself some night.

At least the Palin part. Or you could always target him for mass destruction by replacing it with an Obama statue in the middle of the night.

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:24 pm**

More nonsense.

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:56 pm**

Grendel wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:So a double standard is acceptable?
Always has been in this country..

In what way? Explain.

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:00 pm**

If you need that explained, you must live on mars!

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:19 pm**

I'm with Thorne on this (gasp!). The racial connotations vary, but neither one is acceptable. I don't care who it is, burning/hanging an effigy of an actual person is tasteless at best.

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:39 pm**

Perhaps an effigy of a Jew would be fine as well?

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:01 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:Perhaps an effigy of a Jew would be fine as well?

No it would not. Hanging effigies of presidential candidates running for office is one thing but hanging an effigy of a Jewish person for the sake of hanging it would be crossing the line.

My loyalty to you is waning with comments like this...

Bee

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:04 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:
Grendel wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:So a double standard is acceptable?
Always has been in this country..
In what way? Explain.

You are kidding, right ? Dude, you are allowed to vote, buy guns, drive, defend you country, have sex, at the age of 18 but you can't legally buy a beer until you are 21. The people against abortion won't allow sex-ed in school. Dark skinned ppl can use the N-word all they want, but if it comes from a melanin deprived person it's racism. You can't get a legal job w/o a social security number in the land of the free. If there's more than a square foot of uncovered skin in a movie it's rated R, if the skin is covered in blood it's rated PG. Need more ?

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:57 pm**

Grendel wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:
Grendel wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:So a double standard is acceptable?
Always has been in this country..
In what way? Explain.
You are kidding, right ? Dude, you are allowed to vote, buy guns, drive, defend you country, have sex, at the age of 18 but you can't legally buy a beer until you are 21. The people against abortion won't allow sex-ed in school. Dark skinned ppl can use the N-word all they want, but if it comes from a melanin deprived person it's racism. You can't get a legal job w/o a social security number in the land of the free. If there's more than a square foot of uncovered skin in a movie it's rated R, if the skin is covered in blood it's rated PG. Need more ?

So because those exist, this is acceptable?

btw- this isn't quite right:

Dark skinned ppl can use the N-word all they want, but if it comes from a melanin deprived person it's racism.

If my Indian friends said the N-word, they'd be accused of the same, if not attacked outright.

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:03 pm**

Bet51987 wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:Perhaps an effigy of a Jew would be fine as well?
No it would not. Hanging effigies of presidential candidates running for office is one thing but hanging an effigy of a Jewish person for the sake of hanging it would be crossing the line.

My loyalty to you is waning with comments like this...

Bee

Obama is a presidential candidate who happens to have african heritage (which in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter since we are all, in fact, african in origin.) Should our reactions be different if Palin was Jewish and hanged in effigy? Muslim? Hindu? What is the difference? In our humanity?

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:18 pm**

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the right to be rude, offensive and generally unpolitically correct a guaranteed right by the constitution? Not that I agree with being hateful to others, but it's a dangerous road to travel when people can't be who they are or say what they want to. I reserve the right to hurt anybody's feelings I wish too, and if they don't like it go ahead and bust me in the mouth. I'd rather have a busted lip than censorship.

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:50 am**

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig& ... gle+Search

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:06 am**

flip wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the right to be rude, offensive and generally unpolitically correct a guaranteed right by the constitution? Not that I agree with being hateful to others, but it's a dangerous road to travel when people can't be who they are or say what they want to. I reserve the right to hurt anybody's feelings I wish too, and if they don't like it go ahead and bust me in the mouth. I'd rather have a busted lip than censorship.

I understand your feelings on censorship but there are limits to everything. Suppose your 18 year old daughter is in hysterics because your neighbor across the street (who doesn't like you) hung a lifelike effigy of her dressed like a hooker.

Would you allow that?

Bee

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:40 am**

Sergeant Thorne marches around in front of city hall with a sign that reads, \"Busted Lip not Censorship!\"

Actually, I am not as concerned with \"freedom of speech\" as some people are, in a way. I am a great believer in living by the spirit of the law, not in allowing people to get away with murder under the letter of the law. This is why I personally don't see a problem with handling some things outside of the law, as it were. The law was never meant to protect a person while they harm someone else. If you'll remember from your early American history, duels used to be the preferred method of dealing with personal attacks--they didn't shrug it off as freedom of speech.

The way I see it, though, this cannot justly be misconstrued as a personal attack. Therefore I conclude that there is nothing legally wrong with what this guy is doing, and shouldn't be. So head on over there and give him an ear-full, and if you're going to bust his lip, try not to get caught.

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:49 am**

Lol my point exactly. I believe people should be able to express their feelings however they wish as long as they do not physically harm someone else. In the context of this thread of course. Now to physically attack someone is a different story. In the case that Bett presents, me and that guy would have a 1v1 quick time, but I wouldn't call the law on him and try to get him arrested because it would be a personal matter and therefore no ones business but mine and his.

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:10 pm**

flip wrote:In the case that Bett presents, me and that guy would have a 1v1 quick time, but I wouldn't call the law on him and try to get him arrested because it would be a personal matter and therefore no ones business but mine and his.

You and my dad think the same

but the man files charges and your arrested for assault, battery, trespassing, and a host of other things. Now you have lawyer fees, medical bills to pay, plus you now have a police record....and he gets to keep the effigy of your daughter hanging there. Now what do you do?

This is my point. Causing harm isn't just physical.

Bee

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:21 pm**

the man files charges and your arrested for assault, battery, trespassing, and a host of other things. Now you have lawyer fees, medical bills to pay, plus you now have a police record....and he gets to keep the effigy of your daughter hanging there. Now what do you do?

Heh now you make my point for me

and I answer with a quote:

So head on over there and give him an ear-full, and if you're going to bust his lip, try not to get caught. Wink

I can't be responsible for how the rest of the world conducts themselves. If I feel it's a just cause, well then I'll just have to suffer the consequences I guess. No one lives forever so why live like a curr dog?

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:22 pm**

Personally, I'd feel like walking over, getting in the guy's face, having that \"1v1\" then and there. Given my fencing background, maybe I'd challenge him to a duel, as Thorne mentioned.

More realistically, I'd talk with the guy. If he is a jerk and refuses to remove it, I'd threaten to sue him for defamation of character, public nuisance, and everything in between. Then if he still didn't back down and remove the effigy, I'd contact my lawyer, get an injunction to have it removed, and follow through with the suit. Of course I wouldn't like doing it that way, but it would be better than getting thrown in jail for assault because I beat the crap out of the guy.

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:07 pm**

If it was me I'd go over after dark and cut the thing down, set a bag of dog poo on his porch, set it aflame and then ring his door bell. Happy Halloween mofo.

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:07 pm**

flip wrote:
the man files charges and your arrested for assault, battery, trespassing, and a host of other things. Now you have lawyer fees, medical bills to pay, plus you now have a police record....and he gets to keep the effigy of your daughter hanging there. Now what do you do?
Heh now you make my point for me and I answer with a quote:
So head on over there and give him an ear-full, and if you're going to bust his lip, try not to get caught. Wink
I can't be responsible for how the rest of the world conducts themselves. If I feel it's a just cause, well then I'll just have to suffer the consequences I guess. No one lives forever so why live like a curr dog?

In this case it's not a just cause. He hung an effigy of your daughter because he hates you. Maybe your black, hispanic, white, jewish, or whatever. My point is that there are limits to everything...even freedom. To me, freedom is not a right of the individual but an earned privilege given to those in good standing.

Foil would sue for slander. The man's lawyer will counter with freedom of expression. It gets expensive and she's in the newspaper now.

or

My dad and Flip would find some friends to take it down and then proceed to break the man's arm with a promise for more to come if... (this works for me

)

or

You call the police, they come and order the man to take it down because there are laws protecting an innocent victim.

Which one makes sense.

Bee

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:39 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:So because those exist, this is acceptable?

Anyone said it is ?

The question really is if you had started this thread if it had been an obvious arab hanging there..

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:45 pm**

Bet51987 wrote:Foil would sue for slander. The man's lawyer will counter with freedom of expression. It gets expensive and she's in the newspaper now.

or ...

You call the police, they come and order the man to take it down because there are laws protecting an innocent victim.

We're essentially talking about the same thing: an appeal to the proper authorities based on laws which protect people from intentional harm (in this case, psychological harm to a minor, or possibly slander).

I was thinking of a civil suit because it would take time to legally establish that harm is being done. However, if you're right and the police would intervene immediately based on an applicable law, that would be a better solution.

----------

Back to the original topic, I wonder if the McCain/Palin effigies will stay up much longer. My guess is that it's already caused them quite a bit of trouble.

Posted: **Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:07 am**

...and now Obama.

Obama effigy found on U. of Kentucky campus

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - University of Kentucky authorities were investigating Wednesday who hanged an effigy of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama from a tree on campus.

College spokesman Carl Nathe said the effigy was found Wednesday morning. Police immediately took it down. A faculty member said he saw the effigy with a noose around its neck, hanging from a high tree branch.

University President Lee Todd said he planned to apologize to the Obama family on behalf of the school and that he is \"personally offended and deeply embarrassed by this disgusting episode.\"

Federal authorities have been notified, Todd said. He said the effigy violates the university's code of ethics and won't be tolerated.

\"I am outraged because we work very hard, every day, to build bridges across the divides,\" Todd said. \"Diversity and inclusion are among our most precious core values. Episodes like this serve only to erode our confidence in and respect for one another.\"

Mike Lynch, a faculty member who works in a building near where the effigy was found, said he saw it around 8:40 a.m. He described it as life-sized with a Barack Obama Halloween mask, a suit jacket and sweat pants.

\"This, as far as I'm concerned, says nothing—absolutely nothing—representative of this university or this community,\" he said.

Obama's Kentucky campaign director, Kenya McGruder, had no immediate comment.

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan declined to comment specifically on the situation, but said an effigy can suggest a threatening tone or be an attempt to intimidate. He said the agency is \"very proactive about addressing these matters.\"

It's the second time an effigy has been found on a college campus recently. George Fox University in Oregon, a small Christian college, punished four students who confessed to hanging a likeness of Obama from a tree.

That effigy was found in September with a message taped to it—\"Act Six reject.\" The message was targeted at participants of a scholarship program geared toward increasing the number of minority and low-income students and several Christian colleges, mostly in the Northwest.

In West Hollywood, Calif., authorities on Wednesday were looking into a Halloween display depicting a mannequin of GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin hanging from a noose. The display also displayed her running mate, John McCain, surrounded by fake flames.

At the University of Kentucky, Martin Luther King Jr. Cultural Center interim director Chester Grundy said he was outraged by the incident. A rally was being planned for 7 p.m. EDT Wednesday, where staff and student leaders are expected to speak in response, he said.

Gov. Steve Beshear called the incident \"embarrassing\" and \"deeply offensive.\"

\"This was not political speech. It was simply hate,\" he said.

Raoul Cunningham, president of the Louisville chapter of the NAACP, said he is still trying to sort out his feelings \"because there may be a double-meaning because Barack Obama is black, that he would be hung from a tree—that goes back to lynching.\"

John Johnson, executive director of the Kentucky Commission on Human Rights, called the action unacceptable even if it was a prank.

\"It's astonishing that somebody would do that at this day and time,\" he said. \"You would hope that our country has progressed further than that.\"

The context of this \"hanging\" is different in that it was totally anonymous and from a tree rather than a roof- and people will point to that and say it was racist and a truly offensive thing to do. However, should such distinctions be drawn between two human beings?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

Posted: **Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:19 am**

Grendel wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:So because those exist, this is acceptable?
Anyone said it is ?

The question really is if you had started this thread if it had been an obvious arab hanging there..

Less likely, perhaps- but just as unacceptable. Hanging effigies (even if it were "supposed to be" osama bin laden - or somesuch mass murderer) would be unacceptable to me because the reference could be vague and could be taken as a threat against all people of one stripe or another.

Posted: **Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:30 pm**

2 arrested for hanging Obama effigy on Ky. campus
By ROGER ALFORD - Associated Press Writer

LEXINGTON, Ky. -- A University of Kentucky student and another man were arrested Thursday, accused of hanging a life-sized likeness of Barack Obama from a tree on the campus.

The incident was one of several in recent weeks involving effigies of the presidential candidates or their running mates. No charges have been filed in four other cases that have made national headlines.

UK Interim Police Chief Joe Monroe said the men \"expressed remorse for a stunt that had gotten out of hand.\"
Click to learn more...

Arrested were Joe Fischer, 22, a UK student, and Hunter Bush, 21, both of Lexington. Both were being held at Fayette County Detention Center on charges of disorderly conduct related to the hanging of the effigy. They were also charged with burglary and theft at a fraternity house where police said the materials came from.

Lt. Tina Strange, a deputy jailer at the detention center, did not know who the men's attorneys were. She said they were each being held on $7,600 bond.

Monroe said the two men told detectives they decided to hang the effigy after seeing media reports about a Sarah Palin effigy in California.

Witnesses who saw the effigy Wednesday said it was life-sized with an Obama Halloween mask, a suit jacket and sweat pants. It was found hanging from a tree with a noose around its neck.

UK President Lee Todd said the effigy violates the university's code of ethics, and Fischer faces punishment that could include expulsion.

\"As outrageous and offensive an act as the effigy was, I truly believe it has mobilized our campus, the community and the state in an effort to battle racism,\" Todd said Thursday.

It was the second time in about a month such an effigy was found on a college campus. George Fox University, a small Christian college in Oregon, recently punished four students who confessed to hanging a likeness of Obama from a tree.

Meanwhile, a Redondo Beach, Calif., woman removed a Halloween effigy of Barack Obama that was hanging from her balcony with a butcher knife in its neck. She took it down Thursday after neighbors complained.

In West Hollywood, Calif., a man removed an effigy of GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin from his yard Wednesday after several weeks of complaints.

And in Clarksville, Ind., a man had hanged an inflatable doll made to look like Obama from a tree. He took it down Wednesday, and authorities said it didn't appear to violate any state laws.
Associated Press Writer Joe Biesk in Frankfort contributed to this report.

DescentBB

A lynching...

A lynching...

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