Windows 7 Beta

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:15 pm

Anyone else trying this out? I'm downloading it right now.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default.aspx

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:35 am

Yep. Have been for a couple days now.

I like it.

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:45 am

What specs do you need to run Windows 7? I'm in the market for a new laptop (I'm leaning towards a Satellite U400/M00 (Link: http://www.cybershop.net.au/Notebooks/U400M00.shtml) but I really don't want to be stuck with Vista - if the machine won't run it, then I'll get something else instead (suggestions welcome Budget is circa $1,400 AU.)

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:59 am

As far as i know, it requires the same as Windows Vista (and according to reviews, even with the same hardware it runs better than Vista).

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:01 am

Minimum recommended specs call for:

1 GHz 32-bit or 64-bit processor
1 GB of system memory
16 GB of available disk space
Support for DirectX 9 graphics with 128 MB memory (to enable the Aero theme)
DVD-R/W Drive
Internet access (to download the Beta and get updates)

And yes, like anything tech-related, these specs could change.

...................................................

Watch the calendar. The Beta expires on August 1, 2009. To continue using your PC, please be prepared to reinstall a prior version of Windows or a subsequent release of Windows 7 before the expiration date.

captain_twinkie · Post by **captain_twinkie** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:30 am

I've been running windows 7 now for about two weeks now and i absolutely love it uses about 500 MB less ram then vista does idle, and of the reviews I have been reading people have been able to run it fine with 1 GB of ram on 4 year old systems.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:32 am

Interesting. Almost tempted. Almost. I kind of need this computer to work now, so installing beta software would not be a good idea.

Sniper · Post by **Sniper** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:15 am

I just tried it out for about 5 minutes now and this is my initial impression: The interface updates have been made in the wrong direction. The new task bar at the bottom is very ugly and huge. Other subtle items, such as task bar popups and things are really designed poorly and look terrible.

Sedwick · Post by **Sedwick** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:35 am

Sniper wrote:The interface updates have been made in the wrong direction.

That's unfortunate. I think after the debacle that Vista became, MS can NOT afford to F this one up.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:42 am

Windows 7 is based on VISTA. That's the first mistake.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Just Great, another OS for everyone to whine about.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:55 pm

Now IS the time to whine about it, while it is in BETA. So they can change it

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:15 pm

Aus-RED-5 wrote:
Minimum recommended specs call for:

1 GHz 32-bit or 64-bit processor
1 GB of system memory
16 GB of available disk space
Support for DirectX 9 graphics with 128 MB memory (to enable the Aero theme)
DVD-R/W Drive
Internet access (to download the Beta and get updates)

And yes, like anything tech-related, these specs could change.

...................................................

Watch the calendar. The Beta expires on August 1, 2009. To continue using your PC, please be prepared to reinstall a prior version of Windows or a subsequent release of Windows 7 before the expiration date.

Thanks Red. Any word on how well older programs run on it? the most recent software I run was released in 2003 (Acrobat 6.0)

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:24 am

a tad slower than under XP.

creative hardware has issues with windows 7.

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:44 am

I'm linking it. All ready filling out a report on changes I like to see

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:00 am

Spidey wrote:Just Great, another OS for everyone to whine about.

Correction: It's the same OS, but with changes.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:22 am

The big question is how much better is 7 over xp? If not a whole lot then why would xp users want to convert?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:15 pm

Correction D3jake, most all OSs are the same, but with changes.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:37 pm

It's only a correction if I said something incorrect, I was not saying that the idea of rebranding the same OS is limited to vista. Though maybe you were just making a post for an excuse to use

again...

SirWinner · Post by **SirWinner** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:47 pm

d3jake wrote:Correction: It's the same OS, but with changes.

Not quite correct.

The Windows Vista "Virgin Stack" problem was a major step backwards... Instead of taking a known and very much working copy of the "Windows XP Stack" they reintroduced issues that had been resolved already in Windows XP!
- See http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm (Episode #51 for August 3, 2006)

They really messed up a lot of core processes and many other things in Windows Vista... See my note below about recompiling programs to run under Windows Vista!

Some of the major issues were fixed with Service Pack 1 but not the issue where programs that work great under Windows XP ... may not won't work properly or at all in Windows Vista!

---

Capm wrote:Now IS the time to whine about it, while it is in BETA. So they can change it

Oh really?

I have too many things to handle at the moment at work concerning updating my existing software products to work on Vista PC's.

First, I have to take those existing program's source code for each and upgrade it to use Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 or higher then use an external step to modify that EXE to bypass DEP (Data Execution Prevention) just to get the SAME EXE's that work without an issue on Windows XP to work on Windows Vista.

See: "editbin /nxcompat:no " + (full path and executable name)
- This disables the DEP check in all versions of Windows.

See these 2 links:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... S.80).aspx
- Copy the WHOLE line above for the first link!

http://blogs.msdn.com/ed_maurer/archive ... piler.aspx

Secondly, One of the issues that I have to deal with is a problem in Windows Vista where my program checks for conflicts with other programs in one of my suite of programs to prevent: (1) Interoperability issues between the programs; AND (2) more than ONE copy of the same program executable from running at the same time.

If either condition above is detected, then my programs' startup code will automatically unloading the program.

This code has to be slightly changed to work properly in Windows Vista.

---

If I get the time and a new Hard Drive for my Home PC, perhaps I could check "Windows 7" out later!

Too many programs that work great on Windows XP refuse to work on Windows Vista now... who is to say whether our favorite programs that work on Windows XP will work on code name "Windows 7"?

If my current "games" (such as Descent, Freespace, etc) programs don't work on "Windows 7" then "Windows XP" will be on my Home PC for a long time into the future!

*** Sigh! ***

---

I wrote off any hope of playing Halo 2 for the PC since it literally FORCED people to upgrade to Windows Vista just to play that ONE game... Gee Microsoft... NO !@#$%^&* (1-8 on the keyboard in uppercase) thanks!

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:08 am

Halo 2 isn't really worth upgrading for anyway, from what I understand.

It kind of rings alarm bells if you're having to disable data execution prevention in the first place, by the way. Wouldn't this mean the code is insecure?

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:08 am

I actually find Vista to be a nice OS as it matures. I use Vista Business 32-bit at work on an average machine and it works great. I am still XP/2000 at home though.

I downloaded Windows 7 and burned the ISO. Now I just have to figure out which PC I want to sacrifice to install it on.

SirWinner · Post by **SirWinner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:34 am

Sirius wrote:Halo 2 isn't really worth upgrading for anyway, from what I understand.

It kind of rings alarm bells if you're having to disable data execution prevention in the first place, by the way. Wouldn't this mean the code is insecure?

Halo 2 was just one reason that I didn't want to upgrade to Windows Vista!

As to the DEP disabling, there is NOTHING in my code that executes any data... that is why I was confused as to WHY DEP intercepts my programs and won't let them run in Windows Vista!

The issue ISN'T DEP but something deep inside of Windows Vista!

The same programs don't have DEP issues in Windows XP!

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:12 pm

I got it installed on my 2nd computer and I'm liking it so far. Had some driver issues but with a little work I got the XP drivers to fix the problem.

One issue I'm have is with windows update not liking my WSUS server and causeing exploare to crash but then I just log on to the local account and not the domain account it runs fine so it could b that I'm still running WSUS 2.0 and not 3.1 but eh that's not a show stopper for me cause how many people run a WSUS server at there house.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:03 pm

Well, I've gotten it installed. I haven't gotten drivers for everything yet, though I can honestly say that aside from the eye-candy, there's nothing that this OS has to offer that I want. I could be quite content to stay on XP for another few years.

Has anybody seen how well Descent3 plays yet?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:31 pm

Sirius wrote:Halo 2 isn't really worth upgrading for anyway, from what I understand.

yup. quite right there. pay over $100 to play a game that's already 2 years old (at the time)?? I think not. I echo the other responces already made in regards to this.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:24 am

I'm with a couple of others here - I've been using Vista on both a laptop and my gaming machine for well over a year now, and haven't had any issues with it. In fact, I'm about to upgrade my media box to Vista, as it has better ClearQAM support for the tuner card I'm getting.

Haven't seen the Windows 7 Beta yet; I'll probably wait for the usual driver issues to be more resolved.

-------

P.S. Halo 2 Vista was awesome.

Sniper · Post by **Sniper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:45 am

Foil wrote:...I've been using Vista on [my] laptop machine...and haven't had any issues with it.

I'll probably wait for the usual driver issues to be more resolved

Same here. Vista on my laptop has been running just fine, no problems. Which is a drastic difference from when I installed it when it first came out.

Friend here @ work has Windows 7 installed and is using it in his dev environment. Has had a few issues with everyday things not being supported

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:59 pm

Hasta la vista... baby. =P

Windows 7 better be better than Windows XP... or Microsoft is going to be stuck selling x-a-box

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:52 pm

Foil wrote:Haven't seen the Windows 7 Beta yet; I'll probably wait for the usual driver issues to be more resolved.

Well any i have ren across i used the vista driver and for my IDE Raide i used the XP driver

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:17 am

SirWinner wrote:First, I have to take those existing program's source code for each and upgrade it to use Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 or higher then use an external step to modify that EXE to bypass DEP (Data Execution Prevention) just to get the SAME EXE's that work without an issue on Windows XP to work on Windows Vista.

Forgive me, I work at Microsoft.

If you're getting DEP failures in your program, you should attach the debugger and see where it's failing. Generally when the CPU executes code on the heap it isn't the original intention and is the cause of a lot of exploits. DEP prevents this by killing the program before it can execute what appears to be injected code.

Yah, it does break compatibility with older programs, but this isn't unique to Windows. Many operating systems now support the NX bit and will have the same kinds of issues. And this isn't unique to Vista, DEP support was added in XP SP2.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:58 pm

I just got the Beta 7 installed... My biggest problem so far is that nvidia no longer supports nForce2 boards, so I had to download a modded driver to get things to work and it didn't go so smooth getting them in.

SirWinner · Post by **SirWinner** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:22 pm

Topher,

Thanks for the feedback.

If it is a DEP Failure in Windows Vista, then is there a particular reason that my executable program doesn't have the same DEP Failure with DEP ON in Windows XP using the SAME executable?

At the time when I did the DEP workaround, the program had to be used for a potential customer.

I have been so busy since then that there hasn't been time to find out the root cause.

---

One of the other issues that bothered me a lot was calling a Standard Windows call to get the Processes / Programs that are currently running would crash in Windows Vista for no apparent reason.

I found a workaround that let the logic work in Windows XP and Windows Vista while allowing the program to get the Processes List.

The reason that I use the call to get the Processes List is to allow me to check on how many copies of my existing program are running as well as to check for any programs within my software suite that might conflict with another program within that suite.

If either one occurs during the Form Load Process, then the program automatically unloads itself before finishing the loading process.

I also use the same logic to prevent launching a program that is already running.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:37 pm

Well, the zip file extraction leaves something to be desired in W7, takes forever then doesn't finish extracting the file. I downloaded jzip and it works perfect.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:44 pm

I always disable the built in zip support in any version of Windows, I prefer the way 7-zip's shell extension handles it and the speed is just a bonus.

Although much to my annoyance the simple command to remove built in zip support doesn't work in Vista, no more \"regsvr32 /u zipfldr.dll\". But deleting a couple registry entries and rebooting accomplishes the same thing, although not as quickly or easily.

The other shell extension I always kill is wmpshell.dll, rid yourself of all the annoying \"play/queue/burn/etc with windows media player\" clogging up your folder context menus.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:27 am

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:48 pm

What services did you shut down? Did you keep a list?

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:40 am

Admiral LSD · Post by **Admiral LSD** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:47 am

I've been running this as the main OS on my Athlon x2 for a few weeks now. I had a slight mishap with the original XP install forcing me to reformat it anyway so I figured I'd throw it on instead of dual-booting. The best way to evaluate something is to throw yourself into the deep end, right? Anyway, I'm liking it so far. I went for the 64 bit version as I had the hardware and I figured Win7 would be an appropriate time to make the jump.

I'm liking it so far. It actually feels faster than XP on the same hardware. I'm not sure whether that's because it's 64 bit or if it's the result of any performance tuning MS have done but I like it. A number of the annoyances I had with the Vista betas have been toned down or fixed entirely which is nice. It's not entirely flawless though. UAC still has its quirks, antivirus software needs to be updated to support something about the new OS (I had near-constant BSODs in tdx.sys until I removed AVG though internet research indicates other A/V software has similar issues) and full screen OpenGL needs sorting out but for a beta it's still surprisingly usable.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:11 am

Windows 7 Beta

Windows 7 Beta

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