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Muslim women \"struggle\" in the US

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:35 pm
by Nightshade
As was the case with the beheading of a \"disobediant wife,\" muslim women face more than just adjustment anxiety when they come to the US; they can be in mortal danger if they dare try to exercise more freedom even within the United States.

\"Last month, Buffalo resident Aasiya Hassan, 37, was found decapitated after she had been complaining to police about domestic violence. Her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, was charged with the crime.\"
\"The typical Muslim man, they always are very overprotective, they're very controlling over the women. They're not allowed to do this, they're not allowed to do that,\" says 23-year-old Fai Oman, who was born in Yemen.

She says she feels lucky to be living in the West because she has more freedom and security than she would have in her home country.

Taking on Western viewpoints and a less traditional look makes Oman stand out in the typical female Muslim community. She dresses in jeans and a low-cut sweater. Her dark hair is highlighted with blonde streaks, and her eyes are colored with bright blue shadow.

Some Islamic leaders fear women like Oman will become more common and that Western culture will have too much influence over generations of Muslim women who grow up and live in America.

\"It does worry me because it's improper behavior [that] does lead to ... harm to the female,\" said Yemen native Sakainah Faleh, a teacher who tutors young Muslim girls in the proper ways of Islam.
This rediculous statement is illustrative - \"It does worry me because it's improper behavior [that] does lead to ... harm to the female\"

We must not lose sight of the fact that people are being denied their human rights in our very own country because a religion dictates they are \"less than\" a man. Political correctness seems to overlook these offensive values because they are part of a \"diversified cultural experience.\"

Political correctness is the enemy within and it must be defeated.

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Muslim Women in U.S. Struggle to Balance Western Freedoms and Islamic Culture

DEARBORN, Mich. — The \"call to prayer\" is a sound heard five times a day in this city, but this is not the Middle East. It’s Dearborn, Michigan — which has one of the largest Arab-American populations in the U.S.

Like other immigrant groups, many came here years ago in search of a better life. In the past few decades, the auto industry needed workers, so Michigan became a top destination.

Over time, thousands of the Muslim faithful from around the world settled here, opening shops and restaurants and turning Dearborn into a heavily Muslim-influenced community, replete with mosques in every section of town and traditional foods from places like Pakistan and Syria.

But while there are plenty of comforts from their home countries, Muslim women say they’re constantly caught balancing their lives between the freedoms they have in Western culture and the restrictions they face from religious and societal pressure. They worry about whether they’re following the habits of \"a good Muslim woman.\"

Zeinab Fakhreddine, a Lebanese-American woman raised in Dearborn, walks down the street wearing a traditional two-piece suit and a Muslim headscarf, called a hijab. The scarf covers her hair and tightly frames her face. She says the hijab was designed as a way to honor women in Islam, by concealing their beauty.

In her community, she says, so many women are dressed this way, nobody looks twice at her. \"It's kind of like a comfort zone in Dearborn, but when you leave here, it kind of becomes very different.\"

Outside Dearborn, it's a different story.

Despite the fact that Islamic groups are growing in major cities in the U.S., many Muslim women living here say assimilating into Western culture is still very difficult.

Many of the immigrant women come to the United States from Muslim countries where they have few rights. Women are not allowed to drive cars or keep their own passports in Saudi Arabia, for example. It is very difficult for a woman to go to school or even leave her home without a male relative escorting her in parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

In fact, life for Muslim women in the U.S. is so different that they say they're not sure whether to accept the sudden opportunities they have here, or reject them for fear that it doesn't fit within their religious followings.

\"In our religion it's forbidden to listen to music and there’s some areas that we stay away from ... because we don’t listen to music,\" said Fakhreddine.

Also under Islam, it's acceptable for a man to have up to four wives at a time. While that's illegal in the United States, Islamic leaders say the religion designates the man as the head of the household.

\"The big decisions are from the husband. Actually, we have to discuss everything with them,\" says Umia Mustafa, who moved here from Pakistan 10 years ago, after her parents arranged her marriage to a Pakistani man already living here.

She says in her religion, no matter where it’s practiced, there's no question who is in charge.

And sometimes clashes of cultures can have deadly consequences.

Last month, Buffalo resident Aasiya Hassan, 37, was found decapitated after she had been complaining to police about domestic violence. Her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, was charged with the crime.

While Muslim leaders caution against stereotypes and point out that domestic violence happens in all cultures, some women's rights leaders worry that Islam is being used to justify violence against women.

\"The typical Muslim man, they always are very overprotective, they're very controlling over the women. They're not allowed to do this, they're not allowed to do that,\" says 23-year-old Fai Oman, who was born in Yemen.

She says she feels lucky to be living in the West because she has more freedom and security than she would have in her home country.

Taking on Western viewpoints and a less traditional look makes Oman stand out in the typical female Muslim community. She dresses in jeans and a low-cut sweater. Her dark hair is highlighted with blonde streaks, and her eyes are colored with bright blue shadow.

Some Islamic leaders fear women like Oman will become more common and that Western culture will have too much influence over generations of Muslim women who grow up and live in America.

\"It does worry me because it's improper behavior [that] does lead to ... harm to the female,\" said Yemen native Sakainah Faleh, a teacher who tutors young Muslim girls in the proper ways of Islam.

She's concerned about Muslim women straying too far from the religion, she says.

But Muslim leaders like Amina Aharif, from the Council on American Islamic relations (CAIR), say that with so many women coming here from multiple Muslim countries, there are already different viewpoints and traditions influencing them.

Each comes to the United States with her own versions of cultural and religious practices, she adds.

\"Just like America is a melting pot for people from all over the world, it is a melting pot for Muslims from all over the world,\" said Aharif. \"It is such a diverse community.\"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511275,00.html

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:35 pm
by Tunnelcat
I say tough luck Muslim men. If you want live in our country, you have to follow and conform to our laws and our ideals of freedom. Murdering your wife because of some religious ideal or failing is not an excuse and is ILLEGAL in the U.S. Conform to our society or go back to Saudi Arabia if you don't like it!

Even though we are a Christian nation, we don't allow the Biblical act of the stoning of women here for 'perceived' female indiscretions or violations. There is latitude and common sense here when it comes to religious dogma.

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:17 pm
by SilverFJ
This nation is as far fron Christian as anywhere else... We're an Obamanation.

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:35 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
tunnelcat wrote:Even though we are a Christian nation, we don't allow the Biblical act of the stoning of women here for 'perceived' female indiscretions or violations. There is latitude and common sense here when it comes to religious dogma.
Stoning is something that has a place in Biblical history (in the "old covenant"), tunnelcat. It is not a Biblical act.

You don't know what you're talking about.

BECAUSE we're a Christian nation we don't allow the stoning of women!!
John 8 (NKJV) wrote:1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. 7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."
Matthew 1 (NKJV) wrote:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."
"Latitude and common sense?" Is there any other part of history you'd like to blithely contribute to reinventing while we're about it?

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:13 pm
by SilverFJ
TunnelCat wrote:Even though we are a Christian nation, we don't allow the Biblical act of the stoning of women here for 'perceived' female indiscretions or violations.
John 8:7 wrote: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
The Obama comment was a joke of course, but as you see here, TC, not stoning women here is a pretty Christian thing...

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:14 pm
by SilverFJ
Oh, crap, I just realized Thorne covered that already...thats what I get for not reading ahead.

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:24 pm
by Spidey
Skimmer….stone him!

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:09 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
The U.S. cannot coerce Muslims into compliance where the woman is willingly submitting to their requirements. That is where \"cultural diversity\" comes in. When it's against the woman's will then all bets are off. We have laws, and they must be held to those laws. You've got a problem if you're advocating fighting this on anything more than an individual scale, judicially, TB, because in order to bring the whole thing down you would have to prove that Islam is overtly oppressive as a rule (or organizationally). A possibility, maybe... in some places. I think that Muslim teacher's quote indicates that it is a tendency, but it doesn't prove that it's a rule. Saving people from themselves by force is wrong, and its unAmericana. People have a right, within reason (when it doesn't harm others), to do whatever they will with their own lives (\"... liberty, and the pursuit of happiness\").

I would say clamp down diligently where they are in violation of our laws, and hope they receive the light to escape a dead, oppressive religion. Above and beyond that all one can do is persuade them that Islam is wrong, and I doubt many people have the moral foundation to do that.

(You could have edited, FJ. I'm glad someone else noticed it.)

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:35 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
I'm afraid you've taken up a compromised (illegitimate) position, if you're desiring that what is essentially an ideology be taken on, attacked and defeated through political or legal means, Thunderbunny. That at least seems to be a tenor of your post.

I mean if you're wanting to make people aware of the political and legal ramifications of Islam, then more power to you, but you I think you need to be careful to do one without getting into the other, because that is not a legitimate cause. Our government was not created to enforce perfection, it was created to enable justice.

(I know there's a better word than \"enable\"...)

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:17 pm
by flip
I agree with Thunderbunny on this one. Political Correctness is the #1 enemy of free speech and a sense of individualism.

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:38 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
I think that's true. Don't misunderstand me. I'm absolutely against political correctness.

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:29 pm
by Tunnelcat
Sergeant Thorne, sorry I let this one drop without a reply. It fell off my radar.

I was referring to the actual laws of stoning, specifically listed in the Jewish Torah, or Old Testament of the Bible. There are ten laws that specifically have stoning as a punishment IN THE BIBLE. Now I'm pretty sure that the Old Testament is considered part of the Christian Bible. Only with Jesus, as you pointed out, did some common sense, forgiveness and sympathy creep into the tome concerning capital punishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning

Three notable ones are:

'Cursing God', 'Rebelling against parents' and 'Getting married pretending to be a virgin while not actually being one'. I'm pretty sure that most of us have violated these laws at one time or another and there are probably quite a few women that would fall under 'lying about their virginity to their husbands' one. A few teenagers have failed the 'Rebelling against parents' one also.

My point is if we followed the Old Testament of the Bible instead of the New Testament, or even followed some Jewish Biblical laws because of our nation's religious heritage, we would have stoning as a punishment NOW, as do many Islamic nations. People keep saying that we are a Judeo-Christian nation and that's the reason we don't allow stoning. How come the Jews don't stone people for violating the Torah? They don't believe in Jesus, so they must have had some other reason to change their application of old Biblical Laws. Hmmmmmm?

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:52 pm
by SilverFJ
Stoning still happens in the middle east. It's up to the people who do it whether they're following their faith or not.

And once the covenant of Jesus' death happened a lot of the old laws for man were repealed, making the old testament more of a guidebook of faith and examples of how to live unflinchingly for God.

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:42 pm
by Tunnelcat
That doesn't explain why the Jews don't stone people for capital crimes today. They believe in the Old Testament or 'Torah' and it's laws. Where did their new modern morality come from? We in the U.S. still reguard the Ten Commandments as part of our nation's foundation for most of our laws, so we're still using the Old Testament as well. But ONLY the parts we choose that fit our modern vision of morality it seems.

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:02 pm
by SilverFJ
me wrote:It's up to the people who do it whether they're following their faith or not.
Your constant use of "they" and "their" is rediculous, it's up to the individual, you can't base an entire nation's ethics on a religoious faith. Generalization is inapplicable.

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:29 pm
by Tunnelcat
People in the U.S. keep saying we are a Judeo-Christian Nation and that most of our laws are based on religious teachings, don't you agree? I'm only asking why do the Jews, who follow the Old Testament and don't believe in the teachings of Jesus, no longer have stoning as a capital punishment, while Islamic Nations, citing the Koran, still practice it. What's changed in our societies that hasn't in theirs? Are they more backward or more fervent when applying law based on their religion?

What I'm getting at is there must be some new reasons or attitudes that Christians and Jews, in their modern societies, have moved away from some of the more brutal Biblical punishments and attitudes. Long after Jesus, more than a thousand years removed from His time, the Middle Ages had some of the most barbaric tortures and punishments in human history, carried out by or at the behest of religious leaders. Can you say 'The Inquisition'? Jesus's teachings sure didn't influence Christians and their application of the law back then, unfortunately for the suffering of many. What's happening now that wasn't happening then?

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:59 pm
by Spidey
It’s called modernity.

Re:

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:09 pm
by Lothar
tunnelcat wrote:the Middle Ages had some of the most barbaric tortures and punishments in human history.... Jesus's teachings sure didn't influence Christians and their application of the law back then
I would hardly call the people in power "Christians" during that era. They were mainly just people who happened to be using the region's most popular religion for their own benefit. And it's not as though the general population had Bibles or could read and disagree with their leadership. As knowledge of Jesus' teachings increased, violence decreased.

As for Jews, I think there's an understanding that all of those punishments were established for a specific kingdom at a specific point in history. They weren't meant to be "the way to govern forever", and certainly aren't held as the standard for the secular cultural-Jewish government of Israel ("religious" Jews are a minority, but few of them think the ancient government should be reinstated.)

One key to Islamic teaching is that Muhammed's way remains the perfect way forever. Depending on how literal one chooses to be on that front, that might imply such things as marrying 8-year-olds (Aisha was perhaps 7 when betrothed, and 9 when the marriage was consummated.) Because much of the Islamic world is still under tyranny, it's hard for those who disagree with such literalism to have their voices heard; the generally modern and liberal Iranian people, for example, are often not heard over the voices of their fundamentalist Mullahs.

Re:

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:42 pm
by Tunnelcat
Lothar wrote:I would hardly call the people in power "Christians" during that era. They were mainly just people who happened to be using the region's most popular religion for their own benefit.
And religious leaders cloaking themselves as "Christians" aren't still abusing their power for some type of gain today? It still goes on now. So are they just 'misguided' Christians, like Ted Haggart, Jim Baker or Fred Phelps or just faux or non-Christians. Did the Catholic Church just have a 'misguided Christian leadership' back in Medieval Times? Weren't they the mainstream Christian Church around in Europe other than the Greek Orthodox Church. A lot of bad things were sanctioned at their behest. I'm pretty sure they considered themselves 'Christian' back at the time. In fact they considered themselves the 'one and only Christian Church' back then, all others were a heresy to be quashed.

I agree that Christianity and Judiaism have 'modernized' with the times and that Islam is still locked in the past. That may be a reason that many Arabic Nations are still mostly tribal in nature, slow to change and adopt modern practices.