DescentBB

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/1299981.html

So the best fix for the gas tax becoming ineffective in the face of higher milage cars is to levy a milage tax. Sure I can see how that could work (so long as they get rid of the gas tax, but we all know that will never happen).

But their solution to collect the mileage data is to install a GPS on every car and have it report back how many miles the car has gone? Sure a GPS can keep track of milage, but it can also keep track of the location of the vehicle at all times, where it has been, and when it went there. The potential for abuse and invasion of privacy is huge. Do they honestly expect us to believe them when they say they will ONLY use it to track milage? If milage is all they need then is there something wrong with the odometer in most cars that would prevent them from being used instead? The vehicle computer is already quite capable of keeping track of the milage without the need to install a GPS that is also able to track your every move. Not to mention the cost of installing a GPS tracker in every single car on the road...

They call it a no-brainer, well they are definitely among the most qualified people on earth to make that statement.

So how long before a signal blocking piece of gear will be blackmarketed?

SO!!!! when exactly will I be required to pay this Mileage tax?? everytime I fill up??? or at the end of the year on my income taxes?????

It seems logical that actual road usage makes more sense to fund highways than fuel does. But, miles alone don't cut it. Usage also includes weight, driving habits and patterns, etc. Once again, someone takes a simple problem and comes up with a hugely expensive and complicated solution for it. It would make a helluva lot more sense to me to just tax tires, no?

or hey!

How about they use the money they HAVE more effectively! ... or would they need to create 20 different departments for that too like a couple of other things some of the bills up for grabs are forcasted to do.

You're right Krom, it's a no brainer.

Will they get rid of the gas tax? pffft. yeah, right. Ya know, this wasn't an issue back in the 70's when we went through this \"Gas crisis\" thing before and suddenly cars were getting 30 to 40 miles per gallon! What a load of crap.

A GPS receiver used to track movement? NO WAY! I don't want Big Brother tracking every single place I go, how long I am where, and as Krom said, a vehicle's computer is certainly capable of recording mileage. The mention of GPS speaks socialism/fascism to me; it's another subtle way the government can impose itself.

Would the per-gallon tax be repealed? Not likely; knowing how the government's been doing fiscal policy the last 10 years it'll get sucked up in all the red tape and misuse of power, and all will do is help the federal government get bigger and bigger.

I can see it now...a monthly statement showing how many times I exceeded the speed limit, how many yellow lights I went through etc. etc. each with a nice fine attached to it!
And what about insurance companies lobbying to get access to the data, automobile policies canceled or raised for driving too fast, life insurance policies the same way...

I already operate three gas guzzling 3/4 ton trucks and pay my Exxon tax to the tune of a couple thousand dollars a month. I'd hate to figure out the additional cost to operate with the usage tax hanging over me!

No thanks on the usage tax!!

woodchip wrote:So how long before a signal blocking piece of gear will be blackmarketed?

You'd be stupid to buy one. It's not really that hard to create your own faraday box with something like a cookie tin.

Welp, time to write your local officials. I think if they are going to install GPS to tally mileage, then a better idea would be a single purpose device instead. (electronic odometer)

You just can’t argue against that the people who use the roads should pay for them, and the more you use them, the more you should pay.

I wish everything worked that way. (/me holds up his fingers in a cross configuration, to the socialists)

Why use a GPS device anyway? All these government bozos have to do is record the vehicle's odometer mileage during license renewal time and have on record the vehicle's curb weight (that you would obtain when you first register for tags). When I lived in Washington State, we owned a small SUV that was considered a truck (at the time) and we had to go to the truck scales to have it weighed in order to license it.

I don't need no stinking GPS black box tracking my vehicle and my travels. Too many chances for government or even police abuse.

It would have to be a device that could report mileage on a regular basis, or you would have to pay your taxes all at one time each year, or report to a reading station periodically.

I think something that could simply read your milage at the gas station would work. The little van comes around and reads my water meter.

Someone had that idea here in Oregon, but then it vanished.

I concur with most or all of the opinions presented in this thread.

snoopy wrote:

woodchip wrote:So how long before a signal blocking piece of gear will be blackmarketed?

You'd be stupid to buy one. It's not really that hard to create your own faraday box with something like a cookie tin.

I would hack it so all it could do is report miles traveled, but nothing about position, velocity, elevation, or anything of the like. That way, I can rest assured Big Brother would not abuse the abilities of the GPS device. Or, I could make a homemade Faraday cage...

On a tangent, I've heard rumors that Congress has considered or is considering legislation limiting the age of cars and the miles they can drive; I don't know what the odometer limit would be, but I heard 8 years old would be the oldest for a car. I'll look it up.

Here's a question for you all. If you drive for a company Who is going to pay for the tax? Will the businesses that are in the business of driving going to put up with that. I for one drive over a 100,000 miles a year just delivering around the St Louis area. That could add another 1000 to 2000 per vehicle the company owns.

The commission favors the higher-tech approach, in part, because far more can be done with it. For example, it could be tailored to help reduce traffic congestion by charging different rates throughout the day.

Oh boy Congestion pricing are we sure we are ready for this? The first implementation of such a scheme was Singapore Area Licensing Scheme in 1975, together with a comprehensive package of road pricing measures, stringent car ownership rules and improvements in mass transit. Thanks to technological advances in electronic toll collection, electronic detection, and video surveillance technology, collecting congestion fees has become easier. Singapore upgraded its system in 1998, and similar pricing schemes were implemented in Rome in 2001, London in 2003 with extensions in 2007; Stockholm in 2006, as seven month trial, and then on a permanent basis.In January 2008 Milan began a one-year trial program called Ecopass, charging low emission standard vehicles and exempting alternative fuel vehicles and vehicles using conventional fuels but compliant with the Euro IV emission standard. The Ecopass program was extended until December 31, 2009, and a public consultation will be conducted to decide if the charge becomes permanent.

Zantor wrote:...

On a tangent, I've heard rumors that Congress has considered or is considering legislation limiting the age of cars and the miles they can drive; I don't know what the odometer limit would be, but I heard 8 years old would be the oldest for a car. I'll look it up.

I have a car that is 21 years old, it may burn fuel a little less clean than newer cars but what is the carbon footprint of my 21 year old car compared to the carbon footprint of manufacturing and selling me a new car every 4 or 5 years like most people consume?!?

Will Robinson wrote:

Zantor wrote:...

On a tangent, I've heard rumors that Congress has considered or is considering legislation limiting the age of cars and the miles they can drive; I don't know what the odometer limit would be, but I heard 8 years old would be the oldest for a car. I'll look it up.

I have a car that is 21 years old, it may burn fuel a little less clean than newer cars but what is the carbon footprint of my 21 year old car compared to the carbon footprint of manufacturing and selling me a new car every 4 or 5 years like most people consume?!?

there is a larger environmental impact to manufacture a Prius, than there is to manufacture a Suburban and drive it to 100,00 miles

CUDA wrote:there is a larger environmental impact to manufacture a Prius, than there is to manufacture a Suburban and drive it to 100,00 miles

Linky?

http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automot ... entary.pdf

this comparison is actually for a Prius VS a Hummer over its life span

The Prius registered an energy-cost average of $3.25 per mile driven over its expected
life span of 100,000 miles. Ironically, a Hummer, the brooding giant that has become the
bête noir of the green movement, did much better, with an energy-cost average of $1.95
over its expected life span of 300,000 miles. And its crash protection makes it far safer
than the tiny Prius.

http://www.productivity501.com/cost-vs- ... sited/219/

Cars like a Rolls Royce, Bentley and Maybach cost somewhere a little above $10 per mile to drive. Here is a list of the hybrid vehicles:

Honda Insight ($2.94 per mile)
Ford Escape Hybrid ($3.18 per mile)
Honda Civic Hybrid ($3.24 per mile)
Toyota Prius ($3.25 per mile)
Honda Accord Hybrid ($3.30 per mile)
Here are the top 10 least expensive cars from a total energy consumed perspective. (Note: This is energy cost, not purchase price.):

Scion xB ($0.48 per mile)
Ford Escort (0.57 per mile)
Jeep Wrangler ($0.60 per mile)
Chevrolet Tracker ($0.69 per mile)
Toyota Echo ($0.70 per mile)
Saturn Ion ($0.71 per mile)
Hyundai Elantra ($0.72 per mile)
Dodge Neon ($0.73 per mile)
Toyota Corolla ($0.73 per mile)
Scion xA ($0.74 per mile)
I was pretty surprised to see Jeep Wrangler on the list. However I think it is showing up not because of its great gas mileage but because the average lifespan of a Wrangler is 207,000 miles, while the average vehicle is only driven for 178,000 miles. This is inline with my previous statement that the longer you can keep a car running the smaller your total footprint. The Hummer H3 was an interesting surprise at $1.949 per mile. That is still a pretty expensive vehicle in terms of the amount of energy used, but it still beats every one of the hybrids.

Studies like these are one of the reasons people should not fall for industry propaganda, when considering what car to buy.