DescentBB

\"The deficits -- $10 billion in 2010 and $9 billion in 2011 -- won't affect payments to retirees because Social Security has accumulated surpluses from previous years totaling $2.5 trillion. But they will add to the overall federal deficit.\"

So how is that possible? After all the 29 billion shortfall is a mere fraction of the 2.5 trillion surplus.
the answer is here but the question is rhetorical

The creators of this epic failure of money management (your money by the way, not theirs) want to vote for a another giant spending spree and create another bureaucratic monstrosity which they will manage just like they managed your \"Social Security Fund\"....and they refuse to allow the details to be made public....they won't even read the details themselves before they vote on it...

So, how many of you will vote for them in the next election?!?!

Will Robinson wrote:So, how many of you will vote for them in the next election?!?!

And you expect that if we vote for someone else somehow things will be different?

Will Robinson wrote:they won't even read the details themselves before they vote on it...

They didnt read the first stimulus spending bill, so why should they start now.

Krom wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:So, how many of you will vote for them in the next election?!?!

And you expect that if we vote for someone else somehow things will be different?

If a vast majority of us voted for any alternative it would change things in a BIG way!

Both of the 'big two' parties would be scrambling to alter their platform to bring in as many disgruntled voters as they could. To accomplish that there would be years of intense study, speculation, polling, pontification and editorializing of "what went wrong?" and "what do they want?" resulting in opportunity for real change not just that campaign promise kind. Independant free thinking statesmen could emerge and not be afraid of running without a big party affiliation.

As soon as one rogue candidate for senator or congressman appeared to be jumping out front and gaining popular support because of his independent leadership there would be a race to be the candidate to get out in front of the 'old guard' and be the fresh new brand in each election in every district and state.

I can guarantee one thing besides death and taxes to be certain:
If we don't do something to shake up the status quo of the electoral/representation system it will NEVER CHANGE and it will NEVER GET BETTER.

Just look at the gallery of egotistical thieves and liars we have now! How could you possibly do any harm to the system by taking this chance?!? For the love of reason people, go vote against them all!!!!

The health care debate is fought by the pimps in congress and all of you think you know which pimp you prefer..which pimp you want to work for because he/she is the one who cares about your future. Well regardless of which side of the debate you are on the only ones who really have a good health plan are THE PIMPS in Congress and we all pay for it or go to jail no matter how poor we are!
The retirement future you try to save for...big debate...left..right....different plans....the only ones with a real retirement fund? THE PIMPS in congress...BOTH SIDES!!!...but you don't get some of that security even though you paid for it NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOU ARE ON!!!

The wars we fight are not caused by a need to defend against an invading army! The economic catastrophes are not the result of drought or resources drying up!
They are the result of bad or negligent decisions made by greedy bastards who sold their souls to the devil to stay in power! And you are worried about keeping some of them in power?!??! You actually think the solution lies in that sub-group's hands?!?! WAKE UP people!!

The one-party-disguised-as-two is counting on the same old trick to keep you all on your same familiar side of the plantation, the fear that the other side will benefit from your casting your vote outside of the 'party' box.
You should be wondering what if they had to focus on all the common sense improvements that people on both sides of their artificial divide would support instead of focusing on how to project all issues through the prism of their party survival priorities!!
You should be that brave to think that way since the last time we had any kind of risk takers shape the future of this great opportunity we call a country the risks were literally deadly and many of them gave all to get us here!! You should definitely think about that next time you bother to squeeze the voting process into your busy schedules of video games and whining about ★■◆●.

(note, I direct these comments at myself as much as anyone who reads this)

It’s going to take more than just voting in different people, the system as it stands corrupts the people who enter it.

I wish it were that easy.

Spidey wrote:It’s going to take more than just voting in different people, the system as it stands corrupts the people who enter it.

I wish it were that easy.

I'm all over that one, a few tweaks to the existing laws and you could have your country back.
for starters:
*No lobbiests.(there are alternative voices for special interest groups and corporations)
*No donations from non voting entities.
*Weighted vote counting (list your picks in order of preference)
*Limits on campaign donations and spending.
*Federal funded campaign air time.
*Replace the income tax code(read:loophole bible) with the FairTax or some version of it.(this will neuter congress Bigtime!)


There will always be ways for them to fail us or get greedy and take a little here and a little there but it could be so much better. We've let the inmates run the asylum for too long.

Will, this was on the Supreme Court's recent docket, Citizens United v. FEC, and it has direct relevance to whether the U.S. will be run by corporations or it's citizens in the future. Remember too, John Roberts has favored corporate interests in his decisions, so I'm willing to bet that the court will lean towards Citizens United and to hell with McCain-Feingold.

But this mess goes WAY back to 1886 to 'Southern Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad in which corporations were granted status as 'natural persons'. More on both of these cases:

http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/892

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/supct/cert/08-205

And for all the Repubs and Blue Dogs that didn't gripe about Bush and his spending spree....

http://www.waynebesen.com/2009/08/blue-dogs.html

ya but the laws will never be changed, no law maker will change a law that will affect him personally. the Fox's are guarding the hen house

CUDA wrote:ya but the laws will never be changed, no law maker will change a law that will affect him personally. the Fox's are guarding the hen house

That is why they need to see a revolt at the ballot box and feel it was going to repeat itself by ever increasing waves of magnitude each election cycle.
They would never pass laws that make them to be more 'servant' than 'elite ruler'...unless the alternative to passing those changes was being voted out of office completely. Faced with that kind of sweeping backlash at the polls you would see some of them go for broke and jump on the bandwagon, they and the fresh meat voted in by way of the revolt would pass the changes... once it begins it would be too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

They can't prevent it from happening to them but it is hard to start the process. That's the only thing they have going for them is it's hard to overcome the inertia that the giant party system has propelling it.
If enough people started to "vote the bums out" and each election the movement gaining momentum, at some point the cycle would break....a candidate would break out and run on a platform of true reform and win! And on the coat tails of that success more would follow...within just a few cycles we could see a new powerful dynamic in American politics that would change everything.

It could spread with the ease of small town gossip, like a viral YouTube video, like the wind baby! Some of you are already thinking about it right now and you know how great it would feel.... watching the good old boys in congress trying to hold back the tide with a broom!
The right ideas presented at the right time against the backdrop of the breakdown of our prosperity and the revolt would be of historic proportions.

The corporate interests are REALLY entrenched in Washington. How the hell will we as lowly common people ever have any chance in hell of voting out these corrupt politicians and then somehow keep the newly elected ones from becoming just as corrupt? It just seems hopeless and futile with the present system.

tunnelcat wrote:The corporate interests are REALLY entrenched in Washington. How the hell will we as lowly common people ever have any chance in hell of voting out these corrupt politicians and then somehow keep the newly elected ones from becoming just as corrupt? It just seems hopeless and futile with the present system.

*No lobbiests, lobbying becomes a federal offense.(there are alternative voices for special interest groups and corporations)
*No donations from non voting entities.
*Weighted vote counting (list your picks in order of preference)
*Limits on campaign donations and spending.
*Federal funded campaign air time.
*Replace the income tax code(read:loophole bible) with the FairTax or some version of it.(this will neuter congress Bigtime!)

Promote that agenda and as soon as a candidate or two wins running with that as the focus of their campaign it will be the snowball rolling down Capitol Hill....

tunnelcat wrote:The corporate interests are REALLY entrenched in Washington. How the hell will we as lowly common people ever have any chance in hell of voting out these corrupt politicians and then somehow keep the newly elected ones from becoming just as corrupt? It just seems hopeless and futile with the present system.

There are so many reasons that the lowly common people can't influence the direction of their country, and in my opinion the powers that be are an amazingly small factor.

The biggest factor is the people themselves.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:...There are so many reasons that the lowly common people can't influence the direction of their country, and in my opinion the powers that be are an amazingly small factor.

The biggest factor is the people themselves.

Exactly the motive behind my rant.
Spidey, for example, surrenders at the prospect that our so called representatives won't vote to limit their power and make themselves more vulnerable to the voters...
I suggest that although it isn't easy, it is, as you point out, only a small group of people to overcome and the tools are available to us if we would only get off our lazy butts and do something about it.
But if you want to believe you have lost the ability to change their methods of operation(the very thing they pray you believe) and are now hopelessly at their mercy then you get the shitty government you deserve. Both parties have spent literally millions every election cycle to make sure you believe that nonsense. I know better and I'm no genius....

Think about it people....what do you have to lose by voting them out?!? More of the same is all you can lose!!

First of all, I haven’t surrendered to anything, altho I am getting too old and tired to fight the good fight. (was just pointing out a fact)

You are suffering from a certain degree of disconnect…that being the solution and the method to that solution.

Vote every single person in congress out…and who do you think will replace them, a bunch of people elected by those who think as you do…no, they would fill the congress with people elected by the same people who put the current lot in.

People in this country already have the government they want, people no longer want freedoms, they now want cradle to grave security, and quite frankly…true freedom scares the living hell out of most people.

You have to make that leap…and I think you know what I’m talking about, but I lose enuf sleep now, without having to worry about black helicopters. (so I’m not going to say it)

Spidey you are simplifying the scenario I laid out.
Sure if the new congressmen voted in during the first wave of the vote them out movement had no clue as to why they were picked over the incumbents then you could expect them to behave just like the people they replaced but that isn't the scenario I presented at all.

You’re missing my point.

But, I have to go to bed now.

If your point is that people today don't want something better therefore they won't pursue this idea....well obviously the basis of my hypothesis depends on them wanting something better.
If you are suggesting the secret society of 'real power brokers' won't allow us to remove their puppet leaders then I just don't buy into that level of conspiracy theory.
Or am I still missing it?

Yes, people today want “something” better, but that “something” is not the same as what you want. (no conspiracy theory here)

The demographics today make what you are proposing counter productive. Most of the people in America now belong to a group who want something from government. If the great majority of Americans went out and voted in a new congress, it would be full of people who would give the store away.

It’s all about the demographics…think about it.

Things in this country are only going to get worse, from here on…We might actually be better off locking in the few freedom loving people we have now.

So what I’m saying is…be carefull what you wish for, it could get worse.

OK, I follow you now, but I don't believe the majority of people who vote fit your catagory.
I also believe by the time this President is done trying to spend his way into his version of America there will be backlash against the notion that government can 'make it all better like your mommy did when you were a little rug rat'. We're about to go down the drain economically and he's got his hand on the flush lever!

The problem we will face is exemplified by the republican reaction to Obama's failure to get his socialist program through...they are simply offering to not do it as their alternative to his attempt. What that would translate to in my election scenario if you are right is, Obama fails, country goes backlash against democrats and republicans take over again giving us a return to the status quo with management by the right wing of the same old one party disguised as two. In other words no change at all...opportunity wasted.

What I'd like to see is people recognize Obama was wrong in his solution, people remember the republicans are going to be no better just a slightly different flavor of the same old ★■◆● sandwich...and a new demand for responsible, ethical, common sense representation be swept in on the energy of the backlash instead.

Obviously it requires some effort on our part. Largely helped if we don't sit back and say \"it won't happen because people suck...\"! It's like the ghetto peer group that says \"You won't get anywhere you're black...ain't no white man gonna ever let you get anywhere...\" so what happens? A bunch of kids give up hope and become bitter and the whole culture degrades into crap!

So don't sit there and tell me it can't work. It could work if you would work, if I will work, if everyone who gives a crap enough to whine about things would work!
So work at the one job that gives you the ability to actually change things....work on voting out the incumbents and make sure people know why you did it, make sure you implore your fellow humans to do the same thing and to understand why. If we did this it will work and we will win.

Stop playing by the dem/repub party rules and bring your own game to the field! The one-party-disguised-as-two is terrible at providing us with leaders so now we will provide the leadership by rewriting the job requirements for the representatives we are hiring to work for us!!
This is not about party choice, it's about rejecting the party power scam.