DescentBB

A 7 seven year old boy adopted by a USA couple was sent back to Russia alone. Adopted parents say the boy was violent and had behavior problems.

\"After giving my best to this child, I am sorry to say that for the safety of my family, friends and myself, I no longer wish to parent this child,\" it read. \"As he is a Russian National, I am returning him to your guardianship and would like the adoption disannulled.\"

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/average-boy-me ... d=10340195

These people should be ashamed of themselves. Not only for not taking the time to help the boy, but for hiring some strange man to pick the boy up at the airport. This has really became a whacked out world we live in.

Worst yet there may have been no crime committed.

Boyce said, \"This is a touchy deal and I'm not sure if anything illegal has been done or not. Our plan is to have the adoption agency check with the people in Moscow or whatever part of Russia they're in and check with this child and see if they see signs of abuse.\"

Boyce said he intended to move slowly and carefully in his investigation.

\"We're breaking new ground here,\" he said. \"There may be no crime at all when you really get down to it. Maybe some bad judgment in the way she turned this child back.\"

Really these people are despicable.

seems like the adoption agency should have screened the parents a little better also.

I don't see a problem with it. If the kid blew his chance at a good life, that's his problem.

the kid was only 7 he never had a chance.

the parent on the other hand broke a promise.
kids arent like a television set you cant return it if it doesnt work right.

I'm an adopted child. If I was a violent little spark I'd understand if my parents didn't want to ruin 11 more years of their life dealing with me.

Even at 7 you should be able to control yourself. I understood that. It's the kid's fault.

CUDA wrote:the kid was only 7 he never had a chance.

the parent on the other hand broke a promise.
kids arent like a television set you cant return it if it doesnt work right.

Other side of the same coin: Virtually any household in the US has relatively easy access to the resources needed to fix a broken television set, however few have the resources to fix a broken child.

I find it truly pathetic that you would lay blame on a 7 year old over the ADULTS and after only 6 months of effort to boot. hell it takes you longer than 6 months to truly understand someone.

not to mention they didnt even have the courage to accompany the boy to Russia. they put him on a flight with a note in his backpack saying \"This Merchandise Defective\"

Adversity does't build Character, it reveals it.

These ADULTS showed their true character and their value of a life that they originally chose to try and influence. thats the problem with many people today,
they get this I'm such a good person attitude and jump in on a prodject and the minute it gets tough they bail.

“A Jewish man was travelling on a trip from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by bandits. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him up, and left him half dead beside the road. By chance a priest came along. But when he saw the man lying there, he crossed to the other side of the road and passed him by. A Levite walked over and looked at him lying there, but he also passed by on the other side. Then a despised Samaritan came along, and when he saw the man, he felt compassion for him. Going over to him, the Samaritan soothed his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. Then he put the man on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next day he handed the innkeeper two silver coins, telling him, ‘Take care of this man. If his bill runs higher than this, I’ll pay you the next time I’m here.’

I ask you did the Samaratin ask how much it would cost to take care of the man?? NO

he said take care of him NO MATTER THE COST and I will pay it.

the Parents were at fault, they took this child in and bailed when things got tough. Pathetic to abandon a child

CUDA wrote:I find it truly pathetic that you would lay blame on a 7 year old over the ADULTS and after only 6 months of effort to boot. hell it takes you longer than 6 months to truly understand someone.

Unless you're an adopted child as well, I'm gunna further ignore your post. If you aren't, you have no clue whatsoever how it is to feel the responsibility to be good. I was adopted around 6-7 and I knew what was going on. You have to try. The adult in the story said she/he was afraid for her family and friends' safety. If a child wants to act out like that let them reap their own crops. And as the son of a crooked minister I know how easy it is for someone to come across as nice and peaceful when they want to and malicious and violent when said people aren't looking. And you're wrong about figuring someone out in a period of longer than 6 months. I normally do it in about 10 minutes.

I really respect you and what you normally have to say Cuda, but I really disagree with you on this one.

It IS pathetic to abandon a child...if you made it. They stepped out of their way to adopt a kid, tried to give him happiness and a home, and he obviously rejected it. His decision. His actions. That alone sickens me, BEING an adopted child, and knowing the grace I recieved, makes me want to transport back into my 7 year old body so I could beat him up on the playground.

*SilverFJ wrote:

CUDA wrote:I find it truly pathetic that you would lay blame on a 7 year old over the ADULTS and after only 6 months of effort to boot. hell it takes you longer than 6 months to truly understand someone.

Unless you're an adopted child as well, I'm gunna further ignore your post. If you aren't, you have no clue whatsoever how it is to feel the responsibility to be good. I was adopted around 6-7 and I knew what was going on. You have to try. The adult in the story said she/he was afraid for her family and friends' safety. If a child wants to act out like that let them reap their own crops. And as the son of a crooked minister I know how easy it is for someone to come across as nice and peaceful when they want to and malicious and violent when said people aren't looking. And you're wrong about figuring someone out in a period of longer than 6 months. I normally do it in about 10 minutes.

I really respect you and what you normally have to say Cuda, but I really disagree with you on this one.

well as a father of 8 biological children and a troubled adult adopted family, (10 kids in all) I am MORE than qualified to discuss this topic

Well, what do you think about personal responsibility on the part of the child, then?

(I edited my post whilst you were replying)

The way they sent him back seems really wrong but it may be they calculated it was the only way to bypass the bureaucracy that would have stood in the way of putting the boy back in the hands of those that sent him.

I know if I believed I may wake to find myself and the rest of my family trapped in a burning house that the boy promised to set on fire I wouldn't sleep another night until he was out of my house and unable to do us harm. I don't know how I'd deal with the situation, I'd like to think I would find a better way but I'm not willing to cast a stone at these people's glass house just yet.

*SilverFJ wrote:Well, what do you think about personal responsibility on the part of the child, then?

(I edited my post whilst you were replying)

Personal responsibility is taught, if the child has never been taught to take personal responsibility how can it be expected? To much is really unknown about what the child had been through in the Russian orphanage to try and justify that he should of taken personal responsibility for his actions here in the US. Where as the person who have adopted the child should have taken personal responsibility and gotten the child some help after all she adopted and promised to raise the child as if it were her own. There is the rub isn't. The child wasn't her own and she threw the child aside as if he was a piece of trash.

Despicable plain and simple.

Don't tell me you didn't know the difference between wrong and right when you were 7.

Lets assume for a minute that the child was not adopted…what would the equivalent action be…leaving the child in the hands of the state? (giving it up for adoption)

I don’t think the child being adopted is relevant here, it just gave the parents a quick way out.

A parent is a parent, doesn’t matter if the child is adopted or not.

I had parents at age seven and they taught me right from wrong and about personal responsibility at age 13 I was in foster homes that abused me was it right for them to treat me that way no. My wife was adopted good thing her adopted parents didn't cast her away. So I am speaking from experience. You want to talk all about personal responsibility but not for the adopting parent having to take personal responsibility.

One more thing do you think all children at age 7 should know right from wrong?

She told the AP that the child began hitting, kicking and spitting and making threats in January.

\"He drew a picture of our house burning down and he'll tell anybody that he's going to burn our house down with us in it,\" Hansen said. \"It got to be where you feared for your safety. It was terrible.\"

It's a tough story. Ideally the parents should of gotten help for the child. But if I honestly thought that a newly adopted child was going to try and set my house on fire, well, I guess I'm just not ready to judge those involved without having met any of them.

Perhaps the parents were too easily spooked, or perhaps the kid really does have threatening mental illness. Either way, I'm not ready to cast my e-judgment on this one.

You know one of my cousins adopted a child from a foreign country and has run into an endless stream of nearly insurmountable difficulty. First the child didn't understand English at all, second of all the child is outright psychotic. Sure you think all children are a little psychotic, but that is only because you have never seen a real psychotic child. They won't listen or obey willingly ever, they are violent, they are verbally abusive, they are threatening and they will carry out those threats if given the opportunity. You can't leave them alone, you can't turn your back to them, you can't ever let your guard down. These kids do not know right from wrong on any level, it isn't necessarily their fault but that is the reality of the situation and it makes dealing with them unbelievably difficult.

In this case the parents were irresponsible but not for sending the kid back. They were irresponsible for taking a psychotic child that they couldn't handle in the first place. You can't just undo the kind of social damage that these kids have received, and many of them never really recover.

In America today, the pressure from society is so great that parents don't have the time to properly care for normal healthy children let alone some kid that is outright psychotic.

Krom wrote:You know one of my cousins adopted a child from a foreign country and has run into an endless stream of nearly insurmountable difficulty. First the child didn't understand English at all, second of all the child is outright psychotic. Sure you think all children are a little psychotic, but that is only because you have never seen a real psychotic child. They won't listen or obey willingly ever, they are violent, they are verbally abusive, they are threatening and they will carry out those threats if given the opportunity. You can't leave them alone, you can't turn your back to them, you can't ever let your guard down. These kids do not know right from wrong on any level, it isn't necessarily their fault but that is the reality of the situation and it makes dealing with them unbelievably difficult.

In this case the parents were irresponsible but not for sending the kid back. They were irresponsible for taking a psychotic child that they couldn't handle in the first place. You can't just undo the kind of social damage that these kids have received, and many of them never really recover.

In America today, the pressure from society is so great that parents don't have the time to properly care for normal healthy children let alone some kid that is outright psychotic.

I can agree with this but to say a 7 year knows right and wrong when they haven't been taught right from wrong is a gross misstatement. If this were true even these children would know right from wrong

http://www.feralchildren.com/en/children.php

Which clearly they could never know right from wrong let alone take personal responsibility for their actions.

I think it's rather bizarre to assert that a 7-year-old should automatically have a fully-developed sense of right and wrong, considering that, from both a legal and psychological standpoint, they most certainly do not.

Top Gun wrote:I think it's rather bizarre to assert that a 7-year-old should automatically have a fully-developed sense of right and wrong, considering that, from both a legal and psychological standpoint, they most certainly do not.

agreed having raised enough of them they do not have and are not capable of a defined sense of right and wrong

CUDA wrote:

Top Gun wrote:I think it's rather bizarre to assert that a 7-year-old should automatically have a fully-developed sense of right and wrong, considering that, from both a legal and psychological standpoint, they most certainly do not.

agreed having raised enough of them they do not have and are not capable of a defined sense of right and wrong

Well I sure as hell did. And my meth-dealing parents who abused me so horribly the state had to remove me never taught it to me. Sure, later on I got into the stuff myself for a stint, even sold it, but that's later (and I've corrected that horseshit, btw). When I was 7 I understood I went from hell to heaven and the people who took me should be treated as such.

*SilverFJ wrote:Well I sure as hell did. And my meth-dealing parents who abused me so horribly the state had to remove me never taught it to me. Sure, later on I got into the stuff myself for a stint, even sold it, but that's later (and I've corrected that *****, btw). When I was 7 I understood I went from hell to heaven and the people who took me should be treated as such.

That was definitely a good thing for you, but you can't look at your own mindset and generalize it to every single 7-year-old under the sun. (Don't forget that our own memories of ourselves at a young age aren't always gospel truth, too.) And from a developmental standpoint, young children, and even adolescents, simply aren't at the level of a full adult yet. The brain's structure regarding decision-making and full understanding of an action's consequences is still a work-in-progress until somewhere around the age of 20 or so. It's for this exact reason why crimes by juvenile offenders are generally handled differently than those by legal adults; the latter are considered in full control of their own decision-making, while the former are still in the process of working that all out.

*SilverFJ wrote:

CUDA wrote:

Top Gun wrote:I think it's rather bizarre to assert that a 7-year-old should automatically have a fully-developed sense of right and wrong, considering that, from both a legal and psychological standpoint, they most certainly do not.

agreed having raised enough of them they do not have and are not capable of a defined sense of right and wrong

Well I sure as hell did. And my meth-dealing parents who abused me so horribly the state had to remove me never taught it to me. Sure, later on I got into the stuff myself for a stint, even sold it, but that's later (and I've corrected that *****, btw). When I was 7 I understood I went from hell to heaven and the people who took me should be treated as such.

I'm not criticizing you Silver, and this is by no way anything personal. but you cannot equate the mental abilities or stability of a 7 year old to a full developed adult. the adults were the ones with the choice in this matter, the child was not.

I’m going to have to slightly disagree with some of you here, I think that a child of 7 years can understand the difference between right and wrong, if the child is taught properly. (it’s not a difficult concept) The problem lies in the critical decision making skills…where a child may know the difference between right and wrong, and still make poor decisions.

And the really sad thing is…a lot of adults lack these same decision making skills, even tho they fully understand the difference between right and wrong. And I’m sure in many cases the difference between right and wrong has no bearing on a decision at all.

You may consider that splitting hairs, but Silver’s story demonstrates this point, he claims to have understood the concept, but still chose bad things. I also knew the difference between right and wrong very young, and made plenty of bad choices…

So, I don’t think that is the root of the problem.

The average 7 year old most definitely does have some understanding of right and wrong. Even your average 3 year old will have a basic grasp of the concepts. However the children like the one discussed in this article are anything but normal or average. It isn't their fault but that is the harsh reality and stories about kids like that usually do not end well.

I'll at least meet in the middle here and say they should've chosen a child more carefully.

This is why I think abortion should be legal up to the age of 10; you don't know what you have until it's too late.

*SilverFJ wrote:I'll at least meet in the middle here and say they should've chosen a child more carefully.

I really think this was more my point than anything, they chose this child.

He was going to set fire to the house. The kid is better off dead. It's awesome they're sending him away.

DP

abortion
Definition
The spontaneous or artificially induced expulsion of an embryo or fetus. As used in legal context, the term usually refers to induced abortion.

Taking of life after the birth is murder Issac

Are you fishing or trolling?

Isaac wrote:He was going to set fire to the house. The kid is better off dead. It's awesome they're sending him away.

Saying your going to do something and actually being caught in the act of doing it are two ENTIRLEY different things, so lets just kill the kids since he thought about it, NICE

Coooo Duuuh wrote:

Isaac wrote:He was going to set fire to the house. The kid is better off dead. It's awesome they're sending him away.

Saying your going to do something and actually being caught in the act of doing it are two ENTIRLEY different things, so lets just kill the kids since he thought about it, NICE

You're/your? Yes, it is entirely different, since one gives you foresight. But, forget logic and the use of commas and periods. Let's also write in CAPs so our POINT sounds STRONGER, than it REALLY IS.

edit:
I know the definition of abortion. But yes, I'm pro murder/killing/abortion, as long as it's legal the legal kind.
Conservatives are weird about killing things; I'm never sure when they're on my side. Also, the post office should have suicide booths.

the Forum Spelling NAZI and murder advocate wrote:

Coooo Duuuh wrote:

Isaac wrote:He was going to set fire to the house. The kid is better off dead. It's awesome they're sending him away.

Saying your going to do something and actually being caught in the act of doing it are two ENTIRLEY different things, so lets just kill the kids since he thought about it, NICE

You're/your? Yes, it is entirely different, since one gives you foresight. But, forget logic and the use of commas and periods. Let's also write in CAPs so our POINT sounds STRONGER, than it REALLY IS.

edit:
I know the definition of abortion. But yes, I'm pro murder/killing/abortion, as long as it's legal the legal kind.
Conservatives are weird about killing things; I'm never sure when they're on my side. Also, the post office should have suicide booths.

the idiocy of your post is beyond
oh and FYI

I'm pro murder/killing/abortion, as long as it's legal the legal kind.

Wiki wrote:Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent

a bit of advise if you're going to try and make someone look foolish, you might not want to make yourself look stupid in the process

Kind of jumping in at the end here but...

I don't see how you can say that a child doesn't understand right and wrong? Sure, they don't know every single instance of what right and wrong is, but they understand it as a principle.

Ever seen a little toddler take a cookie, and hide it?

Ever seen your little niece who is less than two get a defiant look in her eye, and do exactly what you just told her not to?

Now having said that, I do believe that people can/are brainwashed into forgetting what is right/wrong. Whether that be negligent parents or whatever. And if you doubt me, think about the last time you did something wrong. It's because for a moment of time, however brief, you deemed your action acceptable. No offense Isaac, but kind of like your pro abortion stance.

Thenior wrote:
I don't see how you can say that a child doesn't understand right and wrong? Sure, they don't know every single instance of what right and wrong is, but they understand it as a principle.

Ever seen a little toddler take a cookie, and hide it?

Ever seen your little niece who is less than two get a defiant look in her eye, and do exactly what you just told her not to?

Well put Thenior. I've seen my 20 month grand-daughter do the same thing.

CUDA wrote:

the Forum Spelling NAZI and murder advocate wrote:

Coooo Duuuh wrote:

Isaac wrote:He was going to set fire to the house. The kid is better off dead. It's awesome they're sending him away.

Saying your going to do something and actually being caught in the act of doing it are two ENTIRLEY different things, so lets just kill the kids since he thought about it, NICE

You're/your? Yes, it is entirely different, since one gives you foresight. But, forget logic and the use of commas and periods. Let's also write in CAPs so our POINT sounds STRONGER, than it REALLY IS.

edit:
I know the definition of abortion. But yes, I'm pro murder/killing/abortion, as long as it's legal the legal kind.
Conservatives are weird about killing things; I'm never sure when they're on my side. Also, the post office should have suicide booths.

the idiocy of your post is beyond
oh and FYI

I'm pro murder/killing/abortion, as long as it's legal the legal kind.

Wiki wrote:Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent

a bit of advise if you're going to try and make someone look foolish, you might not want to make yourself look stupid in the process

Correct! Your reply is a good example of 'epic logic failure', CUDA. A+
If I'm for something that's currently illegal, like legally being able to kill people under a specific circumstance, I can say I'm pro murder under those circumstances. Right now, that feeling in your head, CUDA, is called confusion, because you don't understand what you just read. *pat on back for CUDA* Shaaa-pwnd.

Thenior wrote:No offense Isaac, but kind of like your pro abortion stance.

None taken, since I'm always right.

Isaac wrote:If I'm for something that's currently illegal, like legally being able to kill people under a specific circumstance,

is this even English???