DescentBB

Posted: **Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:32 am**

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
$250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.

So it's already Illegal to be Illegal so why all the fuss about Arizona's immigration bill? Due to the failure and blind eye approach to immigration by the federal government I see no reason a state can not act in manner to protect their citizens. Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America already. The Mexican drug cartels has already spilled across the border with their violence with kidnappings and killings yet the government sits on their collected butts and does nothing.

Posted: **Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:49 am**

I think before this law the way it worked was the Fed took over an illegals fate since it was federal law broken to enter the country.
There were instances of state police catching a van load of illegals, calling the immigration service to pick them up...waiting on the roadside for hours for INS to come take the prisoners....finally getting a call that the INS wasn't interested in coming to take the prisoners...state police being told that they had no authority to do anything other than catch and hold...so they released the prisoners right there on the road.

Now, in Arizona anyway, if you catch an illegal you can prosecute them under state law.

The law also allows police to profile for possible illegals. Not racial profiling by definition but obviously white people won't look like most illegals that are encountered.
I love the attempt at gotcha journalism when they asked the Governor 'What does an illegal alien look like? she said \"I don't know\".
What I would have said was: Ask the cops who deal with them everyday, they would have a better idea of what they look like than I would. My guess is they can be recognized the same way the cops can usually recognize gang bangers on the street.

Posted: **Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:28 pm**

Posted: **Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:16 pm**

Just giving a little back to the one that already thinks he is the grammar teacher in the first place. Thanks for pointing those out for me.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:38 pm**

So Bee, do you have anything to say regarding the actual topic? Or did you run out ideas, but still felt like trolling?

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:32 pm**

It's attacking the symptom and ignoring the problem.

Imagration has been such a long standing problem in that state, that many of the \"illegals\" cannot be recognized anymore. They came when they where young kids, and now are in their late twenties, early thirties, and have no accent that can be recognized.

What would you do with these people?

They have no connection to Mexico, and they sure had no say in the predicament that they now find themselves in. A six year old isn't going to stand his ground against his parents on where they move.

These are Americans.

You solve the problem by closing the boarder, you solve this problem by preventing this problem from happening, or by making it so that so many people don't want to come here illegally.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:33 pm**

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:03 pm**

Gooberman wrote:These are Americans.

You solve the problem by closing the boarder, you solve this problem by preventing this problem from happening, or by making it so that so many people don't want to come here illegally.

Not all of them are Americans even if they have been here 20 years they are still illegal. Now their children are Americans because they were born here. For them to be Americans they would have had to take the test to become a naturalization citizen.

As for closing the border a lot of people are in favor of that by building a fence along the whole border. That does two things. One it keeps people out. Two it keeps people in. Yes you can build a fence or a wall along the whole border it's been done before it was called the Iron Curtain. The term was first used to refer to the actual metal barrier that cut the continent in two. Which I think would be a very bad Idea. If you have ever seen the Iron Curtain you would know that it's a very bad thing. The Federal government is the cause of this problem by not enforcing our laws in the first place.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:14 pm**

Gooberman wrote:It's attacking the symptom and ignoring the problem.

Imagration has been such a long standing problem in that state, that many of the "illegals" cannot be recognized anymore. They came when they where young kids, and now are in their late twenties, early thirties, and have no accent that can be recognized.

What would you do with these people?

They have no connection to Mexico, and they sure had no say in the predicament that they now find themselves in. A six year old isn't going to stand his ground against his parents on where they move.

These are Americans.

You solve the problem by closing the boarder, you solve this problem by preventing this problem from happening, or by making it so that so many people don't want to come here illegally.

I think you are correct but this law can actually be the best thing we've done to acomplish what you propose...
Just because they could go after long time illegal residents doesn't mean they have to or will. It does, however, give the local authority the ability to enforce the law that the Fed didn't. So they can now take a bus load of fresh illegals and send them to jail instead of an air conditioned conference room where they are served orange juice and cookies. They will be told they face serious jail time instead of a ride to the nearest shelter and welfare enrollment center etc. etc.
Word will get around pretty quick that Arizona is no longer a good destination for illegals. California, New Mexico and Texas will see an increase in problems caused by illegals and most likely follow suit.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:59 pm**

Forget jail. Mandatory labor camps. 3 squares and a cot with lots of hard work.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:51 pm**

I think there is a deeper meaning in what Arizona is doing. By that I mean perhaps the states right issue is
being implemented. When the Feds can't/won't handle the problem, look for more and more States to do things themselves.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:15 pm**

woodchip wrote:I think there is a deeper meaning in what Arizona is doing. By that I mean perhaps the states right issue is
being implemented. When the Feds can't/won't handle the problem, look for more and more States to do things themselves.

Yea, except after watching the Fed finally move on healthcare 'reform' I'm reminded of the old saying "Let a sleeping dog lay"

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:16 pm**

It's hard for me to want to punish somebody for wanting a better life for themselves. I'm against illegal immigration but not the illegals themselves. If I was born a mexican and had an opportunity to better myself just by relocating I'd do it everyday till I succeeded. This is the fault of our government plain and simple. They should bear the burden of guilt and punishment for not protecting the borders adequately. The Word is very clear on how we should treat the illegals themselves, exactly how we would treat ourselves.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:42 pm**

Want to end illegal immigration…end welfare (that great social program) and watch the jobs that are “beneath” people suddenly become in demand.

What a joke when people say “we need these people for the economy” when we have millions of people sitting around on their azzes.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 pm**

Spidey wrote:Want to end illegal immigration…end welfare (that great social program) and watch the jobs that are “beneath” people suddenly become in demand.

What a joke when people say “we need these people for the economy” when we have millions of people sitting around on their azzes.

It's true, ask me why I don't have a job currently. I dare you!

The reason I do NOT have a job currently, even though I live in Central USA, is I was replaced by a mexican. Can you dig that!?

Here we are in Illinois with a jobless rate of 11.7 percent. http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usu ... yment+rate
Do you seriously think they include unemployed illegals in that satistic?

I don't think so.

Illegals cost this state several BILLION a year.
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illin ... iens-.html

After California, New York, and Texas, Illinois has more illegals than any of the other 46 states. Strange that they run FROM the border after they infiltrate.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:09 pm**

Oh I agree with that. I've been framing houses and in construction in general since I was 15. t
They got my job too. Notice I didn't say took. I blamed the builders almost immediately for selling us down the road to save a few hundred bucks. Everybody can complain about them all they want to, but if there was no opportunity they would have left.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:14 pm**

flip wrote:Oh I agree with that. I've been framing houses and in construction in general since I was 15. t
They got my job too. Notice I didn't say took. I blamed the builders almost immediately for selling us down the road to save a few hundred bucks. Everybody can complain about them all they want to, but if there was no opportunity they would have left.

With that being said, I think I will infiltrate Canada, and live off the State.

Posted: **Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:01 pm**

AlphaDoG wrote:With that being said, I think I will infiltrate Canada, and live off the State.

yeah, start workin' on your Canadian accent, eh?

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:46 am**

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Forget jail. Mandatory labor camps. 3 squares and a cot with lots of hard work.

Ahh, you speak of my hero

http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModu ... heriff_bio

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:10 pm**

Spidey wrote:Want to end illegal immigration…end welfare (that great social program) and watch the jobs that are “beneath” people suddenly become in demand.

What a joke when people say “we need these people for the economy” when we have millions of people sitting around on their azzes.

We also have millions of people who can't be legally employed for less than $7.something per hour, and (because they are in the country legally) would gladly turn the matter over to local authorities. Meanwhile, there are illegals who will take less than that and have no outlet to complain.

We need an immigration system that works. The federal system doesn't. The Arizona system doesn't. Several of our laws (like minimum wage) and many of our programs (like welfare and the way we run our medical system) make the problem worse by encouraging illegal immigration and encouraging exploitation of illegals.

We need a system that lets people come here to find opportunity, treats them justly, and keeps employers from gaming the system by exploiting cheap labor while dodging payroll taxes and such. We need a system that works with the reality of the millions of people who are already here, that encourages and rewards hard work and discourages slacking and leeching, and that doesn't lead to massive human rights abuses by employers, government, con artists, etc.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:28 pm**

Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:41 pm**

Isaac wrote:Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.

Why would they do that???? Mexico wants people to cross the border, because they send the money they earn back to relatives in Mexico and stimulate their economy. not to mention that it is also a relief to their welfare system.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:48 pm**

Lothar…agreed, I have often spoke about the minimum wage and its affect on un-employment and this issue.

It’s all about those un-intended consequences “great social programs” cause.

Or intended, if you go that way.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:59 pm**

CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.
Why would they do that???? Mexico wants people to cross the border, because they send the money they earn back to relatives in Mexico and stimulate their economy. not to mention that it is also a relief to their welfare system.

Your writing is getting better. Keep it up!

...sorry. This will add clarity.

Posted: **Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:48 pm**

Isaac wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.
Why would they do that???? Mexico wants people to cross the border, because they send the money they earn back to relatives in Mexico and stimulate their economy. not to mention that it is also a relief to their welfare system.
Your writing is getting better. Keep it up!
...sorry. This will add clarity.

you still stroking your penis eh Issac?

Posted: **Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:33 pm**

Cuda, make sure you spelled penis right.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:21 am**

CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.
Why would they do that???? Mexico wants people to cross the border, because they send the money they earn back to relatives in Mexico and stimulate their economy. not to mention that it is also a relief to their welfare system.
Your writing is getting better. Keep it up!
...sorry. This will add clarity.
you still stroking your penis eh Issac?

Yes, everyday and all the time. Especially when I see you.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:19 am**

Isaac wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.
Why would they do that???? Mexico wants people to cross the border, because they send the money they earn back to relatives in Mexico and stimulate their economy. not to mention that it is also a relief to their welfare system.
Your writing is getting better. Keep it up!
...sorry. This will add clarity.
you still stroking your penis eh Issac?
Yes, everyday and all the time. Especially when I see you.

I'm flatered. but I'm not into the whole NAMBLA thing. you should probably find another preschooler your own age.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:47 am**

CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Isaac wrote:Why not just force Mexico into building a sky scraping wall on their side, solving all of Mexico's problems in one fell swoop? We need a Mexican Stalin.
Why would they do that???? Mexico wants people to cross the border, because they send the money they earn back to relatives in Mexico and stimulate their economy. not to mention that it is also a relief to their welfare system.
Your writing is getting better. Keep it up!
...sorry. This will add clarity.
you still stroking your penis eh Issac?
Yes, everyday and all the time. Especially when I see you.
I'm flatered. but I'm not into the whole NAMBLA thing. you should probably find another preschooler your own age.

Our quotes look like a tunnel; a tunnel of love.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:16 am**

Wow...from illegal immigrants to illegal love

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:56 am**

flip wrote:It's hard for me to want to punish somebody for wanting a better life for themselves. I'm against illegal immigration but not the illegals themselves. If I was born a mexican and had an opportunity to better myself just by relocating I'd do it everyday till I succeeded. This is the fault of our government plain and simple. They should bear the burden of guilt and punishment for not protecting the borders adequately. The Word is very clear on how we should treat the illegals themselves, exactly how we would treat ourselves.

I don't think you've thought that through well.

Tell me, does the Word tell us that we, in society, should treat murderers as we want to be treated? Should a 'Christian' society simply forgive everyone all of the time, and allow itself to be wronged? I think it's your assumption that is very clear, and that is all.

First of all, if you would break the laws of a country you are willing to live in, in order to 'better yourself', then shame on you. I think you have at least two false assumptions there, one of which I just pointed out--that the law means nothing next to your happiness. The other is that you can identify with these folks, on a large scale.

It is not the fault of our government plain and simple. The fault cannot be put in only one place, and that is fairly easy to see. The fault is that of our government for not upholding the law, of the illegals for breaking our laws, however weakly enforced, and then of the people in the U.S. who think little enough of our laws to either do nothing or take advantage of the illegal influx of cheap labor.

In my judgment the people who supposedly uphold the law should be held accountable first for not doing their job. After that the immigrants who have broken our laws should be dealt with in a firm but just and humane manner... they should not be allowed to remain as-is. Finally, if there were any justice, the people who have taken advantage of the breaking of our laws in order to 'better themselves' in taking advantage of cheap labor--taking advantage of people who because of their illegality cannot do just any work, they should be charged.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:27 pm**

It's the job of the government to punish wrongdoers and the job of the individual to love his neighbor and enemy. My remark was generic and yet you took offense. It's hard to see yourself when your too busy correcting others. My belief comes directly from \"Levitical Law\" in which were commanded to treat the alien with kindness and not contempt. Air must be getting pretty thin up there my friend.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:41 pm**

Sergeant Thorne wrote:First of all, if you would break the laws of a country you are willing to live in, in order to 'better yourself', then shame on you. I think you have at least two false assumptions there, one of which I just pointed out--that the law means nothing next to your happiness. The other is that you can identify with these folks, on a large scale.

You have alot to learn about the world, and I hope you never have to learn it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:15 pm**

Oooo, nothing better than a cryptic smack down.

Posted: **Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:37 pm**

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Tell me, does the Word tell us that we, in society, should treat murderers as we want to be treated?

Well, yes, it does.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:09 am**

Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Also known as the golden rule.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:04 am**

but it also says this

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:37 am**

Hey, if you guys are content to misunderstand my statements in order to ridicule me, then have your fun uninterrupted. I'm not interested in working like a one-legged-man in an ass-kicking contest just to avoid being pinned to a position that I do not take.

Goob, what is this that I have to learn about the world? I honestly think you guys just haven't thought it through well enough--I don't think you are really able to comprehend just what it would be to willfully enter a country and live there illegally... I also suspect there's an assumption at work here that is blind to the other possible options available to someone living in harsh conditions in a bordering country.

As for the air up here, flip, the air is ok where I am, I'm sorry I pissed you off, but I think you're mistaken. I see evidence that you are having trouble reconciling Christianity with the reality of the rule of law, and justice. They do reconcile, but they don't reconcile until the point at which they do fully reconcile.

We were listening to some of the current administration's lies this morning about 'immigration'--illegal immigration, thank you, and my dad made an interesting statement. Provided we didn't have a bunch of lying criminals in office, which we do (sorry for you, Democrat/Obama supporters), we could secure the border, and then deal with the illegals by having them undergo a background-check followed by a naturalization process.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:30 am**

My only point Thorne, and I'm not pissed at all, is that YOU are not a governing authority or an agent of the government whatsoever. So, YOUR taking a stance that is not allowed to you but is only reserved unto those that God has given the sword of justice to. You are out of place.

EDIT:
Let me also add this. It would seem that the stance our Government has taken on illegals is to let them be. I don't see our government taking the same stance as we as individuals have taken. They come here, get work, and are basically given a free pass by our government. So, I ask this question. Who is rebelling against the will of our government at this present moment? Us or the illegals who were given a free pass?

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:46 am**

Heh, I have another question for you Thorne. We just read a quote from Cuda directly from the bible. It says that \"no\" authority is established exceptthat which is from God. If the word is true, then Obama himself was chosen by God to be president at this time or the word is not true. Be careful how you speak against those that God has set over us. We have a republic here, if you disagree with him then rally the people and vote in someone else. After all, the people always get what they deserve and that verse that Cuda presented is proof positive that it's Obama at the moment. I'd be careful who I spoke evil of.

DescentBB

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