DescentBB

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:59 pm**

Obama Announces He Will Be Sending SWAT Teams To Oil Rigs.

What SWAT don't that stand for Special Weapons and Tactics? Why would we send SWAT teams?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _rigs.html

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:54 pm**

I didn't click the link yet, but, MAN, do I hope that's not true. He's either really #@$*ing stupid or there's something SWAT does I didn't know about.

If they were serious they would have a microbiologist out there with that oil eating bacteria, but what do I know.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:06 pm**

Obama is sending Say What teams to oil rigs.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:18 pm**

Makes alot of sense to me really. These guys are specially trained for situations like this. (fast roping, repelling, deep sea diving etc...). It's like the other video you posted heretic. I saw only a peaceful demonstration and a police presence just in case. Seems prudent to me to have the police there when a large group has gathered. There are very real dangers and threats, but these hold no weight and actually detract from the real threats.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:40 pm**

“Deep sea diving” are you sure you’re not thinking of the Seals.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:49 pm**

Or SG1.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:55 pm**

Depends on what state their from I imagine. I was just making the point that they are not regular beat cops but have specialized training. Even if they don't have specific training for oil rigs, their specialized training would make them a whole lot more adept at improvising. I'd say even more so than the oil rig workers themselves.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:05 am**

Thing is there are people that make a living inspecting oil rigs for safety. Cops are not trained in safety inspecting of oil rigs.

Their duties include performing hostage rescues and counter-terrorism operations, serving high risk arrest and search warrants, subduing barricaded suspects, and engaging heavily-armed criminals. A SWAT team is often equipped with specialized firearms including assault rifles, submachine guns, shotguns, carbines, riot control agents, stun grenades, and high-powered rifles for snipers. They have specialized equipment including heavy body armor, entry tools, armored vehicles, advanced night vision optics, and motion detectors for covertly determining the positions of hostages or hostage takers inside of an enclosed structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWAT

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:13 am**

flip this is a good read on SWAT

http://people.howstuffworks.com/swat-team.htm

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:02 am**

So what if SWAT is trained for urban police action, send them to a floating platform in the middle of the ocean to do inspection work…”hope” they enjoy the “change” of scenery.

“Hey Vince…what’s a ‘pressure relief valve’ look like again?”

Then again, maybe they will be looking for bombs…kind of a coincidence this rig blew up, right after Obama’s speech about lifting the moratorium on off shore drilling? Eco wackos?

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:11 am**

That's a possibility that may have been overlooked. EcoNuTz destroying the ecology to achieve their ends.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:21 am**

Ah cmon guys I know what SWAT is. Try to think outside the box for a minute here. Here is a group of highly intelligent, highly motivated, highly trained individuals. They do not hand out tickets or direct traffic. It seems to me they are a huge resource that are probably sitting around with nothing to do most the time. They are SWAT after all. Does it not make sense to you that maybe since they are not being utilized to the fullest in their present jobs to send them somewhere where their training can be used? Not everything is sinister, and I think it shows a little bit of innovation on Obama's part.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:53 am**

perhaps there is more going on at that oil \"leak\" in the gulf than had made the press. Yeah, that sounds all \"Tom clanceyish\" but the world of espionage and terroism is real.

Besides, a \"leak\" doesn't DUMP thousands of gallons of oil. a line Rupture perhaps or Break, but not leak.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:00 am**

flip wrote:Ah cmon guys I know what SWAT is.

I see what you're saying, that you might find good leadership and team work with SWAT.

We need help from machines, chemicals, and/or bacteria; those are what we need and the people that manufacture them. Since we have those people, why are we calling SWAT?

edit:
I clicked on the link. It sounds like they're sending SWAT to check for tampering.... Again, wtf SWAT!?!?

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:03 am**

Duper wrote:Besides, a "leak" doesn't DUMP thousands of gallons of oil. a line Rupture perhaps or Break, but not leak.

It does if it's essentially an uncapped well, as in this case. This isn't a slow drip from your bathtub faucet as much as it is leaving the faucet on full-blast.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:07 am**

Yeah I considered that this leak may have been intentional, but as of yet, nothing has been said about it except maybe one thing I heard Obama say. He said that it was very unusual for an oil rig to develop a leak like this did and then him sending in SWAT. You guys may be on to something.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:09 am**

Seems to me to be a case of politico-speak.

I've heard the term misused like this before. \"We're sending in a SWAT-team...\" = \"We're sending in our specialists...\"

Annoying.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:37 pm**

ahh, the corporate mind w1nz again.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:08 pm**

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:24 pm**

Regardless who they consider appropriate to engage/fix the \"mess\" ... There really is just one question I have for the Obama administration...

WHAT TOOK YOU SO FREAKING LONG TO DO SOMETHING???

I mean, seriously, is there any of us who was surprised that the BP PLC would not be able to handle the problem? Even if they could, shouldn't action have been taken to ready \"just in case\"? Obviously, such action wasn't done.

Maybe I'm the only one wondering why this feels like it's being handled \"too little, too late\" very much like Katrina was handled.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:13 pm**

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:25 pm**

From what I've read, if the leak really was as (comparatively) minor as it first appeared, BP probably would have been able to handle it themselves without any problem. Hell, for the first few days after the explosion, there wasn't even any evidence of a full-fledged leak, just a surface sheen that could be attributed to residual oil that wasn't consumed in the fire. It was only after the leak was initially confirmed, and then discovered to be five times as severe as initially thought, that we had the makings of a full-fledged ecological disaster on our hands. Looking at the timeline, I'm not sure that anyone could have reacted more quickly than they did.

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:16 pm**

5000 barrels (= 210,000gal) a day for who-knows-how-long, baby. Prepare for some nastyness..

Posted: **Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:49 pm**

Well what ever is going on with the SWAT teams. There has been defense planning done for oil rigs back in 2007.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAN9857.htm

Posted: **Sat May 01, 2010 6:14 am**

AlphaDoG wrote:That's a possibility that may have been overlooked. EcoNuTz destroying the ecology to achieve their ends.

ELF's ?

Posted: **Sat May 01, 2010 10:56 am**

um. the President has no authority over swat teams. They are ran by cities and under municipal jurisdiction. I as assume it was a metaphor, I'll just say that it was some really sloppy verbiage.

When you are in an official position, I learned a LONG time ago that to talk from that position in a formal setting or situation as though you're talking over the backyard fence it really crass. our last 3 presidents have been really bad with this; but I think it permitted to \"make the public feel comfortable.\" I have a couch for that,

Posted: **Sat May 01, 2010 11:38 am**

Most military police units have a SWAT team which the president has authority over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_ ... pecialties

Then there is the US Army SRT which is the Army's version of SWAT.

EST members undergo special tactics training (Special Reaction Team Course, Phase 1 and 2) at the Advanced Law Enforcement Training Division (ALETD) located at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. SRT Phase I is a SWAT entry-team course and Phase II covers sniper emplacement, marksmanship, and tactics. ALETD is run by the U.S. Army and provides the majority of specialty training for U.S. Army and Marine Corps Military Policemen as well as Air Force Security Forces and some civilian police departments.

Maybe he said SWAT so the people could understand what was being said.

Posted: **Mon May 03, 2010 10:09 am**

The SWAT terminology is just lazyspeak to try to make what they're saying sound more impressive.

A recap on Rapier's view on \"The Drilling Debate\"

Both sides generally agree that our dependence on petroleum is a problem. Among the arguments from both sides is that this dependence puts our national security at risk and that it endangers the environment. I think both sides would agree that a long-term solution to the problem could be a combination of conservation, along with alternative options such as higher efficiency vehicles, electric transport, and mass transit. Where large numbers will start to disagree is whether this is achievable in the short-term, or whether it is going to take a few more years and a few more technological developments.

I fall into the latter category, for a variety of reasons. I am pretty familiar with a lot of the alternatives, and they are simply not competitive even at gasoline prices of >$4/gallon. To illustrate that point, consider Europe, where gasoline prices in many locations are now approaching $10/gallon. Even at that price, fossil fuels remain the dominant choice for transportation. It is going to take more than price – or at a minimum much higher prices than Americans probably anticipate – to drive us away from a very high level of dependence upon fossil fuels.

Naturally, read the whole thing.

more -
http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/201 ... -disaster/

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2010 11:31 am**

Here's a good post from The Oil Drum (natch) on some issues related to the recent oil rig spill.

ps - many links therein to interesting info; check 'em out.

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2010 6:02 pm**

Bet51987 wrote:
TechPro wrote:Maybe I'm the only one wondering why this feels like it's being handled "too little, too late" very much like Katrina was handled.
Techpro, with all due respect, the Coast Guard, Scientists and other experts from NOAA, Ships and cleanup crews from British Petroleum, experts on capping wells, and a host of other workers have been on the scene from week one. All the resources are there so blaming Obama for not sending in a swat team and comparing this to Katrina is a very, very, big stretch.

Bee

But comparing how inefficient and seemingly slow to move the "exppert crews" are when something like a deep sea oil pumping rig suddenly breaks like a New Orleans levee....
Well it is a good comparison from that stand point because the Governor and the Mayor and the State Police and city Police and Fire fighters and Red Cross and Salvation Army and Rescue Squads and Sherrif Departments and Highway Patrol and Emergency Medical Teams, etc. etc. were "on the scene from week one" during Katrina just as your oil rig experts have been on scene at the leaking oil rig....

The comparison isn't that Obama blew it too, it's that the political blame game is the same now as it was then....well...as close to the same as it can be without the passionate and exuberant assistance of mainstream media outlets and Hollywood celebrities anyway.

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2010 8:24 pm**

Posted: **Wed May 05, 2010 9:39 pm**

Bet51987 wrote:... This event that had no warning is much different than Katrina where President Bush failed to heed repeated warnings from experts....

Bee

Right...because those warnings were issued to Bush about levees built before he was president and they would have been issued to him so he could put on his special Presidential Levee Super Suit and fly down there and scoop up water and send it to thirsty children in ethiopia....

The local "experts", even with the benefit of advance warning that Katrina was going to hit, failed to use the resources available to them and after it hit those same "experts" failed to make use of federal assistance for days after...but of course in your mind it is all Bush's fault for not putting on that SuperSuit and flying down there.

The truth is the only thing Katrina related Bush did wrong, besides not being good at bull★■◆●ing in front of the camera, was one of the guys he appointed was a tool who didn't work as hard as he could have....you know, like Obama's appointees have been doing...you really don't want to go down that road comparing their respective appointees!

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2010 5:06 am**

Actually it's worst than Katrina. Bush didn't take money from the levees or the hurricane where as Obama took money from BP.

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash

Bee wrote:When the BP rig failed, without warning,

Hardly, there were all kinds of warnings about BP and their safety record.

http://www.truthout.org/whistlelower-bp ... rophe59027

The problem is the government on both sides of the isle are in the pockets of big oil receiving money to allow companies like BP to operate in hazardous manners.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2010 7:51 am**

Heh! It took 8 days from when the rig sank to buy a fire boom that had been suggested in a plan that was established in 1994. This shortly after the Exxon Valdez incident in Prince William Sound Alaska.

Well, Why didn't we have these on hand during the Clinton Administration? I guess it's all Bush's fault! G.W. Bush flew backwards against the rotation of the planet and went back in time to prevent these booms from being purchased, that's why!

It's a sad state of affairs when 3 different administrations have come and gone and that the sensible has become the insensible.

How can ANYONE come to the defense of an out of control, bloated and over sized Federal Government. This government is so big, that no one person has a CLUE as to what any other one person is up to. Even worse, no one segment of one small bureaucracy has a clue as to what another sector of the same bureaucracy is up to.

Until the size of our government is reduced, and some USELESS bureaucracies eliminated, this kind of ineptitude is ONLY going to increase in frequency and scope.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2010 10:40 am**

Heretic wrote:Actually it's worst than Katrina. Bush didn't take money from the levees or the hurricane where as Obama took money from BP.

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash

Hey; we're all human. Everybody makes mistakes.

Bee wrote:When the BP rig failed, without warning,
Hardly, there were all kinds of warnings about BP and their safety record.

http://www.truthout.org/whistlelower-bp ... rophe59027

The problem is the government on both sides of the isle are in the pockets of big oil receiving money to allow companies like BP to operate in hazardous manners.

Allegations by a terminated contractor may, or may not, be valid. At this point, the causes of the explosion and sinking of the Deepwater Horizon platform are completely unknown.

I’m suspicious of the allegations regarding the P&ID’s. In my experience, they’re pretty picky about those. More so, I would think, for a deepwater project. Even very small equipment builds can have multiple copies prior to the as-built drawings, and then additional drawings for any significant changes or modifications. Complex as they are, I don’t see how you’d even be able to construct a deepwater well without a fairly complete P&ID. And BP has done a number of such wells, so it’s not like this was their first swing at a pitch.

Oh, and “truth”out is a pretty lefty biased site. Either way, it’s gonna be a while before the facts are going to be easy to determine. Counting on Congress to ascertain the “facts” at this point doesn’t give me a lot of confidence.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2010 4:10 pm**

I posted from a Lefty org for the lefties.

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2010 11:32 am**

some more worth reading info and links related to the Deepwater Horizon spill

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6453#more

hint: you may find the comments are worth reading too; there are a few idiots who post, but there are also some knowledgeable folk who write there.

See also here-
http://bittooth.blogspot.com/2010/05/cr ... owout.html

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2010 1:18 pm**

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2010 2:42 pm**

Sorry, but the twin posts have no real reference to real world events. They typically spew progressive talking points trying to convince right minded thinkers to be swayed to their pov.

You can't seriously read The Washington Post and The Huffington Post and expect the truth. The headline states that thanks to the previous administration Deepwater Horizon had no EIA, then the first paragraph says, \"The Washington Post revealed Wednesday that the Interior Department's Mineral Management Service (MMS) gave BP's lease at Deepwater Horizon a \"categorical exclusion\" that exempted it from a detailed environmental impact analysis in 2009.\" Yep that HAS to be Bush/Cheney's fault, no doubt about it.

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2010 3:33 pm**

Bet51987 wrote:And thanks to.....

http://www.ufppc.org/us-a-world-news-ma ... witch.html

Bee

I think this is probably irrelevent. My understanding is that the acoustic switch would just be used to activate the blowout Preventer (BOP). BP and Transocean tried for several days with submersible robots to close off the BOP to no avail. Kennedy has no data whatsoever to support his statement that an acoustic switch could have averted this spill. There is some speculation in some of the comments in my Oil Drum links that the methane kick that caused the explosion and fire may have shifted some casing up into the BOP, thus preventing it from operating properly. At this point, any of this is PURE SPECULATION.

I'm a scientist. I think it's prudent to find the actual answers before we rush off to try to solve the problems. The answers may not be known until the well is plugged and the hardware is hauled up to the surface for analysis.

here's some more commentary -
http://www.asa3online.org/Voices/2010/0 ... -disaster/

DescentBB

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