[solved] A solution to school problems.

[Isaac]

This should be enforced at all levels of school. It already works well in higher education.

All students who acquire a D average or lower must be suspended. They must go through a long testing process to reapply for public school.

This concept will save the school system money and get rid of kids who don't care and, possibly, most troublemakers.

If it starts at an early age we can remove children who don't perform well.

Programs that were used to help struggling kids, but don't have severe learning disabilities, will have their funding cut. These kids who once required special programs for encouragement will now have this more effective incentive to try harder.

[AlphaDoG]

That may help with the school problem, however dealing with it to that extreme would only exacerbate the prison population problem.

Don't ask me for a solution to either though as I do not have the brain power to fix one of them, let alone both of them.

[Duper]

Issac. your idea SUCKS.

there is already a 50% (or higher) drop out rate. Do something that is constructive, not cutting kid's throats. There are many MANY kids that care but have such horrible homes, it's hard to do anything. My daughter had a girl kill herself because of home life. but according to you that's good because she just saved the district money.

[Spidey]

Don't ask me for a solution to either though as I do not have the brain power to fix one of them, let alone both of them.

Yes, but you were able to easily spot a possible un-intended consequence, something even “smart” people seem to miss.

So we dumb conservatives will just have to keep plodding along, only able to see the obvious…

[Gooberman]

To be academically successful, one needs discipline, desire, and then intelligence.

Those are in order of importance, and also in the order in which our system fails.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Bad idea.

If anyone has any ideas for improving the education system that don't have anything to do with directly affecting either the children or the parents for the better, the best thing you can do is write it all down, and then crumple it up and throw it away. Better administration is just not the answer, ultimately.

[CUDA]

Nah the liberals got it handled. we dont grade on an A B C scale anymore, its all done as an Exemplary, Satisfactory, and Needs Improvement. there are no more failing grades.

[woodchip]

Schools now=a=days are too college orientated as a measure for success. Perhap instead of trying to get everyone to go to college, those with no interest and low grades should be steered towards industrial arts. What ever happened to wood shop or auto repair classes? I suspect if those with low grades got a chance to learn to be a good craftsman, their interest in school may wax brighter, more so than trying to force them into a college curriculum.

[Bet51987]

.

[Isaac]

Schools now=a=days are too college orientated as a measure for success. Perhap instead of trying to get everyone to go to college, those with no interest and low grades should be steered towards industrial arts. What ever happened to wood shop or auto repair classes? I suspect if those with low grades got a chance to learn to be a good craftsman, their interest in school may wax brighter, more so than trying to force them into a college curriculum.

So, maybe as an addition we have an apprenticeship system setup. When you aren't accepted into normal public schools you're required to pay for a private institution or apprenticeship with extra features. And if you can't afford to pay, you can apply for a deferred loan.

Everybody, our school system has problems and buying more Dell Inspirons for students isn't the answer. Sorry. Oh and making the lazy parents start parenting harder isn't going to happen unless an idea like this actually happens.
[edit: Google Docs has a draw function that can export transparent png files. It's not Illustrator, but it's pretty fast to use!]

[Pandora]

Issac. your idea SUCKS.

there is already a 50% (or higher) drop out rate. Do something that is constructive, not cutting kid's throats. There are many MANY kids that care but have such horrible homes, it's hard to do anything. My daughter had a girl kill herself because of home life. but according to you that's good because she just saved the district money.

x3

[CDN_Merlin]

You kick those kids out of school at a young age they will turn to a life of crime as they won't be able to hold any type of job.

Maybe educating their parents on the importance of school and hiring more assistant teachers to help these kids in class.

[Isaac]

You kick those kids out of school at a young age they will turn to a life of crime as they won't be able to hold any type of job.

Maybe educating their parents on the importance of school and hiring more assistant teachers to help these kids in class.

Schools now=a=days are too college orientated as a measure for success. Perhap instead of trying to get everyone to go to college, those with no interest and low grades should be steered towards industrial arts. What ever happened to wood shop or auto repair classes? I suspect if those with low grades got a chance to learn to be a good craftsman, their interest in school may wax brighter, more so than trying to force them into a college curriculum.

So, maybe as an addition we have an apprenticeship system setup. When you aren't accepted into normal public schools you're required to pay for a private institution or apprenticeship with extra features. And if you can't afford to pay, you can apply for a deferred loan.

Everybody, our school system has problems and buying more Dell Inspirons for students isn't the answer. Sorry. Oh and making the lazy parents start parenting harder isn't going to happen unless an idea like this actually happens.

[Isaac]

I'm marking this as solved. My last reply pretty much fixes any concern with the idea. Anyone who disagrees appears to not have read everything I wrote.

[AlphaDoG]

OK WHatEVer!

[Duper]

Solved? no, you got sunshine blown up your back side and now you're happy.

You came up with no critical plan of implantation and no follow up. You have no projects for un-said plan. You have nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling. That is not \"solved\".

You got to hear what you wanted.

We read it. Those of us that disagree, do so because we hold different principles in esteem.

[Isaac]

I double checked... All listed concerns are met by my second reply. It's solved.

Here it is again. Enjoy:

Schools now=a=days are too college orientated as a measure for success. Perhap instead of trying to get everyone to go to college, those with no interest and low grades should be steered towards industrial arts. What ever happened to wood shop or auto repair classes? I suspect if those with low grades got a chance to learn to be a good craftsman, their interest in school may wax brighter, more so than trying to force them into a college curriculum.

So, maybe as an addition we have an apprenticeship system setup. When you aren't accepted into normal public schools you're required to pay for a private institution or apprenticeship with extra features. And if you can't afford to pay, you can apply for a deferred loan.

Everybody, our school system has problems and buying more Dell Inspirons for students isn't the answer. Sorry. Oh and making the lazy parents start parenting harder isn't going to happen unless an idea like this actually happens.

[TechPro]

I'm marking this as solved. My last reply pretty much fixes any concern with the idea. Anyone who disagrees appears to not have read everything I wrote.

Solved? No. That's only your opinion. I happen to disagree with your opinion. Disagreeing does NOT mean I did not read everything you wrote.

Don't be so arrogant to assume that people have no choice but to agree if they just read what you wrote. If you really feel that's all it takes, then why did you even bother to post it in a thread? Posting it in a thread for discussion means you knew people may not agree and was hoping viewpoints would be shared. We shared. Now take the time to read what others have wrote.

[Sergeant Thorne]

So, maybe as an addition we have an apprenticeship system setup. When you aren't accepted into normal public schools you're required to pay for a private institution or apprenticeship with extra features. And if you can't afford to pay, you can apply for a deferred loan.

A good rule in life is not to address issues for other people that you have not legitimately and successfully tackled yourself. Another good rule is not to tread on my freedom with talk of mandatory education or mandatory apprenticeship, or any other such notion. People who look at societies problems as something they can force people to fix just have a very unAmerican mindset. Education is good. So let's pretend like we live in a free country and persuade other free individuals of the fact, and let's not use amoral mediums (pop-culture media) to do it.

[Isaac]

A good rule in life is not to address issues for other people that you have not legitimately and successfully tackled yourself.

I completely agree, however I can't tell people not to post in my thread if they're not educated.

Another good rule is not to tread on my freedom with talk of mandatory education or mandatory apprenticeship, or any other such notion.

hahha..."mandatory education"? It's mandatory at the grade levels I'm referring to, except for High School.

I don't want your gut instinct. If you had seen a logical flaw in my proposal and its amendment, which you quoted, you would have written about that instead. You have nothing but emotionally based assessments, which I should be more thankful for, I guess. Call me wrong, but at least tell me why.

Why won't this work? It's flawless! Common!!!

[Spidey]

What was that about emotion?

It won’t work because you are looking at the wrong place for the problem, and punishing the victims.

And, causing more problems than you cure.

[flip]

It won't work because people are flawed.

[Isaac]

What was that about emotion?

It won’t work because you are looking at the wrong place for the problem, and punishing the victims.

And, causing more problems than you cure.

Well... If the whole community feels this way...
I give up. This idea is bad, even though I don't understand. There's something everyone else sees that I'm missing.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I don't know, Isaac, in light of what Spidey said maybe you should run for office.

What I said is not based on something as vague as a \"gut feeling\" or emotion. It is largely based on the fact that I believe in liberty as a God-given right, and I think that an awful lot of people, in looking to a goal or a desire or a fear don't care to see that our country, in many ways, does not treat its people as a free people. People want solutions, people want... whatever it happens to be that they want, and that so easily trumps individual liberty. It's as if true liberty is looked upon with disdain as being some kind of fairytale that cannot give people what they want, so it is discarded in favor of what can. But people undervalue liberty, and they don't have the foresight or the grasp of the significance of history to know the dangers of various alternatives to liberty for a free people.

[Spidey]

The real problem I see here, more so than the merits of the idea itself is…it treats a symptom instead of the problem.

Something I learned to do some time ago…

When I see a problem, instead of thinking “how could I fix that” I now think “what is causing that problem”. Then I apply the same question to the answer, only after no longer being able to answer each question, with another problem do I try to think of a solution. (because now I am probably much closer to the root problem)

Unfortunately Isaac, the problem you want to address is a symptom of a very sick society, and while you may be able to make the patient feel better…the disease will persist. And we have a lot of problems that are already being dealt with in a symptomatic way…and I’m sure in the future more will be dealt with in the same way…


Until the patient finally dies.

[Duper]

Unfortunately Isaac, the problem you want to address is a symptom of a very sick society, and while you may be able to make the patient feel better…the disease will persist. And we have a lot of problems that are already being dealt with in a symptomatic way…and I’m sure in the future more will be dealt with in the same way…

Well said Spidey. My daughter dropped out of highschool and has a "condition" that was exaserbating an already difficult situation. I've see in schools too much of a sick society. That is why I responded so harshly. Kids aren't water bottles. You don't just throw them away or they litter up your city.

Cuda, how long to you have your kids? How long to you keep trying to see that they walk a good path?

[CUDA]

Cuda, how long to you have your kids?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here

How long to you keep trying to see that they walk a good path?

is she 17??? thats probably the worst age for any kid. I wanted to kill 7 out of my 8 kids at that age. somehow My 7th child (son) is an angel he's almost 19.

rely on God's Promise

Proverbs 22:6

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

notice what it says "and when he is old" which means that they will wander as they become adults. remember the prodigal son. if you raised her in the Nuture and admiration of the Lord she will return.

I had problems with all my kids around that age. my 2nd daughter especially. she moved out and in with her older brother and his wife at 17. the night she left I remember her standing in the middle of my living room doing the funky chicken (jumping up and down flapping her arms because she was so mad at me) now she's a model Daughter. they all stray at that age and hopefully in her early 20's she'll come back, so far all of mine have. don't compromise and don't stop being her father. if you do she will look elsewhere for one. follow God's tennants.

train them up.
do not provoke them to anger.

pro·voke (pr-vk)
tr.v. pro·voked, pro·vok·ing, pro·vokes
1. To incite to anger or resentment.
4. To bring about deliberately; induce: provoke a fight.

and Don't spare the rod.
IE: continue to administer discipline, although she's probably too old to whup

But stoning is acceptble

[flip]

Thanks for that Cuda. I've got a 16 year old that has just lost her mind. I gained custody of her when she was 3 and her very absent mother finally talked her into moving away with her at 16 =/. Those are comforting words and it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

[CUDA]

flip GL, parenting the both the greatest joy you\"ll ever have and also the greatest heartache. Pray to God everyday, be specific in those prayers and here's the hard part. believe that he will be faithfull to answer them, but you also must be willing to accept what ever answer he gives you. specific prayers produce specific answers. general prayers produce vauge unsure if he responded answers

[Duper]

Cuda, how long to you have your kids?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here

Sorry, That was a bit obscure. I'll back fill.

When I was a young father and things were getting more than I could handle, I used to think that when my daughter grew up and moved out she would be "outta my hair" (assuming I still had hair then).
I found out that is not true. You ALWAYS have your kids. You are always giving input in their lives. You are Always their parent.

so my apologies. I know there are others here that can attest to this. I know you, Cuda, and that's why I "singled you out".

Great answer!
Happy Memorial day Bro!