peace activists??

[CUDA]

I'm surprised no one has discussed this topic

peace activists with stun grenades, chains and metal bars


peace activists being peacefull with metal bars and chains


weapons stash used by peace activists


peace activist learning how to use a knife


such peaceful people. it doesnt seem like they planned this at all

[Duper]

wow. This is the first I've heard of it.

[CUDA]

More info

Yet the Turkish group that funded and ran the boat the Mavi Marmara, where the confrontation occurred is documented as having ties to terrorists, was named in federal court papers as playing a role in the failed millennium bomb plot and is named in a C.I.A. report in 1996 as having links to terrorist groups. The Foundation for Human Rights and Humanitarian Relief (IHH) is a Muslim charity and non-government organization (NGO) that was formed in 1992 with the goal of assisting Muslims in Bosnia. Since then it has branched out to many places including Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Somalia and the Palestinian territories

[Behemoth]

I would've opened fire real quick, use some non-lethal crowd control measures or something. That was a disaster.

[Grendel]

What's the problem ? If you attack someone in international waters be prepared to face resistance.

Israel is pissing me of. Time for them to live up to the morals they try to impose on others. They should know better.

BTW, look carefully at the source of the material.

[Tunnelcat]

Yeah, I watched the video and you can clearly see the people on the ship immediately start beating the commandos with pipes and bars as they land on the deck. I would have fired my weapon in self defense too.

[CUDA]

BTW, look carefully at the source of the material.

AGREE, but do not ignore other the information thats been presented either. there is wrong on both sides. Israel has been at war since its inception in 1948 and for 3000 years before that.

the Activists had a way to get their "humanitarian aid" to Gaza. Israel offered it to them. they chose another route, they are every bit as much to blame as the IDF for the deaths that occured

[Will Robinson]

That ships mission was not to expeditiously deliver goods to Gaza it was sent to bust a blockade and stir the pot. The cargo was a prop.

The lack of honesty in the reporting is both predictable and troubling...well, unless you are a friend of radical muslims it is anyway.

[Nightshade]

Seems Turkey has decided to take the lead away from Iran in who wants to lead the new islamic caliphate:

Is Turkey Ready for War?

That is the question that we must all answer and rather quickly. Here is some evidence that they may well be. This from Debka

Furthermore, the Irish vessel Rachel Corrie, which was left out of the flotilla after it developed technical trouble, was discovered to have changed course from a direct route to Gaza and headed for a stopover at a Turkish port. Debkafile’s counter-terror sources disclose suspicions in the Israeli government and naval command that the Irish ship would take aboard a new batch of trained Turkish IHH terrorists and head for the Gaza Strip. They might even be the same IHH activists who attacked Israeli commandos on the Marmara and were deported Wednesday.
Erdogan has resolved that this group which he personally sponsored will reach Gaza Port by hook or by crook. It is also feared in Jerusalem that he may attach an escort of Turkish warships and air force jets to accompany the Rachel Corrie and make sure the ship breaks through the blockade to its destination.

The Irish ship was first scheduled to anchor Saturday, June 5, but its detour to Turkey will delay its arrival by a couple of days.

Analysis. And if the Turks escort the Rachel Corrie and they are met by an Israeli warship and IAF fighters? Neither side will back down. There is no guarantee that the Israeli Navy will prevail. If the Israelis fire first, do they become the aggressor even though the Turks are trying to break a blockade in which they have no logical interest? Do the Turks invoke Article Five of the NATO treaty? What does the US do then? Who is behind this mess? Is this “retribution” for the US calling the Iran, Brazil, Turkey nuclear deal a sham? Is Iran becoming so unstable that it needs a war to unite the nation?

There are a lot more questions that require answers. But the first one is the most important. Is Turkey ready for war? I believe that it may well be at least politically. This “break the blockade” move didn’t appear out of thin air. We can expect that the Rachel Corrie will embark a lot more people and sail with more than the thirteen to fifteen people reported to be aboard right now. As with the Marmara, some number of those will be terrorists ready to resist any Israeli attempt to board the ship. The Israelis will board this time with overwhelming force. There will be a mess.

Erdogan has put his political career on the line. If he fails to get the Rachel Corrie through the blockade he may well be taken out of office. The Turkish military may well yet throw him out of office. They may support him as this becomes a point of national honor for Turkey. Let me be real clear about this. If Turkey ends up going to war with Israel, there is every reason to believe that the rest of the islamic neighbors of Israel will also with the possible exception of Jordan. But Turkey and Egypt together have the power to defeat Israel or force it to resort to nuclear weapons. And neither side will back down.

Posted by Richard Radcliffe at 3:45 pm

http://www.worldthreats.com/?p=2566

[woodchip]

I would like to point out that the whole envelope of what is being pointed out here is a direct result of Obama's turning his back on Israel and presenting a weak posture on Iran. With a inept president in charge we are now seeing the fruits of his timid approach to the middle east snake nest. I wonder if Obama will be satisfied when a all out war breaks out and Israel suffers untold casualties. After all, if Obama is willing to throw his minister of 20 years under the bus just to achieve high office, why not do the same with Israel? Would solve the middle east problem I guess.

[CUDA]

uhm Spidey if all out war erupts over Israel, I would suggest people start reading the Book of Revelation

behold the Valley of Armaggedon

[flip]

Everything else is in place. The only thing that needs to happen now is every nation to turn against Israel. Even so AMEN.

[Behemoth]

That's a little ways off, until the U.N denounces isreal (which i don't see happening soon) we still have plenty of plagues to go.
this oil spill in the gulf is a pretty big thing to me, we haven't seen how bad it's going to affect us all yet.

[flip]

The oil spill is manmade. When God judges, everyone will know who's doing the judging. Plus, all nations will turn against Israel before the antichrist comes to reign, or how else can he make a pact with them?

[flip]

One thing I'd like to do before we \"discuss\" this is hang a plumb line. I often hear people refer to that book as just Revelations but that is somewhat misleading. the correct way of looking at that book is by it's full name \"The Revelation Of Jesus Christ\".

By using that title we can understand that the book is not just covering \"end times\" but the whole process by which Jesus was revealed to the world and Him as the beginning and ending of this present age. All this contingent on the OP's go ahead of course.

[CUDA]

One thing I'd like to do before we "discuss" this is hang a plumb line. I often hear people refer to that book as just Revelations but that is somewhat misleading. the correct way of looking at that book is by it's full name "The Revelation Of Jesus Christ".

By using that title we can understand that the book is not just covering "end times" but the whole process by which Jesus was revealed to the world and Him as the beginning and ending of this present age. All this contingent on the OP's go ahead of course.

I never have a problem discussing scriptures. especially with this topic since there is no doubt in my mind they are directly related.

oh and I refered to it as "The Book of Revelation" sans the s

and More precisely it should be refered to as the Book of the Revelation of John. since what was revealed was revealed to John

[Duper]

God's judgements were also \"man made\" or exacted by man at times. How many times did god use another peoples to sack a group the was disobediant?

The symbolism in revelation is obscure and a thorough understanding of the old testament writings is needed to really understand what is being said.
Remember that the woes and such won’t come into play until the Church is outta here. (and yes, I realize that’s a whole ‘nuther discussion.)

Personally, I think that Israel was justified. They had more than probable cause. Their intelligence is among the best in the world. And as Cuda pointed out, given the organization, it isn’t hard to put two and two together.
(besides… they’re going to make pyro for us later on! )

[flip]

Ok I understand what your saying Cuda but I disagree that John is the main focal point here. Jesus said He \"is the Alpha and Omega\" and the main focus of the whole book is him subduing all things back to himself. Who he decided to reveal it to has little bearing in my assessment. The title of the book is the revealing of Jesus Christ to the world. My assessment so far is that is that 6 seals have already been open.

I disagree Duper that the church will be gone, at least until the last trumpet is sounded. I do believe that the bowls of wrath are reserved just for the ungodly and unrepentent but how can the antichrist make war with the saints unless they are still here to make war with?

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

I see this as a very big problem in the modern church. Everyone is preparing for the coming of the lord, but no one is preparing for the tribulation.

[Krom]

(besides… they’re going to make pyro for us later on! )

:highfive: Hell yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this...

[Duper]

(besides… they’re going to make pyro for us later on! )

:highfive: Hell yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this...

Yur such a geek.

Flip, in Pre-trib escetology, the saints you point out are stated as those that receive Christ after the rapture. While I lean toward this idea, I don't bother hanging on to any escetology too fenatically as it will all come down as it's supposed to regardless of what I think of it. I wasn't told to worry about. I was told to bring the gospel to all people. in other word, upper managment has their end covered.

[flip]

yeah I think in this case we should just stay with what is written and make our own conclusions based on our own findings. A good case of circular reasoning if you will. The bible interprets itself. In any case, the rapture as described in the bible is determined to be at the last trumpet. Then we also read in revelations of that last trumpet

\"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.\"

here it is said that the time, at the 7th trumpet, is and I quote:

for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—

sounds to be all inclusive meaning every believer from the time of the prophets to now. They all receive their award at the same time.

[Tunnelcat]

Cloak and dagger stuff now.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish- ... 25309.html

[CUDA]

An Israel newspaper reported “A senior officer in the Israel Defence Forces hinted that the IDF sabotaged the engines of five ships, saying “they took care of them.” The Colonel also told the newspaper that the army decided not to sabotage the Turkish ferry, Mavi Mamara which was attacked on Monday

hinted??? apparently we have unsubstantiated accusations and no real evidence.

but honestly Mossad is very effective. and it could be true but the whole language of the article Israel is already tried and found guilty before all the facts are presented

also the correct term would be boarded. there is a difference.

[CUDA]

yeah I think in this case we should just stay with what is written and make our own conclusions based on our own findings. A good case of circular reasoning if you will. The bible interprets itself. In any case, the rapture as described in the bible is determined to be at the last trumpet. Then we also read in revelations of that last trumpet

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

here it is said that the time, at the 7th trumpet, is and I quote:

for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—

sounds to be all inclusive meaning every believer from the time of the prophets to now. They all receive their award at the same time.

unfortunately if I have a true weak spot in my biblical knowledge its Revelation. infact I'm trying to get my bible study to walk trough that book next. so dont be surprised if I dont chime in tons

[flip]

Thats fine and I completely understand that. I have much difficulty with it myself. There is a reason I think this has become the issue and it's something I've argued since I was a child.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Here again we hear that the rapture will not happen until the antichrist is revealed and that because of him and his war with the saints (wrath, torture, beating, beheading, killing and raping of our loved ones) that MANY will fall away. I assume this means go ahead and accept the mark of the beast.

If that's the case and anyone really believes these words, then I would not only prepare myself for his coming, but also to endure affliction and persecution too.

[Behemoth]

I don't believe there is going to be a \"rapture\" the way modern trends have pushed it as.
In fact, i don't remember there being a point in the bible where it says any believer is not going to experience the tribulation period at all.
However for the sake of not being linear sighted in my opinion i'm open to being corrected if you can provide insight.
As for the oilspill being man-made, that has no bearing on the fact that God does his work through people many times through scripture and i personally believe that his agents on earth are his chosen followers who walk this earth under the authority of his name, i say this because i myself am subject to no human being nor will i ever be, save Christ himself.
that being said, i believe we are God's very agents in this world, and in the Spirit is where our battle lies, not with flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places. This could be thought of as governmental powers controlled by demonic influences (which is quite obvious to us) but also the very spirits themselves which are subjected under us through the authority of The Name.

If i have no one to agree with me that's fine, i only pray my Father opens your eyes sooner or later.

[Nightshade]

Ya'll can put your bibles away because this has nothing to do with religious end times.

What we're witnessing is the destruction of Israel.

Israel's fate is sealed no matter how many nukes it has. After its last nuke is used and all arab lands are in smoldering ruin, the rest of the world will descend upon Israel and finish it.

[Behemoth]

lol
that was about the most ignorant post i've ever read here.
thanks for the entertainment
The day isreal has nothing to do with what's written in prophecy is the day the moon and stars wash away.

[CUDA]

Ya'll can put your bibles away because this has nothing to do with religious end times.

What we're witnessing is the destruction of Israel.

Israel's fate is sealed no matter how many nukes it has. After its last nuke is used and all arab lands are in smoldering ruin, the rest of the world will descend upon Israel and finish it.

This has everything to do with "religious end times" and the Prophecies laid out in scriptures. if you knew the Prophecies you would see the correlation. there is NO mistaking it.

[flip]

No I agree with you Behe and that's the point I'm trying to make. I believe that christians WILL go through the tribulation and since for the last 75 years all they've heard about is how easy it is to be saved they are scarcely prepared. Because of that a great deal of them are gonna fall away and then on top of that, start pointing out where the real christians are hiding.

I also agree with you on God using man to punish but not in this case as it relates to the end times.

Cross reference Revelation 6:16 with Mark 3:5.
In one John is saying the same thing Jesus said in Mark

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

There will be no doubt at that time that there is a God and that this is his punishment for not repenting. Read also of the 7 trumpets in which the woes are revealed.

Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

There is nothing in this description that man is even possible for him to do. I mean it says a 1/3 of the ships are destroyed. That would have to be an act of God. A huge sunami caused by a meteor? I dunno I hate to speculate, but definitely nothing a man could lay claim to.

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Here we see the word saying that the sea becomes as blood of a dead man and every creature in the sea dies. Now blood doesn't move through a dead man, it stops moving. As soon as the oceans stop moving all life in them will die. There has to be something catastrophic concerning the moon and whatever else that controls the tides to make the oceans quit moving. All these things are way beyond the control of man, and everyone who accepted the mark of the beast will know they have been condemned by God and that it is His judgement coming on them.

[Behemoth]

There's things that are approaching soon, but the time hasn't ripened yet.
It all has it's own time alloted and it's important to remember that.

[flip]

Not to step on your toes or offend you Behe , but when it comes to biblical matters I like to stay to exactly what's written. You cannot say or believe what you just said with any confidence.

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

[Bet51987]

.

[flip]

Well then it's obvious to you I'm not scared one bit to look stupid. Feel better?

[woodchip]

Well it's official. Jews should go back to Germany and Poland. This according to aging and daft press corp member Helen Thomas:

http://www.breitbart.tv/helen-thomas-te ... any-poland.

Israel will end not with a bang but a whimper.

[Behemoth]

Not to step on your toes or offend you Behe , but when it comes to biblical matters I like to stay to exactly what's written. You cannot say or believe what you just said with any confidence.

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

everything i've said is written.

[CUDA]

This is just more of the stuff that makes religion look stupid.

Bee

Ignorance is bliss eh Bee

We all call what we do not understand stupid

[flip]

Ok using the scripture and not your own words prove and qualify this statement:

There's things that are approaching soon, but the time hasn't ripened yet.
It all has it's own time alloted and it's important to remember that.

[Heretic]

Ya'll can put your bibles away because this has nothing to do with religious end times.

What we're witnessing is the destruction of Israel.

Israel's fate is sealed no matter how many nukes it has. After its last nuke is used and all arab lands are in smoldering ruin, the rest of the world will descend upon Israel and finish it.

Zech 14:1-2

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Luke 21:20-24

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rev 11:1-2

1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Seems to me it has every thing to do with the end of times.

[Duper]

heh, well technically, the Re-formation of Israel has to do with end times. One of the few real prophecies we have ever actually witnessed. ... Well our parents did.

Personally, I'm a bit surprised to see so many here delighted with the prospect of Israel's demise.

And isn't it curious how so much of what's going on in the world revolves around such a \"silly little country\" as Israel?