DescentBB

Our Founding Fathers wrote:we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor

CUDA wrote:

Our Founding Fathers wrote:we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor

Men of Character

Its a shame how far Politians have fallen.

Will Robinson wrote:They used to stand tall and independent challenging each other over philosophy and any sign of slip in integrity or character.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[72] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

they are seldom people of principle.

CUDA wrote:I think he missed the Point. the Founding Fathers. stood for something. something that they were willing to risk everything for. even their lives, because there is no doubt they would have been executed if they were caught.

Politicians today have no such honor. they are seldom people of principle. the only thing they stand for is pandering to the people to keep them in power. they run from anything that would jeopardize that.

They stood for personal gain most of the time

We Pledge Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor

Our Founding Fathers paid the price for the United States of America.
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist
Copyright 2000 Boston Globe



On July 2, 1776, the Continental Congress voted 12-0 -- New York abstained -- in favor of Richard Henry Lee's resolution \"that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States.\"

On July 4, the Declaration of Independence drafted by Thomas Jefferson -- heavily edited by Congress -- was adopted without dissent. On July 8, the Declaration was publicly proclaimed in Philadelphia. On July 15, Congress learned that the New York Legislature had decided to endorse the Declaration. On Aug. 2, a parchment copy was presented to the Congress for signature. Most of the 56 men who put their name to the document did so that day.

And then?

We tend to forget that to sign the Declaration of Independence was to commit an act of treason -- and the punishment for treason was death. To publicly accuse George III of \"repeated injuries and usurpations,\" to announce that Americans were therefore \"Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown,\" was a move fraught with danger -- so much so that the names of the signers were kept secret for six months

They were risking everything, and they knew it. That is the meaning of the Declaration's soaring last sentence:

\"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.\"

Most of the signers survived the war; several went on to illustrious careers.

Two of them became presidents of the United States, and among the others were future vice presidents, senators, and governors. But not all were so fortunate.

Nine of the 56 died during the Revolution, and never tasted American independence.

Five were captured by the British.

Eighteen had their homes -- great estates, some of them - looted or burnt by the enemy.

Some lost everything they owned.

Two were wounded in battle.

Two others were the fathers of sons killed or captured during the war.

\"Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.\" It was not just a rhetorical flourish.

We all recognize John Hancock's signature, but who ever notices the names beneath his? William Ellery, Thomas Nelson, Richard Stockton, Button Gwinnett, Francis Lewis -- to most of us, these are names without meaning.

But each represents a real human being, some of whom paid dearly \"for the support of this Declaration\" and American independence.

Lewis Morris of New York, for example, must have known when he signed the Declaration that he was signing away his fortune. Within weeks, the British ravaged his estate, destroyed his vast woodlands, butchered his cattle, and sent his family fleeing for their lives.

Another New Yorker, William Floyd, was also forced to flee when the British plundered his property. He and his family lived as refugees for seven years without income. The strain told on his wife; she died two years before the war ended.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, an aristocratic planter who had invested heavily in shipping, saw most of his vessels captured by the British navy. His estates were largely ruined, and by the end of his life he was a pauper.

The home of William Ellery, a Rhode Island delegate, was burned to the ground during the occupation of Newport.

Thomas Heyward Jr., Edward Rutledge, and Arthur Middleton, three members of the South Carolina delegation, all suffered the destruction or vandalizing of their homes at the hands of enemy troops. All three were captured when Charleston fell in 1780, and spent a year in a British prison.

\"Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.\"

Thomas Nelson Jr. of Virginia raised $2 million for the patriots' cause on his own personal credit. The government never reimbursed him, and repaying the loans wiped out his entire estate. During the battle of Yorktown, his house, which had been seized by the British, was occupied by General Cornwallis. Nelson quietly urged the gunners to fire on his own home. They did so, destroying it. He was never again a man of wealth. He died bankrupt and was buried in an unmarked grave.

Richard Stockton, a judge on New Jersey's supreme court, was betrayed by loyalist neighbors. He was dragged from his bed and thrown in prison, where he was brutally beaten and starved. His lands were devastated, his horses stolen, his library burnt. He was freed in 1777, but his health had so deteriorated that he died within five years. His family lived on charity for the rest of their lives.

In the British assault on New York, Francis Lewis's home and property were pillaged. His wife was captured and imprisoned; so harshly was she treated that she died soon after her release. Lewis spent the remainder of his days in relative poverty.

And then there was John Hart. The speaker of the New Jersey Assembly, he was forced to flee in the winter of 1776, at the age of 65, from his dying wife's bedside. While he hid in forests and caves, his home was demolished, his fields and mill laid waste, and his 13 children put to flight. When it was finally safe for him to return, he found his wife dead, his children missing, and his property decimated. He never saw any of his family again and died, a shattered man, in 1779.

The men who signed that piece of parchment in 1776 were the elite of their colonies. They were men of means and social standing, but for the sake of liberty, they pledged it all -- their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

CUDA wrote:

They stood for personal gain most of the time

Our founding fathers fought against Tyranny and oppression by the crown. if thats for personal gain then so be it.

null0010 wrote:

CUDA wrote:

They stood for personal gain most of the time

Our founding fathers fought against Tyranny and oppression by the crown. if thats for personal gain then so be it.

They fought against the 'tyranny' of a country that wanted them to (oh, horrors!) pay taxes that went to pay Britain's war debt from the French and Indian War, a war that was started by the colonies, more specifically, George Washington himself.

The French Indian War was one of a series of wars between the British and French starting as early as the 1600s. The French Indian War took place from 1754 to 1763.

Events Leading to the War

In the 1750s, France and Britain were fighting in Europe. The war was now spreading to North America. British Colonists wanted to take over French land in North America. The British wanted to take over the fur trade in the French held territory

null0010 wrote:

CUDA wrote:I think he missed the Point. the Founding Fathers. stood for something. something that they were willing to risk everything for. even their lives, because there is no doubt they would have been executed if they were caught.

Politicians today have no such honor. they are seldom people of principle. the only thing they stand for is pandering to the people to keep them in power. they run from anything that would jeopardize that.

They stood for personal gain most of the time, they were just far less cowardly than today's politicians. I'll give them that, they were brave as hell. But to say they had "honor" or "principles" that today's politicians lack is just historical blindness.

CUDA wrote:uhm in 1754 Washinton was a 22 year old BRITISH Citizen and part of the Virginia Militia under BRITISH command

wikipedia wrote:In 1754, Virginia lieutenant governor Robert Dinwiddie, also an investor in the Ohio Company, commissioned Washington a Lieutenant Colonel and ordered him to lead an expedition to Fort Duquesne to drive out the French Canadians. With his American Indian allies led by Tanacharison, Washington and his troops ambushed a French Canadian scouting party of some 30 men, led by Joseph Coulon de Jumonville. This action is regarded as the first hostility leading to the global Seven Years' War, as the French responded by attacking Fort Necessity which Washington had erected, and the British would later send two regiments to engage with the French.

null0010 wrote:...
Will, the point I am trying to make is not that the founders were The Worst Americans To Live, but that to place them upon ridiculous pedestals is, well, ridiculous. I'm tired of this American idea that the people who wrote our Constitution were saints or somehow incorruptible.....

But to say they had "honor" or "principles" that today's politicians lack is just historical blindness.

Spidey wrote:The question is…who is at the vanguard of advanced thinking today?

Liberals…hardly.

Cuda68 wrote:Bill Clinton - Mr. Morals himself yea he knows best

null0010 wrote:

Cuda68 wrote:Bill Clinton - Mr. Morals himself yea he knows best

Considering Jefferson had an affair with one of his slaves, I'd say he's in good company.

Cuda68 wrote:

null0010 wrote:

Cuda68 wrote:Bill Clinton - Mr. Morals himself yea he knows best

Considering Jefferson had an affair with one of his slaves, I'd say he's in good company.

Did you not knock the founding fathers?? Now your sticking up for them?

null0010 wrote:

Cuda68 wrote:

null0010 wrote:

Cuda68 wrote:Bill Clinton - Mr. Morals himself yea he knows best

Considering Jefferson had an affair with one of his slaves, I'd say he's in good company.

Did you not knock the founding fathers?? Now your sticking up for them?

Opinions can be more complicated than "_________ is good/bad."

Political satire is a significant part of satire that specializes in gaining entertainment from politics; it has also been used with subversive intent where political speech and dissent are forbidden by a regime, as a method of advancing political arguments where such arguments are expressly forbidden.

null0010 wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:They used to stand tall and independent challenging each other over philosophy and any sign of slip in integrity or character.

What in the damn hell history have you been reading? Politicians have always been slimy. The closest any of the "founding fathers" ever came to non-slimy was probably George Mason, but even he wanted a Bill of Rights for mostly selfish reasons.

Heretic wrote:Yes I like getting my political views from Jon Liebowitz aka Steward an American political satirist, writer, television host, actor, media critic and stand-up comedian who runs a satirical news program.

Heretic wrote:Did I say Clinton?

Heretic wrote:They are just at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

null0010 wrote:I don't think Glenn Beck really has an oppposite on the left, or anywhere for that matter. Now, folks like Olbermann are most assuredly the opposite of folks like O'Reilly, yeah.

null0010 wrote:I don't think Glenn Beck really has an oppposite on the left, or anywhere for that matter. Now, folks like Olbermann are most assuredly the opposite of folks like O'Reilly, yeah.

AlphaDoG wrote:

null0010 wrote:I don't think Glenn Beck really has an oppposite on the left, or anywhere for that matter. Now, folks like Olbermann are most assuredly the opposite of folks like O'Reilly, yeah.

Two, well four words:
Ed Schultz
Lawrence O'Donnell