DescentBB

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:40 am**

Backwater Oregon seems to be garnering more interest for terrorists bent on destruction and death. What strikes me is that the only national media to carry the story this morning was MSNBC. Everyone else was blathering on about either Korea, the Royal Wedding, Tiger Woods or business news. If this happened in New York or DC, there would be ad nauseum wall-to-wall coverage from all the networks for days. I'll be interested to see how it gets picked up.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/ ... 002e0.html

This guy was living in Corvallis, my locale, when he hatched his plot, and the idiot was actually a Somali-born pre-engineering student going to Oregon State University, where I went to school.

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:14 am**

you should expand your reading materials

http://www.foxnews.com/
front page Fox news

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/27/fe ... mbing-ore/

the main article

EDIT: FYI I saw this article when I woke up at 5AM PST. after I got hom from the Ducks routing of Arizona

TC wrote:Oregon State University, where I went to school

well that explains everything. if he'd been a Duck this never would have happened.

just a little civil war jab

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:21 pm**

Heh, Somalia...thats where I'd let a person come from to study engineering here.

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:49 pm**

Yes.

There is no pattern of incidence, no common thread or belief system.

It's just an isolated messed up kid.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... in-US.html

I expect some militant Amish kid to attack at any minute!

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:43 pm**

heh... I think ThunderBunny found a nail gun and misfired it at a coffin for post-9/11 propaganda. :)

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:29 pm**

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/fbi- ... -car-bomb/

article wrote:A Somali-born American teenager was apparently set up by federal law enforcement officials who posed as radical Islamic fighters and lured the young man into a plot he believed would lead him to detonate a car bomb at an Oregon Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

The bomb, provided by FBI agents, was "inert" and did not pose a threat to public safety, according to the US Attorney's Office in Oregon.

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:19 pm**

to bad your source doesn't list the fact the kid started email sources in pakistan to get help for his bomb plot and Feds read his email. From there the feds handled just like any criminal. You really need to get away from those weird web sites:

\"Court documents said the case began in August 2009 with e-mail exchanges between Mr Mohamud and his alleged associate in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province.\"

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:45 pm**

Police work foils a bomb plot.

who'da thunk?

Posted: **Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:47 pm**

woodchip wrote:to bad your source doesn't list the fact the kid started email sources in pakistan to get help for his bomb plot and Feds read his email. From there the feds handled just like any criminal. You really need to get away from those weird web sites:

"Court documents said the case began in August 2009 with e-mail exchanges between Mr Mohamud and his alleged associate in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province."

And a newspaper from Ghana is less "weird?"

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:17 am**

What is bothersome is this kid may have never followed through to the point anyone was in danger if not for the 'help' of the police....

It is a very fine line.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:50 am**

Ferno wrote:Police work foils a bomb plot.

who'da thunk?

lol

what he said!

this is basically the solution to every news headline ever. :P

Will Robinson wrote:What is bothersome is this kid may have never followed through to the point anyone was in danger if not for the 'help' of the police....

It is a very fine line.

what he said!

Someone please tell me I'm not the first to want to use a Lost in Space joke here. <3

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:03 am**

Will Robinson wrote:What is bothersome is this kid may have never followed through to the point anyone was in danger if not for the 'help' of the police....

It is a very fine line.

I think stuff like this is a very big problem in the country. Law Enforcement should watch for things and when they find something, put a more focused eyeball on the suspect and see what develops. If its just angst coming out and it goes away after a while, well then there's not really anything more to do.

But what seems to be going on with crap like this is that the police invent a crime to foil. They take someone who is at some point where he could be convinced to attempt a crime if given the right persuasion, and they give him said persuasion. There is no guarantee that a crime would have been comitted if the police had been involved at all. It is my opinion that crap like this should be considered entrapment. The crime needs to be engineered and committed 100% by the suspect otherwise the police officers involved should be prosecuted as accomplices.

Now, on the other side of the line are other things like honeypot scenarios where the cops say, leave an unlocked car out on the street in an area known for car theft and wait to see if someone tries to take it, and when they do, they disable everything and lock the car so its only openable from the outside. In cases like that, the criminal did 100% of the work, as long as the cops didn't set the car up in any way that a normal person who parks on the street would.

Cops should enforce the law, not push someone to break it so they can get some glory arrest.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:13 pm**

The kid isn't exactly an \"innocent\" either. I think ya'll are forgetting that.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:18 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:The kid isn't exactly an "innocent" either. I think ya'll are forgetting that.

That doesn't matter. The police shouldn't help someone try and commit a crime. What they did is called entrapment.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:31 pm**

Ayn Rand wrote:The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:46 pm**

Ferno wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:The kid isn't exactly an "innocent" either. I think ya'll are forgetting that.
That doesn't matter. The police shouldn't help someone try and commit a crime. What they did is called entrapment.

We are seemingly forgetting the kid could of backed out at any time. The police simply offered up what the kid was looking for and supplied what he thought he wanted. The police did not go to some innocent person and say, "Hey, we can supply you explosives. Would you like to blow something up in the name of Allah?" The kid was actively looking for a terrorist source and heaven help the tree lighting folks if the Feds did not step in. As I see it there is one less mass killer off the street.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:14 pm**

CUDA wrote:you should expand your reading materials

http://www.foxnews.com/
front page Fox news

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/27/fe ... mbing-ore/

the main article

EDIT: FYI I saw this article when I woke up at 5AM PST. after I got hom from the Ducks routing of Arizona

TC wrote:Oregon State University, where I went to school
well that explains everything. if he'd been a Duck this never would have happened.

just a little civil war jab

I was up at 6AM that morning and when I heard the news from a local Portland affiliate. I then channel surfed looking for more info. Everybody, EXCEPT MSNBC, including Fox News, made no mention, even a quickie at the top of the hour. Later on, they all seemed to pick it up, finally. It's just that at first, it wasn't the usual wall to wall screaming coverage that a city back east gets when this stuff goes down. I mean, who back east gives a crap about anything in Oregon?

As for the Civil War CUDA, I really hope the Beavs stomp the Duck's little Rose Bowl hopes, hee, hee! We've spoiled it for them before and luck in on our side, the game IS being played on OUR home turf, so tough tooties quackers (I hope).

Back to the topic. Everyone in this state is going apoplectic over this stupid thing! Someone even tried to burn down the Mosque here in Corvallis last night! I took a quickie drive down King's Boulevard when I went to the store this morning and the side streets next to the Mosque were packed with news reporters and their trucks. They apparently raced down from Portland in record time when they first heard of the fire. I can see it now, a parade of TV news trucks racing down I5 at top speed, all trying to get to little podunk Corvallis for a minuscule fire story (it didn't burn down either). The local paper doesn't say it, but it's been confirmed as arson now.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/ ... 03286.html

So some of you think this bozo was entrapped by the FBI? Everyone needs to read a more detailed account then. Like woodchip pointed out, he was given ample opportunity to back out. The FBI claims they tried to thwart or dissuade him several times and he STILL pressed on. No, this guy's a terrorist. The FBI only contacted him after he apparently tried and failed to get an email response from a second contact in Pakistan. He'd already been in email contact with a first contact by then, so he was seeking out trouble on his own volition. And then there was that little attempt and failure to fly to Alaska and then on to Yemen, all the while being flagged on the 'do not fly' list!

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/inde ... _bomb.html

His joyous descriptions of how women and children would be among the piled dead after his 'bomb' had done it's job wasn't very nice either. He even thought that people jumping from the World Trade Center on 9/11 was "awesome"! CRAP!

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/inde ... ing_i.html

Something else fascinating. He apparently went to high school in Beaverton, OR and you know what his high school science project was? He made a presentation to his class on how a rocket propelled grenade launcher worked! Many of his classmates thought it was "weird", but no one thought it weird enough to set off any alarm bells in people's minds. Lets see, interested in how a 'rocket propelled grenade launcher' works and originally from 'Somalia'.....ding, ding, ding, ding!

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:53 pm**

woodchip wrote:We are seemingly forgetting the kid could of backed out at any time. The police simply offered up what the kid was looking for and supplied what he thought he wanted. The police did not go to some innocent person and say, "Hey, we can supply you explosives. Would you like to blow something up in the name of Allah?" The kid was actively looking for a terrorist source and heaven help the tree lighting folks if the Feds did not step in. As I see it there is one less mass killer off the street.

the kid doesn't need help from the police for that.

Last i checked, you have to commit a crime on your own to be caught.

so until he's actually committed a crime, he is innocent. and in this case, that wouldn't have happened if they didn't offer their 'help'.

Intent just on it's own isn't enough. you need motive, opportunity, and knowledge to establish guilt. And in this case, he was provided with an opportunity that he wouldn't have otherwise had at that point in time.

The point is this: the police acted on circumstantial evidence, which was partially provided to the person in question.

Another question arises here is how was the FBI able to monitor his emails?

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:48 pm**

Neo wrote:heh... I think ThunderBunny found a nail gun and misfired it at a coffin for post-9/11 propaganda.

You should pay more attention to what is going on in the world before saying its propaganda.

Posted: **Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:16 pm**

Ferno wrote:

so until he's actually committed a crime, he is innocent. and in this case, that wouldn't have happened if they didn't offer their 'help'.

You're so sure of this that you would bet the lives of your friends and family?

Ferno wrote:The point is this: the police acted on circumstantial evidence, which was partially provided to the person in question.

Read TC's post. Nothing circumstantial about a wacko trying to contact terrorists in Pakistan with the intent of blowing something up.

Ferno wrote:Another question arises here is how was the FBI able to monitor his emails?

Remember the term "Carnivore"?

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:09 am**

Ferno wrote:Intent just on it's own isn't enough.

Ever heard of "conspiracy to commit" all it is is the Intent to commit a crime.

"A criminal conspiracy exists when two or more people agree to commit almost any unlawful act, then take some action toward its completion. The action taken need not itself be a crime, but it must indicate that those involved in the conspiracy knew of the plan and intended to break the law. One person may be charged with and convicted of both conspiracy and the underlying crime based on the same circumstances."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/conspiracy.html

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:14 am**

Heretic wrote:
Ferno wrote:Intent just on it's own isn't enough.
Ever heard of "conspiracy to commit" all it is is the Intent to commit a crime.

"A criminal conspiracy exists when two or more people agree to commit almost any unlawful act, then take some action toward its completion. The action taken need not itself be a crime, but it must indicate that those involved in the conspiracy knew of the plan and intended to break the law. One person may be charged with and convicted of both conspiracy and the underlying crime based on the same circumstances."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/conspiracy.html

I'm not saying in this case there was entrapment but they are walking a fine line, like they often have to do. And the conspiracy angle is a good representation of how the line can be blurred. Is it a conspiracy if one of the two parties that make the agreement is actually a law enforcement undercover agent? If so how much of the impetus of the conspiracy is he allowed to own before he simply coaxed an unstable person into action?
I could probably go on line to the Daily Kos or Huffington Post and over time coax a number of liberal loudmouthed internet warriors into agreeing to help me poison President Bush's dog or something yet without my part in the creation of the conspiracy they never would have left their mothers basement...

In the case of this nutbag he scared his own parents enough to make them call the FBI so chances are good that he was on his way to action with or without the undercover operation but was he going to kill anyone on his own? We will never know.
I'm thinking it would be nice to read his Minority Report...

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:14 am**

According to the New York Times, an anonymous source in federal law enforcement, the FBI was tipped off by a Portland Muslim concerned about Mohamud's increasing radicalism. Wouldn't that alone warrant a further look by the FBI? If the fish took their bait, isn't that justification to nail the guy before he really kills a lot of people?

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/inde ... t_fel.html

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:53 am**

Oregon mosque attended by bomb plot suspect target of apparent arson

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/2 ... on/?hpt=T2

article wrote:The FBI announced a $10,000 reward Sunday for information leading to the arrest of the person or people responsible for an apparent attack on an Oregon Islamic center that was attended by the man authorities say was behind a foiled bomb plot at a recent Portland Christmas tree lighting.

A fire appears to have started sometime early Sunday morning at the Salman AlFarisi Islamic Center in Corvallis, Oregon, authorities said. The building suffered some fire and smoke damage.

Stay classy, Oregon.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:30 pm**

I posted that yesterday.

Yeah, that was the same night a bunch of probably high school-aged morons thought it would be funny to go around my neighborhood egging every car and house they possibly could. Maybe it was those very same a$$holes who thought it would be \"funny\" to burn down a mosque! I don't understand the teenage male brain.

But Corvallis isn't without hope. Lots of people came around the mosque the day after the fire and gave those members that were present in the parking lot baskets of flowers, letters of apology and offers of help.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:33 pm**

tunnelcat wrote:I posted that yesterday.

Ooops, must have missed it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:41 pm**

Will Robinson wrote:I could probably go on line to the Daily Kos or Huffington Post and over time coax a number of liberal loudmouthed internet warriors into agreeing to help me poison President Bush's ...

SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH dont say that too loud TC might take you up on it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:28 pm**

woodchip wrote:You're so sure of this that you would bet the lives of your friends and family?

you really want to go there, Sisyphus?

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:07 am**

Ferno wrote:
woodchip wrote:You're so sure of this that you would bet the lives of your friends and family?
you really want to go there, Sisyphus?

Bring it on Phaethon

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:34 am**

Will Robinson wrote:I'm not saying in this case there was entrapment but they are walking a fine line, like they often have to do. And the conspiracy angle is a good representation of how the line can be blurred. Is it a conspiracy if one of the two parties that make the agreement is actually a law enforcement undercover agent?

I agree. Arrest the police officer, too. I'm sure that all of the evidence used to convict the kid could equally be used to convict the officer, since he was the second party in the conspiracy.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:16 pm**

Then you would need to stop all prostitution stings, all drug stings, all internet pedophile stings.......and so on and so on.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:16 pm**

Sounds like a plan to me. Trim that budget!

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm**

CUDA wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:I could probably go on line to the Daily Kos or Huffington Post and over time coax a number of liberal loudmouthed internet warriors into agreeing to help me poison President Bush's ...
SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH dont say that too loud TC might take you up on it.

What, plot to kill poor little Barney? It's not his fault his master's an evil, war mongering, overspending, torturing moron!

More news, the bomber's FATHER was the one who ratted him out to the FBI. Mohamud was also accused of date rape in 2009, but never charged.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:29 pm**

tunnelcat wrote:What, plot to kill poor little Barney? It's not his fault his master's an evil, war mongering, overspending, torturing moron!

In some circles that might be considered libel.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:10 pm**

woodchip wrote:
Ferno wrote:
woodchip wrote:You're so sure of this that you would bet the lives of your friends and family?
you really want to go there, Sisyphus?
Bring it on Phaethon

hah. not only did you fail to understand what I was saying, but the fact you tried to use my family and friends as leverage in this ridiculous position of yours tells me you're a joke of a person and the Sisyphus of Stupid.

Maybe you should look at how to conduct yourself as a human first before making any kind of accusations towards anyone. In short: grow some humanity, you biological reject.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:22 pm**

Awww...look at the spittle coming out of fernies mouth he so mad. Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you.

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:30 pm**

Posted: **Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:39 pm**

itt: ad hominem

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:19 pm**

Spidey wrote:In some circles that might be considered libel.

I don't think he'd want to go to court.

Well, Mohamud's lawyer is going for the entrapment defense. What the lawyer's banking on is that the recordings of the FBI agent's first encounter with Mohamud are "gone". The excuse is that the recording equipment failed. Kind of convenient to hide a little 'grooming' of a terrorist by the FBI. I thought that the FBI never screwed up these things?

DescentBB

Left Coast Terrorist Plot Foiled

Left Coast Terrorist Plot Foiled

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