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For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:34 pm
by null0010
NOTICE: I did not write this article, I've lifted it from the following source:

http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/ ... -reactors/
Dr Josef Oehmen wrote:I am writing this text (Mar 12) to give you some peace of mind regarding some of the troubles in Japan, that is the safety of Japan’s nuclear reactors. Up front, the situation is serious, but under control. And this text is long! But you will know more about nuclear power plants after reading it than all journalists on this planet put together.

There was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity.

By “significant” I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on – say – a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.

I have been reading every news release on the incident since the earthquake. There has not been one single (!) report that was accurate and free of errors (and part of that problem is also a weakness in the Japanese crisis communication). By “not free of errors” I do not refer to tendentious anti-nuclear journalism – that is quite normal these days. By “not free of errors” I mean blatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts, due to an obvious lack of fundamental and basic understanding of the way nuclear reactors are build and operated. I have read a 3 page report on CNN where every single paragraph contained an error.

We will have to cover some fundamentals, before we get into what is going on.

Construction of the Fukushima nuclear power plants

The plants at Fukushima are so called Boiling Water Reactors, or BWR for short. Boiling Water Reactors are similar to a pressure cooker. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water send back to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The pressure cooker operates at about 250 °C.

The nuclear fuel is uranium oxide. Uranium oxide is a ceramic with a very high melting point of about 3000 °C. The fuel is manufactured in pellets (think little cylinders the size of Lego bricks). Those pieces are then put into a long tube made of Zircaloy with a melting point of 2200 °C, and sealed tight. The assembly is called a fuel rod. These fuel rods are then put together to form larger packages, and a number of these packages are then put into the reactor. All these packages together are referred to as “the core”.

The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world.

The core is then placed in the “pressure vessels”. That is the pressure cooker we talked about before. The pressure vessels is the second containment. This is one sturdy piece of a pot, designed to safely contain the core for temperatures several hundred °C. That covers the scenarios where cooling can be restored at some point.

The entire “hardware” of the nuclear reactor – the pressure vessel and all pipes, pumps, coolant (water) reserves, are then encased in the third containment. The third containment is a hermetically (air tight) sealed, very thick bubble of the strongest steel and concrete. The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), all inside the third containment. This is the so-called “core catcher”. If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is typically built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.

This third containment is then surrounded by the reactor building. The reactor building is an outer shell that is supposed to keep the weather out, but nothing in. (this is the part that was damaged in the explosion, but more to that later).

Fundamentals of nuclear reactions

The uranium fuel generates heat by nuclear fission. Big uranium atoms are split into smaller atoms. That generates heat plus neutrons (one of the particles that forms an atom). When the neutron hits another uranium atom, that splits, generating more neutrons and so on. That is called the nuclear chain reaction.

Now, just packing a lot of fuel rods next to each other would quickly lead to overheating and after about 45 minutes to a melting of the fuel rods. It is worth mentioning at this point that the nuclear fuel in a reactor can *never* cause a nuclear explosion the type of a nuclear bomb. Building a nuclear bomb is actually quite difficult (ask Iran). In Chernobyl, the explosion was caused by excessive pressure buildup, hydrogen explosion and rupture of all containments, propelling molten core material into the environment (a “dirty bomb”). Why that did not and will not happen in Japan, further below.

In order to control the nuclear chain reaction, the reactor operators use so-called “control rods”. The control rods absorb the neutrons and kill the chain reaction instantaneously. A nuclear reactor is built in such a way, that when operating normally, you take out all the control rods. The coolant water then takes away the heat (and converts it into steam and electricity) at the same rate as the core produces it. And you have a lot of leeway around the standard operating point of 250°C.

The challenge is that after inserting the rods and stopping the chain reaction, the core still keeps producing heat. The uranium “stopped” the chain reaction. But a number of intermediate radioactive elements are created by the uranium during its fission process, most notably Cesium and Iodine isotopes, i.e. radioactive versions of these elements that will eventually split up into smaller atoms and not be radioactive anymore. Those elements keep decaying and producing heat. Because they are not regenerated any longer from the uranium (the uranium stopped decaying after the control rods were put in), they get less and less, and so the core cools down over a matter of days, until those intermediate radioactive elements are used up.

This residual heat is causing the headaches right now.

So the first “type” of radioactive material is the uranium in the fuel rods, plus the intermediate radioactive elements that the uranium splits into, also inside the fuel rod (Cesium and Iodine).

There is a second type of radioactive material created, outside the fuel rods. The big main difference up front: Those radioactive materials have a very short half-life, that means that they decay very fast and split into non-radioactive materials. By fast I mean seconds. So if these radioactive materials are released into the environment, yes, radioactivity was released, but no, it is not dangerous, at all. Why? By the time you spelled “R-A-D-I-O-N-U-C-L-I-D-E”, they will be harmless, because they will have split up into non radioactive elements. Those radioactive elements are N-16, the radioactive isotope (or version) of nitrogen (air). The others are noble gases such as Argon. But where do they come from? When the uranium splits, it generates a neutron (see above). Most of these neutrons will hit other uranium atoms and keep the nuclear chain reaction going. But some will leave the fuel rod and hit the water molecules, or the air that is in the water. Then, a non-radioactive element can “capture” the neutron. It becomes radioactive. As described above, it will quickly (seconds) get rid again of the neutron to return to its former beautiful self.

This second “type” of radiation is very important when we talk about the radioactivity being released into the environment later on.

What happened at Fukushima

I will try to summarize the main facts. The earthquake that hit Japan was 5 times more powerful than the worst earthquake the nuclear power plant was built for (the Richter scale works logarithmically; the difference between the 8.2 that the plants were built for and the 8.9 that happened is 5 times, not 0.7). So the first hooray for Japanese engineering, everything held up.

When the earthquake hit with 8.9, the nuclear reactors all went into automatic shutdown. Within seconds after the earthquake started, the control rods had been inserted into the core and nuclear chain reaction of the uranium stopped. Now, the cooling system has to carry away the residual heat. The residual heat load is about 3% of the heat load under normal operating conditions.

The earthquake destroyed the external power supply of the nuclear reactor. That is one of the most serious accidents for a nuclear power plant, and accordingly, a “plant black out” receives a lot of attention when designing backup systems. The power is needed to keep the coolant pumps working. Since the power plant had been shut down, it cannot produce any electricity by itself any more.

Things were going well for an hour. One set of multiple sets of emergency Diesel power generators kicked in and provided the electricity that was needed. Then the Tsunami came, much bigger than people had expected when building the power plant (see above, factor 7). The tsunami took out all multiple sets of backup Diesel generators.

When designing a nuclear power plant, engineers follow a philosophy called “Defense of Depth”. That means that you first build everything to withstand the worst catastrophe you can imagine, and then design the plant in such a way that it can still handle one system failure (that you thought could never happen) after the other. A tsunami taking out all backup power in one swift strike is such a scenario. The last line of defense is putting everything into the third containment (see above), that will keep everything, whatever the mess, control rods in our out, core molten or not, inside the reactor.

When the diesel generators were gone, the reactor operators switched to emergency battery power. The batteries were designed as one of the backups to the backups, to provide power for cooling the core for 8 hours. And they did.

Within the 8 hours, another power source had to be found and connected to the power plant. The power grid was down due to the earthquake. The diesel generators were destroyed by the tsunami. So mobile diesel generators were trucked in.

This is where things started to go seriously wrong. The external power generators could not be connected to the power plant (the plugs did not fit). So after the batteries ran out, the residual heat could not be carried away any more.

At this point the plant operators begin to follow emergency procedures that are in place for a “loss of cooling event”. It is again a step along the “Depth of Defense” lines. The power to the cooling systems should never have failed completely, but it did, so they “retreat” to the next line of defense. All of this, however shocking it seems to us, is part of the day-to-day training you go through as an operator, right through to managing a core meltdown.

It was at this stage that people started to talk about core meltdown. Because at the end of the day, if cooling cannot be restored, the core will eventually melt (after hours or days), and the last line of defense, the core catcher and third containment, would come into play.

But the goal at this stage was to manage the core while it was heating up, and ensure that the first containment (the Zircaloy tubes that contains the nuclear fuel), as well as the second containment (our pressure cooker) remain intact and operational for as long as possible, to give the engineers time to fix the cooling systems.

Because cooling the core is such a big deal, the reactor has a number of cooling systems, each in multiple versions (the reactor water cleanup system, the decay heat removal, the reactor core isolating cooling, the standby liquid cooling system, and the emergency core cooling system). Which one failed when or did not fail is not clear at this point in time.

So imagine our pressure cooker on the stove, heat on low, but on. The operators use whatever cooling system capacity they have to get rid of as much heat as possible, but the pressure starts building up. The priority now is to maintain integrity of the first containment (keep temperature of the fuel rods below 2200°C), as well as the second containment, the pressure cooker. In order to maintain integrity of the pressure cooker (the second containment), the pressure has to be released from time to time. Because the ability to do that in an emergency is so important, the reactor has 11 pressure release valves. The operators now started venting steam from time to time to control the pressure. The temperature at this stage was about 550°C.

This is when the reports about “radiation leakage” starting coming in. I believe I explained above why venting the steam is theoretically the same as releasing radiation into the environment, but why it was and is not dangerous. The radioactive nitrogen as well as the noble gases do not pose a threat to human health.

At some stage during this venting, the explosion occurred. The explosion took place outside of the third containment (our “last line of defense”), and the reactor building. Remember that the reactor building has no function in keeping the radioactivity contained. It is not entirely clear yet what has happened, but this is the likely scenario: The operators decided to vent the steam from the pressure vessel not directly into the environment, but into the space between the third containment and the reactor building (to give the radioactivity in the steam more time to subside). The problem is that at the high temperatures that the core had reached at this stage, water molecules can “disassociate” into oxygen and hydrogen – an explosive mixture. And it did explode, outside the third containment, damaging the reactor building around. It was that sort of explosion, but inside the pressure vessel (because it was badly designed and not managed properly by the operators) that lead to the explosion of Chernobyl. This was never a risk at Fukushima. The problem of hydrogen-oxygen formation is one of the biggies when you design a power plant (if you are not Soviet, that is), so the reactor is build and operated in a way it cannot happen inside the containment. It happened outside, which was not intended but a possible scenario and OK, because it did not pose a risk for the containment.

So the pressure was under control, as steam was vented. Now, if you keep boiling your pot, the problem is that the water level will keep falling and falling. The core is covered by several meters of water in order to allow for some time to pass (hours, days) before it gets exposed. Once the rods start to be exposed at the top, the exposed parts will reach the critical temperature of 2200 °C after about 45 minutes. This is when the first containment, the Zircaloy tube, would fail.

And this started to happen. The cooling could not be restored before there was some (very limited, but still) damage to the casing of some of the fuel. The nuclear material itself was still intact, but the surrounding Zircaloy shell had started melting. What happened now is that some of the byproducts of the uranium decay – radioactive Cesium and Iodine – started to mix with the steam. The big problem, uranium, was still under control, because the uranium oxide rods were good until 3000 °C. It is confirmed that a very small amount of Cesium and Iodine was measured in the steam that was released into the atmosphere.

It seems this was the “go signal” for a major plan B. The small amounts of Cesium that were measured told the operators that the first containment on one of the rods somewhere was about to give. The Plan A had been to restore one of the regular cooling systems to the core. Why that failed is unclear. One plausible explanation is that the tsunami also took away / polluted all the clean water needed for the regular cooling systems.

The water used in the cooling system is very clean, demineralized (like distilled) water. The reason to use pure water is the above mentioned activation by the neutrons from the Uranium: Pure water does not get activated much, so stays practically radioactive-free. Dirt or salt in the water will absorb the neutrons quicker, becoming more radioactive. This has no effect whatsoever on the core – it does not care what it is cooled by. But it makes life more difficult for the operators and mechanics when they have to deal with activated (i.e. slightly radioactive) water.

But Plan A had failed – cooling systems down or additional clean water unavailable – so Plan B came into effect. This is what it looks like happened:

In order to prevent a core meltdown, the operators started to use sea water to cool the core. I am not quite sure if they flooded our pressure cooker with it (the second containment), or if they flooded the third containment, immersing the pressure cooker. But that is not relevant for us.

The point is that the nuclear fuel has now been cooled down. Because the chain reaction has been stopped a long time ago, there is only very little residual heat being produced now. The large amount of cooling water that has been used is sufficient to take up that heat. Because it is a lot of water, the core does not produce sufficient heat any more to produce any significant pressure. Also, boric acid has been added to the seawater. Boric acid is “liquid control rod”. Whatever decay is still going on, the Boron will capture the neutrons and further speed up the cooling down of the core.

The plant came close to a core meltdown. Here is the worst-case scenario that was avoided: If the seawater could not have been used for treatment, the operators would have continued to vent the water steam to avoid pressure buildup. The third containment would then have been completely sealed to allow the core meltdown to happen without releasing radioactive material. After the meltdown, there would have been a waiting period for the intermediate radioactive materials to decay inside the reactor, and all radioactive particles to settle on a surface inside the containment. The cooling system would have been restored eventually, and the molten core cooled to a manageable temperature. The containment would have been cleaned up on the inside. Then a messy job of removing the molten core from the containment would have begun, packing the (now solid again) fuel bit by bit into transportation containers to be shipped to processing plants. Depending on the damage, the block of the plant would then either be repaired or dismantled.

Now, where does that leave us? My assessment:
  • * The plant is safe now and will stay safe.
    * Japan is looking at an INES Level 4 Accident: Nuclear accident with local consequences. That is bad for the company that owns the plant, but not for anyone else.
    * Some radiation was released when the pressure vessel was vented. All radioactive isotopes from the activated steam have gone (decayed). A very small amount of Cesium was released, as well as Iodine. If you were sitting on top of the plants’ chimney when they were venting, you should probably give up smoking to return to your former life expectancy. The Cesium and Iodine isotopes were carried out to the sea and will never be seen again.
    * There was some limited damage to the first containment. That means that some amounts of radioactive Cesium and Iodine will also be released into the cooling water, but no Uranium or other nasty stuff (the Uranium oxide does not “dissolve” in the water). There are facilities for treating the cooling water inside the third containment. The radioactive Cesium and Iodine will be removed there and eventually stored as radioactive waste in terminal storage.
    * The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities.
    * The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water
    * The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change.
    * Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years.
    * The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse)
    * (Updated) I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. 11 of Japan’s 55 nuclear reactors in different plants were shut down and will have to be inspected, directly reducing the nation’s nuclear power generating capacity by 20%, with nuclear power accounting for about 30% of the national total power generation capacity. I have not looked into possible consequences for other nuclear plants not directly affected. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. I am not familiar with Japan’s energy supply chain for oil, gas and coal, and what damage the harbors, refinery, storage and transportation networks have suffered, as well as damage to the national distribution grid. All of that will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to power shortages during peak demand and reconstruction efforts, in Japan.
    * This all is only part of a much bigger picture. Emergency response has to deal with shelter, drinking water, food and medical care, transportation and communication infrastructure, as well as electricity supply. In a world of lean supply chains, we are looking at some major challenges in all of these areas.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:34 pm
by null0010
NOTICE: I did not write this article, I've lifted it from the following source:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=3396817
somethingawful forums wrote:This thread is intended to move the various discussions about nuclear power, the safety of Japan's nuclear reactors, and related issues out of the general thread about the disaster in Japan. Nuclear talk has overwhelmed the discussion in that thread, along with people coming in asking for information about whether it's going to be another Chernobyl.

But first, a FAQ:


What in the hell is going on here?

In the aftermath of the recent earthquake and tsunami in Japan, two nuclear power stations on the east coast of Japan have been experiencing problems. They are the Fukushima Daiichi ("daiichi" means "number one") and Fukushima Daini ("number two") sites, operated by the Tokyo Electric Power Company (or TEPCO). Site one has six reactors, and site two has four. The problematic reactors have been #1 and #3 at site one, which are the oldest of the ten.

In short, the earthquake combined with the tsunami have impaired the cooling systems at these reactors, which has made it difficult for TEPCO to shut them down completely. Reactor #1 is now considered safe after crew flooded the reactor with sea water. Reactor #3 is undergoing this process as this is being written (6:00PM CST/11:00PM GST on March 13th).

Can this cause a nuclear explosion?

No. It is physically impossible for a nuclear power station to explode like a nuclear weapon.

Nuclear bombs work by causing a supercritical fission reaction in a very small space in an unbelievably small amount of time. They do this by using precisely-designed explosive charges to combine two subcritical masses of nuclear material so quickly that they bypass the critical stage and go directly to supercritical, and with enough force that the resulting supercritical mass cannot melt or blow itself apart before all of the material is fissioned.

Current nuclear power plants are designed around subcritical masses of radioactive material, which are manipulated into achieving sustained fission through the use of neutron moderators. The heat from this fission is used to convert water to steam, which drives electric generator turbines. (This is a drastic simplification.) They are not capable of achieving supercritical levels; the nuclear fuel would melt before this could occur, and a supercritical reaction is required for an explosion to occur.

Making a nuclear bomb is very difficult, and it is completely impossible for a nuclear reactor to accidentally become a bomb. Secondary systems, like cooling or turbines, can explode due to pressure and stress problems, but these are not nuclear explosions.

Is this a meltdown?

Technically, yes, but not in the way that most people think.

The term "meltdown" is not used within the nuclear industry, because it is insufficiently specific. The popular image of a meltdown is when a nuclear reactor's fuel core goes out of control and melts its way out of the containment facility. This has not happened and is unlikely to happen.

What has happened in reactor #1 and #3 is a "partial fuel melt". This means that the fuel core has suffered damage from heat but is still largely intact. No fuel has escaped containment.

How did this happen? Aren't there safety systems?

When the earthquakes in Japan occurred on March 11th, all ten reactor cores "scrammed", which means that their control rods were inserted automatically. This shut down the active fission process, and the cores have remained shut down since then.

The problem is that even a scrammed reactor core generates "decay heat", which requires cooling. When the tsunami arrived shortly after the earthquake, it damaged the external power generators that the sites used to power their cooling systems. This meant that while the cores were shut down, they were still boiling off the water used as coolant.

This caused two further problems. First, the steam caused pressure to build up within the containment vessel. Second, once the water level subsided, parts of the fuel rods were exposed to air, causing the heat to build up more quickly, leading to core damage from the heat.

What are they doing about it?

From the very beginning, TEPCO has had the option to flood the reactor chambers with sea water, which would end the problems immediately. Unfortunately, this also destroys the reactors permanently. Doing so would not only cost TEPCO (and Japanese taxpayers) billions of dollars, but it would make that reactor unavailable for generating electricity during a nationwide disaster. The sea water method is a "last resort" in this sense, but it has always been an option.

To avoid this, TEPCO first took steps to bring the cooling systems back online and to reduce the pressure on the inside of the containment vessel. This involved bringing in external portable generators, repairing damaged systems, and venting steam and gases from inside the containment vessel. These methods worked for reactor #2 at site one; reactors four through six were shut down before for inspection before the earthquake hit.

In the end, TEPCO decided to avoid further risk and flooded reactor #1 with sea water. It is now considered safely under control. Reactor #3 is undergoing this process.

Is a "China Syndrome" meltdown possible?

No, any fuel melt situation at Fukushima will be limited, because the fuel is physically incapable of having a runaway fission reaction. This is due to their light water reactor design.

In a light water reactor, water is used as both a coolant for the fuel core and as a "neutron moderator". What a neutron moderator does is very technical (you can watch a lecture which includes this information here), but in short, when the neutron moderator is removed, what happens to the fuel core depends on its design.

An LWR has a design with a "negative void coefficient". This means that if the neutron moderator is removed, the fission reactor will slow and eventually stop. Some other reactor designs (such as the one at Chernobyl) have a "positive void coefficient", which means that if the moderator is removed, the fission reaction speeds up and becomes self-sustaning.

An LWR design limits the damage caused by a meltdown, because if all of the coolant is boiled away, the fission reaction will not keep going, because the coolant is also the moderator. The core will then only generate decay heat, which while dangerous and strong enough to melt the core, is not nearly as dangerous as an active fission reaction.

The containment vessel at Fukushima should be strong enough to resist breaching even during a decay heat meltdown. The amount of energy that could be produced by decay heat is easily calculated, and it is possible to design a container that will resist it. If it is not, and the core melts its way through the bottom of the vessel, it will end up in a large concrete barrier below the reactor. It is nearly impossible that a fuel melt caused by decay heat would penetrate this barrier. A containment vessel failure like this would result in a massive cleanup job but no leakage of nuclear material into the outside environment.

This is all moot, however, as flooding the reactor with sea water will prevent a fuel melt from progressing. TEPCO has already done this to reactor #1, and is in the process of doing it to #3. If any of the other reactors begin misbehaving, the sea water option will be available for those as well.

What was this about an explosion?

One of the byproducts of reactors like the ones at Fukushima is hydrogen. Normally this gas is vented and burned slowly. Due to the nature of the accident, the vented hydrogen gas was not properly burned as it was released. This led to a build up of hydrogen gas inside the reactor #1 building, but outside the containment vessel.

This gas ignited, causing the top of the largely cosmetic external shell to be blown off. This shell was made of sheet metal on a steel frame and did not require a great deal of force to be destroyed. The reactor itself was not damaged in this explosion, and there were only four minor injuries. This was a conventional chemical reaction and not a nuclear explosion.

You see what happened in this photo. Note that other than losing the sheet metal covering on the top, the reactor building is intact. No containment breach has occurred.

Image

At about 2:30AM GMT on March 14th, a similar explosion occurred at the reactor #3 building. This explosion was not unexpected, as TEPCO had warned that one might occur. The damage is still being assessed but it has been announced that the containment vessel was not breached.

Is there radiation leakage?

The radiation levels outside the plant are higher than usual due to the release of radioactive steam. These levels will go down and return to their normal levels, as no fuel has escaped containment.

Here is a a chart showing the effects of various radiation poisoning levels. For perspective, note that this chart starts at 1 Gy, equivalent to 1 Sv; the radiation outside the problematic Fukushima reactors is being measured in micro-Svs per hour. The highest reported levels outside the Fukushima reactors has been around 1000 to 1500 micro-Svs per hour. This means that one would have to stay in this area for four to six weeks, 24 hours a day, without protection in order to experience the lowest level of radiation poisoning, which while unpleasant is not normally fatal. And this level will not stay where it is.

Also note the chart of normal radiation exposure levels from things like medical x-rays and airline flights.

There have also been very minor releases of radioactive reactor byproducts like cesium along with the steam. This material is less radioactive than the typical output of coal power plants. It is significant mainly as an indicator of the state of the reactor core.

I read that there's a plume of radioactive material heading across the Pacific.

In its current state, the steam blowing east from Japan across the pacific is less dangerous than living in Denver for a year. If it makes it across the ocean, it will be almost undetectable by the time it arrives.

What's this about fuel rods being exposed to the air?

When the coolant levels inside the reactor get low enough, the tops of the fuel rods will be exposed to the air inside the containment vessel. They have not been exposed to the external atmosphere and the containment vessels are all intact.

Can this end up like Chernobyl?

No, it cannot. for several reasons.
  • - Chernobyl was designed with a positive void coefficient. This means that when the neutron moderator was removed, the reaction got stronger. The Fukushima reactors have a negative void coefficient, which means that if you remove the neutron moderator, the reaction slows and eventually stops.

    - Chernobyl's core was built on top of a tank of water. This was meant to cool the core if it melted through the containment vessel. Instead, it caused a tremendous steam explosion which tore the facility apart. The Fukushima reactors do not have this and will therefore not explode like that, even if the core melts through the containment vessel.

    - Chernobyl used graphite as a neutron moderator. Graphite is flammable, and when the reactor exploded, the radioactive graphite burned and ended up in the atmosphere. The Fukushima reactors use water as a neutron moderator, which is obviously not flammable.
The news said this was the worst nuclear power accident since Chernobyl, though.

It's the only nuclear power plant accident of its type since Chernobyl. It's easy to be the worst in a sample size of one.

Is this like Three Mile Island?

There are similarities. The final effect on the world is likely to be similar: no deaths, minimal external contamination, and a tremendous PR disaster for the nuclear industry due to bad reporting by the media.

How can I keep up with developments?

The western media has been very bad about reporting this event, due to a combination of sensationalist reporting, ignorance, and the use of inexact or unexplained terminology.

One of the safe sources of information is the TEPCO site, which has been posting press releases on a regular basis. Unfortunately, this site is often unresponsive due to the immense traffic it is receiving.

The important thing to remember is that most of the "experts" appearing on the news are engaging in speculation. Very few of them are restricting themselves to what they can be sure about, and those that are have often been misrepresented.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:36 pm
by Grendel
Nice find, good read.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:16 pm
by dissent
Grendel wrote:Nice find, good read.
x2. well laid out discussion.

please send this to the bubbleheads reporting on all of our media outlets. Thanks.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:39 pm
by woodchip
From Nulls high verbage post:

"How can I keep up with developments?
The western media has been very bad about reporting this event, due to a combination of sensationalist reporting, ignorance, and the use of inexact or unexplained terminology.
One of the safe sources of information is the TEPCO site, which has been posting press releases on a regular basis. Unfortunately, this site is often unresponsive due to the immense traffic it is receiving."

Safe source of info? The above is precisely why all of Nulls post has lost any credibility:

"Tepco itself has been implicated in a series of cover-ups down the years.
In 2002, the chairman and four other executives resigned, suspected of having falsified safety records at Tepco power stations.
Further examples of falsification were identified in 2006 and 2007."

What makes you think TEPCO is not doing a CYA on you now.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:46 pm
by Ferno
oh no, it's a conspiracy...

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:18 pm
by Krom
The biggest thing to be concerned about with the nuclear plant problems and the quake/tsunami is the economic impact of it all, Japan's economy has already been in recession for decades and recovery is going to be difficult with the very low birth rate they have. Now on top of a huge quake/tsunami cleanup and the loss of lives, they will have to spend billions to recover the reactors and energy is going to be more expensive too. The environmental impact is trivial to nonexistent and won't get any worse.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:26 pm
by Spidey
Hummm…let me see if I can go locate my “give a damn” about Japan’s economy.

They sure as hell didn’t give a damn about ours while they were dumping chips…and the countless other things I could mention…

Sympathy for quake victims…hell yes…sympathy for their economy…hell no.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:34 pm
by Krom
You can look at Japan's economy as basically working the same as ours, just sooner. So what happens to the Japanese economy, eventually happens to the US economy, which makes it worthwhile to keep track of.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:45 pm
by Spidey
Actually I would have to say that it’s the other way around…

Just take the penning of anime for example…first they got the jobs from the American producers…now the Korean’s are doing most of the anime penning.

They produced the “cheap” goods for a while…now it’s the Chinese.

What goes around…comes around. Couldn’t happen to a nicer country.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:42 pm
by Burlyman
Ferno wrote:oh no, it's a conspiracy...
If I ask you to explain why a reported incident isn't false after I show you evidence that it is, you better have a very good explanation other than "that's just a conspiracy theory."

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:45 pm
by Foil
Burlyman wrote:If I ask you to explain why a reported incident isn't false after I show you evidence that it is...
What evidence? Where?

I don't doubt that TEPCO is trying to put a positive spin on things. However, the evidence thus far supports their claims about the relatively low radiation level.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:56 am
by Burlyman
It's just a general statement.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:51 pm
by Tunnelcat
Did anyone know this little problem? Apparently the SPENT fuel is stored in ponds ABOVE the reactors in those square buildings and that when the coolant pumps failed, so did water circulation inside those water ponds too. Now the spent fuel is heating up and the water is apparently boiling, putting out radioactive steam. It's also boiling off and they're having trouble keeping the spent fuel covered with water.

But what's more worrisome is that during one of those recent explosions, the water pond cracked and is leaking. If that spent fuel is uncovered for too long, that too will melt down and start to burn, putting out a very toxic, highly radioactive cloud. So when we're seeing those explosions, more insidious damage is being done, because there is only liquid water covering the top of the spent fuel. It's only surrounded by those thin steel sheet metal walls and roof, no thick reinforced concrete or steel shell. It looks like the hot reactors are the least of the concerns.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world ... clear.html

http://www.dcbureau.org/201103141303/Na ... shima.html

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:58 pm
by Ferno
tunnelcat wrote:Did anyone know this little problem? Apparently the SPENT fuel is stored in ponds ABOVE the reactors in those square buildings and that when the coolant pumps failed, so did water circulation inside those water ponds too. Now the spent fuel is heating up and the water is apparently boiling, putting out radioactive steam. It's also boiling off and they're having trouble keeping the spent fuel covered with water.

But what's more worrisome is that during one of those recent explosions, the water pond cracked and is leaking. If that spent fuel is uncovered for too long, that too will melt down and start to burn, putting out a very toxic, highly radioactive cloud. So when we're seeing those explosions, more insidious damage is being done, because there is only liquid water covering the top of the spent fuel. It's only surrounded by those thin steel sheet metal walls and roof, no thick reinforced concrete or steel shell. It looks like the hot reactors are the least of the concerns.
I guess you didn't read what null posted...

------
If I ask you to explain why a reported incident isn't false after I show you evidence that it is, you better have a very good explanation other than "that's just a conspiracy theory."
let me get this straight: you're asking me to explain why an incident is true when you show me evidence that it's true? Have you been taking lessons on how to speak english from skwisgaar skwigelf?

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:01 pm
by snoopy
I did think that I read through it all pretty thoroughly, and I missed the part about the spent rods being stored in ponds above the reactors.

The TEPCO site acknowledges possible damage to the ponds and "undergoing evaluation" of the effects.

I get that the fresh rods will melt in 45minutes of air exposure. I didn't see mention of how long it takes the rods to "mature" or whatever you want to call it, after they've been spent.

TC, I will say that the articles that you linked sound quite alarmist. I guess only time will tell exactly what all is happening there. I'm still convinced that nuclear power is the real future of sustainable energy (hopefully fusion, not fission).

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:30 pm
by Burlyman
Apparently, someone "owned" me, according to ferno. Not everyone is a competitor. I didn't even bother to read your reply, creep. :P "I hate you" is not proof that I don't know what I'm talking about. I suggest you send all your money to Japan and Hate-e since you disagree.... and now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:07 am
by dissent
tunnelcat wrote: Apparently the SPENT fuel is stored in ponds ABOVE the reactors in those square buildings ...
At first blush this sounds like a bone-headed idea; practical perhaps, but safety bone-headed. Nuclear safety is all about fuel maintenance and containment. If the complicated reactor system goes fubar, why would you want to have more fuel in the vicinity?

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:40 am
by Foil
Ferno wrote:
Burlyman wrote:If I ask you to explain why a reported incident isn't false after I show you evidence that it is...
...you're asking me to explain why an incident is true when you show me evidence that it's true?
I read Burly's statement as: "why a reported incident isn't false after I show you it is [false]", or ""why it is true after I show you it's false".

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:29 pm
by Tunnelcat
dissent wrote:
tunnelcat wrote: Apparently the SPENT fuel is stored in ponds ABOVE the reactors in those square buildings ...
At first blush this sounds like a bone-headed idea; practical perhaps, but safety bone-headed. Nuclear safety is all about fuel maintenance and containment. If the complicated reactor system goes fubar, why would you want to have more fuel in the vicinity?
It does sound a little bone-headed, but I'm guessing it was a convenience decision. Pull the spent fuel bundle up out of the reactor and just move the whole shebang over to the cooling pond with no muss or fuss and a minimum of dangerous handling.

But cripes! I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too! They can design for safety and convenience of operation, but not catastrophic failures. If that whole spent fuel mess gets uncovered for some reason, IT WILL BURN UNCONTAINED and release a cloud of cesium and strontium, and I think plutonium, very radioactive and long lasting isotopes (especially plutonium, with a half life of 24,000 years) that will hang around for a long, long time, getting into the local food chain. Here in the states the media is focusing on iodine, but that is a shorter lived isotope. It's the long life stuff that's going to cause problems for humans and no amount of iodine pills are going to help long term. Here's a scary read from Belarus:

http://www.belarusguide.com/chernobyl1/cyauh.html

One news show was talking about Mohamed Atta, the mastermind behind 911. He apparently wanted to originally hit a power plant in upstate New York with one of the planes and cause a nuclear catastrophe. But because he thought that all U.S. nuclear plants were protected by anti-aircraft missiles, he nixed the idea and switched to the World Trade Center as a target. But guess what? Our nuclear plants were NOT protected by missiles, and I don't think they are NOW! Thank God he didn't KNOW that because if they had succeeded in dumping an airliner into a cooling pond at that nuclear plant, all that spent fuel would have created the world's biggest, longest lasting dirty bomb in history and the death toll would have been far larger than it was.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:13 pm
by Spidey
Lies come in handy, I guess that one worked in our favor.

The entire Atomic Power Industry is based on a foundation of lies…

1. The power was going to be cheap.
2. The reactors are safe.
3. The spent fuel rod problem was going to be solved, not long after the first reactors go online.

Go ask the average person where the spent fuel rods are…and I bet the answer you get will be…“Buried in a reinforced concrete bunker, somewhere out in the middle of nowhere”. (where they should to be)

Out of sight…out of mind.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:55 pm
by Burlyman
Foil wrote:
Ferno wrote:
Burlyman wrote:If I ask you to explain why a reported incident isn't false after I show you evidence that it is...
...you're asking me to explain why an incident is true when you show me evidence that it's true?
I read Burly's statement as: "why a reported incident isn't false after I show you it is [false]", or ""why it is true after I show you it's false".
which was it?
ferno's lysdexia might be contagious. ^_~

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:24 pm
by woodchip
tunnelcat wrote:

It does sound a little bone-headed, but I'm guessing it was a convenience decision. Pull the spent fuel bundle up out of the reactor and just move the whole shebang over to the cooling pond with no muss or fuss and a minimum of dangerous handling..
No muss, no fuss = cheap way of doing it. How much do you think it would cost extra to properly put the spent fuel in containers and ship it someplace safe to bury it. Note, no such place as truly safe unless you could safely get it into space

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:54 pm
by snoopy
Wood, the thing is, you have to put it somewhere where it can cool for a couple years before you go and bury it.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:18 am
by Burlyman
You guys can't get on thunderbunny's case anymore when you let everyone else start threads with just a link and a huge wall of text and say none of your own words or why people should even be interested.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:09 pm
by null0010
Burlyman wrote:You guys can't get on thunderbunny's case anymore when you let everyone else start threads with just a link and a huge wall of text and say none of your own words or why people should even be interested.
I cite my sources.

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:49 pm
by Nightshade
I cite my sources.
And I don't?

Re: For those worried about the situation in Japan:

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:42 am
by Burlyman
See what I mean? ^_~