DescentBB

I stole this topic from a CNN blog, but I wanted to see what people here's response would be.

In Katrina, there was looting. Hati, Looting. In fact, most natural disasters are followed with people taking what they preceive to no longer belong to anyone. But there just arn't reports about this comming from Japan.

Why? Is it the culture? Is the media just "keeping these stories from us?"

If its the former, what is it about the culture?

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I don't think it's a lack of greed. The Japanese have their criminals and criminal syndicates. I think that Japanese society has a greater respect for order than American society does.

Yeah there's looting in Japan, they are just more efficient at it and probably doing it on a large scale

No doubt it happens, the difference is Japan is half a world away and we don't hear about it.

Not all is pristine:

"TOKYO -- The earthquake and tsunami that pulverized coastal Japan crippled a bank's security mechanisms and left a vault wide open. That allowed someone to walk off with $500,000."

Wasn't a Katrina victim caught shooting at his rescuers? I'm not going to verify that, but I have yet to hear something that stupid out of Japan.

Japan has a strict weapons ban, something like that would be incredibly unlikely over there.

Isaac wrote:Wasn't a Katrina victim caught shooting at his rescuers? I'm not going to verify that, but I have yet to hear something that stupid out of Japan.

What is stupid is not knowing the circumstances around the person shooting at the rescuers. Looters were everywhere. did the rescuers make themselves known? Was it at night? Was the shooter out of water and food for a number of days and thus was not thinking clearly. In short, learn the particulars before making a blanket statement.

No Looting. What a joke.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 44156.html

woodchip wrote:What is stupid is not knowing the circumstances around the person shooting at the rescuers.

I can post a rumor as long as I'm clear that it's a rumor. You should know a lot about that...

I know why. But if I said it I'd be crucified.

SilverFJ wrote:I know why. But if I said it I'd be crucified.

Not by me. I've seen U.S. crime statistics.... But yeah, I'm not touching that either.

An example of the contrast:

Jerusalem jihad bombing occurred as Israelis were discussing sending medical teams to Japan

And that sums up the difference between the civilized man and the savage -- i.e., Israelis and "Palestinians." More on this story. "Jerusalem bus bombing injures 30," from Reuters, March 23:

A bomb has exploded near a bus stop in a Jewish neighbourhood of Jerusalem, injuring at least 30 people, police and medics said.

Police described the explosion as a terrorist attack, Israel's term for a Palestinian strike. It was the first such bombing in Jerusalem in seven years....

"[We believe] the device weighed about one to two kilograms. It exploded in a small suitcase on the sidewalk next to the bus stop," internal security minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch told Israel's Channel 2 television.

A paramedic said he had been meeting colleagues in an office nearby to discuss the dispatch of a medical team to disaster-hit Japan when they heard a loud explosion....

Contrast between what and what, now?

I'm sure this goes a long way in explaining why we haven't seen any looting in Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtR2m20C2YM

If i were anywhere near there i'd be running for my life away from the radiation.
not that it would do any good, but at the time it'd probably seem like the right idea.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'm sure this goes a long way in explaining why we haven't seen any looting in Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtR2m20C2YM

Very good!

This is easy.... there aren't any black people in Japan. Duh!

Oops, I meant African Americans.

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ThunderBunny wrote:An example of the contrast:

that's not an example. that's a thread hijack.

Bet51987 wrote:

ccb056 wrote:This is easy.... there aren't any ******** in Japan. Duh!

That was a dumb statement. I like it when you don't post much.

Bee

I think my opinion is a bit more valid than your's in this case. I lived in New Orleans for 8 years, I think I have some perspective on what happens there.

You're treading on some VERY weak ground, ccb.

Got anything more than anecdotal 'personal experience' to back up the implication you're making?

Foil wrote:You're treading on some VERY weak ground, ccb.

Got anything more than anecdotal 'personal experience' to back up the implication you're making?

Well in all fairness to CCB, we have to look at a town that is not predominately black suffering a similar condition as Japan. The one occurrence would be Anchorage Alaska in 1964 which suffered a 9.2 level earthquake. I tried to find out about looting there without much success. So unless someone can find out about widespread looting in Anchorage, then CCB has a valid point. We can also look at the Los Angeles quake in '94 and see little looting there though this reason is given:

"One obvious reason for the overwhelmingly lawful citizen reaction to the quake was the rapid and aggressive governmental response. In addition to those directly dealing with the physical trauma and property damage, large contingents of police, sheriff's deputies, highway patrol and National Guard were quickly deployed and kept on duty until reasonable control was established."

Perhaps the difference with New Orleans and Japan is the level of response by the authorities. I suspect the level of flooding may have something to do with it but then Japan had flooding also. So left to their own devices, with a lack of intervention by the authorities, it appears the Afro Americans had a desire to take what is not theirs and the Japanese had more respect for other peoples property.

Another area to examine would be the economic factors surrounding the New Orleans and Japanese disasters. I'll let this board flesh out any validity as to if being poor is a excuse to robbery during a disaster.

Just wow is all I can say for that post. You don't think white people were looting in New Orleans? Oh that's right afro amercians loot, whites find. Human nature is human nature. Every one here hasn't even read the link I put up or chose to ignore it. so here it is again. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 44156.html

woodchip wrote:So unless someone can find out about widespread looting in Anchorage, then CCB has a valid point.

No, he doesn't.

ccb basically said, "I live in New Orleans, and I know about black people looting. Thus the obvious reason looting isn't prevalent in Japan is the lack of black people." That statement fails on a number of levels, including logic.

[Plus, as Heretic pointed out, there has been looting in Japan.]

See, "crucified".

lol

woodchip wrote: Perhaps the difference with New Orleans and Japan is the level of response by the authorities. I suspect the level of flooding may have something to do with it but then Japan had flooding also. So left to their own devices, with a lack of intervention by the authorities, it appears the Afro Americans had a desire to take what is not theirs and the Japanese had more respect for other peoples property.

Another area to examine would be the economic factors surrounding the New Orleans and Japanese disasters. I'll let this board flesh out any validity as to if being poor is a excuse to robbery during a disaster.

well now.. that's something that kind of surprises me. I knew you were pretty ignorant about a lot of things, but you're also racist too!

and don't try to deny you're not.

I'll let this board flesh out any validity as to if being poor is a excuse to robbery during a disaster.

is that so. then I guess people in power and people who are wealthy have no reason to rob (IE embezzle). Oh wait a second...

Ferno wrote:

woodchip wrote: Perhaps the difference with New Orleans and Japan is the level of response by the authorities. I suspect the level of flooding may have something to do with it but then Japan had flooding also. So left to their own devices, with a lack of intervention by the authorities, it appears the Afro Americans had a desire to take what is not theirs and the Japanese had more respect for other peoples property.

Another area to examine would be the economic factors surrounding the New Orleans and Japanese disasters. I'll let this board flesh out any validity as to if being poor is a excuse to robbery during a disaster.

well now.. that's something that kind of surprises me. I knew you were pretty ignorant about a lot of things, but you're also racist too!

and don't try to deny you're not.

So by giving examples of disasters, racial make-up and degree of looting now is a determinate of being racist? Somehow I thought you were a bit more intelligent than what I know see you portraying yourself.

I'll let this board flesh out any validity as to if being poor is a excuse to robbery during a disaster.

Ferno wrote:is that so. then I guess people in power and people who are wealthy have no reason to rob (IE embezzle). Oh wait a second...

Thanks for letting us know that embezzlement is on par with looting during a disaster.

woodchip wrote:

Ferno wrote:I knew you were pretty ignorant about a lot of things, but you're also racist too!

and don't try to deny you're not.

So by giving examples of disasters, racial make-up and degree of looting now is a determinate of being racist? Somehow I thought you were a bit more intelligent than what I know see you portraying yourself.

Guys, enough personal shots.</warning>

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Woodchip, you said (paraphrased), "without authority, blacks apparently want to steal, but Japanese respect property."

That's a huge difference to attribute to ethnicity. Do you have something to back that up, besides the New Orleans / Japan comparison which you already admitted was weak?

woodchip wrote:Thanks for letting us know that embezzlement is on par with looting during a disaster.

They're both theft. What's your point?

Foil wrote:
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Woodchip, you said (paraphrased), "without authority, blacks apparently want to steal, but Japanese respect property."

That's a huge difference to attribute to ethnicity. Do you have something to back that up, besides the New Orleans / Japan comparison which you already admitted was weak?.

Did you forget to read about the Anchorage earthquake example and small amount of looting there?

woodchip wrote:Thanks for letting us know that embezzlement is on par with looting during a disaster.

Foil wrote: They're both theft. What's your point?

Yes both are theft, but theft during a time of disaster is a different mindset as you are taking items from people who already deprived because of the disaster. It is opportunistic and in a number of case involves a mob mentality. Embezzlement is usually by someone who has not lost out due to a disaster, and has coldy calculated with foresight what they are doing. I guess by your logic stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family is on par with Madof's pyramid scheme. Both are theft.

woodchip wrote:Did you forget to read about the Anchorage earthquake example and small amount of looting there?

I read it. Anchorage, Japan... two earthquakes, not a lot of looting in either one.

You and ccb still have yet to show any good comparison between the Japan and New Orleans disasters to support the claim that black folk loot more than Japanese folk.

woodchip wrote:

Foil wrote:They're [looting & embezzlement] both theft. What's your point?

Yes both are theft, but theft during a time of disaster is a different mindset...

I guess by your logic stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family is on par with Madof's [sic] pyramid scheme.

I never said they were on par with each other; Ferno was the one who brought it up. I'm just trying to figure out what you guys are getting at.

The real difference is culture and upbringing- not color of the skin. That many blacks in New Orleans are brought up badly is the only reason they acted the way they did. I'm sure there were a few whites in the mix too. The "culture" is the issue- and it's bad in many areas of the world- it just happens it is much better in Japan and Anchorage.

Okay, here are the statistics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

and this one addresses Theft more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_c ... ted_States
in this one it cites that in America Blacks steal more than Asians by 10%.

Gunna let you read them for yourselves and not give an opinion.

SilverFJ wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_c ... ted_States

As that article makes pretty clear, there is some correlation between race and crime, but the causal idea is still very much up for debate.

Again, no one has given anything to support the specific claims about looting because of ethnicity/race (i.e. ccb's "it's because they're not black").

BTW I updated my last message with another article. That one, however, is in America, and the cultures are by far different.
I personally believe that it was because of race, but I wouldn't state it as fact. For instance, the only two Asian guys I know are the most law-abiding, nicest people I know go to college, and volunteer at the YMCA, and the only two black guys I'm acquainted with have both impregnated women and left them, they don't work, no child support, receive SSI, spend whatever money they get on cigarettes and beer, and have been/if not still are involved in drug dealing. I live in the same little Montana town I grew up in, so this is my exposure to race. It's hard to think differently.

...and something tells me that this is headed for the NHB rather soon. I know the danger of this subject, but I'm not a lone-wolf here. And don't get me wrong, I'm no Nazi-KKK shithead either. I just call it like I see it. I know it's just as racist to champion the qualities of a race as to vilify another.

So by giving examples of disasters, racial make-up and degree of looting now is a determinate of being racist?

Trying to tie event X to color Y falls under that definition. Correlation does not imply causation.


my point with embezzling is this: it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. If you think you can get away with it, you will try and pull it off. Situations and locations are irrelevant.

and this goes right back to upbringing in different cultures.

I agree with Ferno. Criminals will be criminals, rich or poor. Rich criminals just seem to be better at it.