DescentBB

... beginning with a thud?
Relax: China’s First Aircraft Carrier is a Piece of Junk

If I lived long enough I might have to eat crow on this one, but I don't think that'll happen (live that long, that is.)
You still might want to consider those Mandarin lessons, however.

I wish we could see the same reported about their submarines. I don't know what they have but I recall they were reported to be a serious threat. Carriers are like hurricanes you watch them from a distance and have time to react, subs are like tornadoes, they just pop up suddenly and even the little ones can wreak major havoc.

If the Chinese can't make an aircraft carrier, which is essentially a really big boat with a flat bit on top, how do you think they would fare with something as advanced and complicated as a submarine?

null0010 wrote:If the Chinese can't make an aircraft carrier, which is essentially a really big boat with a flat bit on top, how do you think they would fare with something as advanced and complicated as a submarine?

Because they supposedly acquired the subs from the same place they acquired that unfinished aircraft carrier...Russia. Russia makes some scary submarines.
The big question is what generation subs are they and were they as unfinished as the aircraft carrier?

Hopefully Russia doesn't want to move China too far up the weapons evolutionary ladder but then again our own President Clinton was willing to give them a 20 year boost up the ladder in missile tech by way of Loral and Hughes in return for a couple million in campaign donations so who knows what Russia's motivation might be? Maybe they just want China to be dangerous enough...maybe they got something worth the risk out of the deal.

I just don't think one poor carrier sample makes them a lousy navy that's all.

They purchased this carrier from the Ukraine, not Russia. That's a lot less scary than the spectre of communism.

null0010 wrote:They purchased this carrier from the Ukraine, not Russia. That's a lot less scary than the spectre of communism.

Are you trying to imply the design of the carrier and sub - marines are some new design without origins from the same designers/builders that create for the then-Soviet / now-Russian navy? Those weapons have always been designed and built by the same people, the best the Soviets/Russians have at their disposal. Different flag same organization... different flag same inventory for sale. The Ukraine retained possession of a lot of military hardware that was once Soviet property when they gained independence from the Soviet Union which became Russia in the 90's. The construction by the Soviets on that particular piece probably stopped during the breakup and the Ukraine simply sold the Chinese on an as-is basis what there was of the incomplete Chinese order sitting there rusting in what was now their shipyard.

I think the Chinese and the Russians have quite a relationship in the area of buying/selling military technology. Regardless of what spectre's that does or doesn't stir in your imagination it isn't as easy to dismiss as you seem to want to do.
All we really know from that article is the Chinese have a shitty carrier they got from the Russians. We don't know a lot about the other toys they have and it is foolish to assume that carrier is typical of their capability!

I'm not that worried about the Chinese acquiring mid-80s Soviet naval technology. The US was pretty far ahead at that time (particularly with subs), and has made another 25 years worth of strides since.

Everyone seems to forget that 80s sub technology can still ruin your day with nukes...even with a straight up shot emp blast off the coast.

If we ever go to war with China, it won’t be technology we will have to worry about.

Hint: manpower & production capacity

I'm kind of wondering what sort of crappy Call-of-Duty-level plot would involve China launching a nuclear assault against the US.