DescentBB

Should Israel be considered an apartheid state?

of course it can be so considered. Try getting civil rights if you aren't Jewish and live there.

callmeslick wrote:of course it can be so considered. Try getting civil rights if you aren't Jewish and live there.

If you are correct what should be done about it?
And would you apply those same measures toward all states that meet the same benchmark you hold Israel to?

of course it can be so considered. Try getting civil rights if you aren't Jewish and live there.

Perhaps a teeny bit more in the way of civil rights than EVERY SINGLE country that surrounds the tiny sliver of land known as 'Israel?'

Arabs in Israel have far and above the most rights compared to Arabs in Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Most certainly more than in the Palestinian Authority managed land and only North Korea boasts a worse authoritarian leadership than Hamas- A TERRORIST group that rules Gaza.

More than zero don’t count for much.

Will Robinson wrote:

callmeslick wrote:of course it can be so considered. Try getting civil rights if you aren't Jewish and live there.

If you are correct what should be done about it?
And would you apply those same measures toward all states that meet the same benchmark you hold Israel to?

What could be done about it? Stop supporting Israel financially or militarily until they change. Creating a state for one religion only was and is a massive mistake on the part of the Western powers. For what it's worth, I have never supported the idea of a Two-State Solution. There should be one state, call it Palestine, Israel or Whatever. It should extend from Gaza to the borders with Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. One person, one vote and have the world enforce the transition, with all force necessary. Possibly, create a separate
religious enclave(sort of like a multicultural Vatican) out of Jerusalem.

Apply the same measures to any other state whice meets the same benchmark? Sure, find me one.

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:

callmeslick wrote:of course it can be so considered. Try getting civil rights if you aren't Jewish and live there.

If you are correct what should be done about it?
And would you apply those same measures toward all states that meet the same benchmark you hold Israel to?

...Apply the same measures to any other state whice meets the same benchmark? Sure, find me one.

Find you just one? How about Palestine?


A few more...
China,
Iran
North Korea
Afghanistan
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Cuba
Algeria
Bahrain
Egypt
Jordan
Libya
Oman
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Tunisia
United Arab Emirates
Yemen
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Vietnam
Cambodia
Burma (Myanmar)
Brunei
Zimbabwe
Swaziland
Sudan
Somalia
Rwanda
Mauritania
Guinea
Gabon
Chad
Congo, Republic of
Congo, Democratic Republic of
Angola
Kashmir (Pakistan)
South Ossetia
Tibet
Transnistria
Western Sahara (Morocco)



Try getting civil rights in those places if your aren't [insert ruling factions classification here].
Go ahead...call that vote.... and try getting 'the world' to cut them off financially and militarily...lol.

which of the named states denies citizenship and voting rights(for those who have elections) to anyone not of a single religion or ethnicity? Which of those states was set up by OUTSIDE POWERS to operate in that fashion(as opposed to an indiginous revolution/takeover,etc)?? Which of those states could not exist, functionally, without a financial patron? No, not one of those named nations falls into the situation which Israel presents. Sorry to ruin your premise.....

I could have sworn Isreal was created as a Parliamentary Democracy. So I don’t think you can make the claim that it was “set up that way”.

The real question is what reason is there for eveyone to have such a hard-on for Isreal, despite their slant toward their historic religion and equally historic ethno-centric thinking. It's not like they're strapping bombs on their women and killing inoccent people. Unless I'm very much mistaken we get along famously with them until some Muslim or liberal tries to interpose their concerns into the matter like they should be ours.

Whatever reason is given, there is nothing equitable about seeking peace in the region by forcing Isreal, rather than their neighbors to endure compromise, when Isreal has been the most (only?) steady ally the West has had over there (I believe).

Just because they're our strong ally doesn't mean that we shouldn't call them out for doing stupid stuff. And continuing to construct new settlements in Palestinian territories is incredibly stupid stuff.

callmeslick wrote:which of the named states...[snip] slicks changing the rules in the middle of the game...[/snip]. Sorry to ruin your premise.....

Lets review so the readers aren't confused by your re-write...

1 - original poster queries " is Israel an apartheid state"?
2 - Slick responds: "of course it can be so considered. Try getting civil rights if you aren't Jewish and live there"

No mention of other bull★■◆●, he just claims Israel has no civil rights for non-Jews...which is a lie but to humor him I try to find out if his outrage is principled enough to apply to all states who fit his allegation or not.
So what does he do? He moves the goalposts hoping to define a narrower piece of ground he can properly defend since his original claim is ridiculous. And now I'm the one who has offered a false premise?!? Lol!

there is nothing unique in the slightest about the level of Israels recognition of civil rights towards non-Jews. Compared to the rest of the world they rank well above most. Are they Canada? No. but they certainly are not Apartheid material!

Spidey wrote:I could have sworn Isreal was created as a Parliamentary Democracy. So I don’t think you can make the claim that it was “set up that way”.

How much of a parlimentary 'democracy' is it when you cannot be a citizen or thus vote unless you are of a certain, specific religion?

Will, I read 'apartheid' as meaning denial of citizenship privileges to all but a specified small group within a geographic area, with those disenfranchised treated badly. Can you look at the history, and conduct of the state of Israel and say they could not be so construed? By the way, I never said that I fully equate Israel with the conduct of South Africa back in the day, but much of the conduct of the state of Israel has been shameful, which might be what one would expect of a nation created by the actions of a guilty Western world giving in to the demands of the first wave of what could be called modern terrorists.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:when Isreal has been the most (only?) steady ally the West has had over there (I believe).

yet, we spend, literally billions of dollars weekly that goes to support their Arab neighbors, many of whom consider Israel to be an enemy. Strange foreign policy, ainna?