DescentBB

Generally, what does everyone here do to set up and tweak their Windows 7 OS based rigs for relatively trouble free gaming? Go in and prune tasks, services or anything else, or just leave things alone? How about shutting down A/V programs during gaming?

The only reason I'm asking is that if I try to play a game on the first boot of the day, I can play for about 5 minutes, then I'll start getting a warning something is going very wrong. My lighted USB keyboard will start intermittently flashing the LED's, which will increase in frequency if I keep on playing. If I don't bail out of the game when this happens and keep forging ahead, I'll eventually get a BSOD. Once I quit, the flashing will ramp down, stabilize out and quit. After this happened twice, I haven't wanted to BSOD again just to get the darn error log (I know, I should have written it down). I just do my workaround of rebooting before playing a game now. I have a clean install of Windows 7 Premium 64 bit and the computer is nearly a year old. No extra crapware from any computer maker and I'm only running Microsoft Security Essentials for A/V.

Now if I use the computer for a short while, like surf the net and check email, then do a reboot, I can play any game, any DX version, any age, without a hitch, every time. The CPU and GPU's are not getting hot. In fact, my CPU (a i7 960 3.2 GHz) doesn't even break a sweat under the most demanding game I own right now. I can get the EVGA 480 GPU up to 80 C though. The only add-on programs that are not OS-based tasks running in the background are the EVGA Precision program to run my GPU fan and the MSE A/V program. I have Core Temp, but I don't run that during a game. I'm beginning to wonder if there is a memory problem that goes away after the machine warms up a little. If it's some scheduled task that kicks off, I'd like to find out what it is and turn it the heck off. I definitely turned off scheduled defrags and Windows Auto Update, so they aren't starting in the background.

Chuck the fancy keyboard.

Alternatively, you could unplug and plug the keyboard before gaming.

Don't some motherboards do this to signal overheating and other problems?

Well, it doesn't cause problems after a reboot and I've checked for overheating and nothing is hot. I just played Dead Island for 3 hours straight and the CPU only got to 41 C and the GPU only got to 70 C. But I was playing after I'd rebooted today. No BSOD at all. But, If I'd started out from the first boot of the day, I would've had problems guaranteed. So why do things work after a reboot, even if the keyboard is the culprit?

I have a theory:

I bet that it's a variably controlled fan either on your CPU or your GPU. Since you BSOD, I'd guess the CPU first... but your mention of the EVGA program might indicate GPU.

I also bet that whatever game(s) you're playing suspends that automatic fan control by some means. (possibly a directx configuration setting buried somewhere?)

Thus, if the machine is cold when you suspend the control, the fans never kick in, and you face overheat problems. If the machine has had a chance to warm up and kick the fan up before you suspend the control, you're covered.

Here's how I'd test the theory:

1. If you're willing to BSOD again, drive the system all the way to BSOD, reboot and jump into your BIOS configuration as quickly as you can - the config should have temperature feedback somewhere (probably at least CPU and MB, maybe not GPU)- see if any of the temperatures are higher than what you're used to seeing.

2. Set the GPU to always run at max fan speed one night, the next day boot and jump right into a game, see if the problem presents itself.

3. Find a similar setting for the CPU and repeat the test.

Also: 70/80C seems high to me. I generally try to keep my stuff below 50 if I can.

Trying to jump into BIOS to check the CPU temps after a BSOD won't work, most high CPU temps will come down in a matter of seconds once the load is removed and the chips clock down to idle. The only way to know if it is too hot or not is to monitor it while it is actually doing something (second displays are very useful for this), just plug in a second display and run CPU and GPU monitors on it.

Also another very good way to check your CPU temps and general system stability is to fire up a copy of prime95 and run its torture test: http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/ It is an easy way to get near the maximum load/heat out of a CPU and the torture test is designed to look for errors, a system with power/heat problems wont last 5 minutes running this program where a good system can run it endlessly without any errors.

Testing a GPU is harder in general since various programs like furmark for testing them are usually throttled for exceeding the maximum power draw by the drivers. In general games that are tough on the GPU are probably a better bet than the torture programs because the right games will do a better job of spreading the load about on all aspects of the GPU and won't run into driver power draw throttles.

Here are a couple good programs for monitoring the CPU and GPU in a system:
HWMonitor: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
GPU-Z: http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

Also, snoopy might be on to something about the EVGA fan control program. Nvidia video cards have their own proper BIOS and driver level fan speed controls (which adjust the fan speed based on several factors including load, power and temperature). In most cases the fewer programs messing with fan controls the better. So I would uninstall that program and see if this persists. Also read the relevant manuals to the video card, the evga fan control program, and the motherboard and attempt to find out which one (if any) is blinking the keyboard lights and why.

From my understanding, the keyboard has the highest IRQ priority out of any input devices. I've had the lights on my keyboard go away when my computer momentarily freezes - so I tend to wonder if there is some other problem at work here.

What is the BSOD error?

EVGA Precision ( based on Riva Tuner, just like MSI Afterburner ) has a "Auto" fan control which releases the software control of the fan back to the card. i have yet to have a problem with my eVGA card and Precision

Issue with USB sleep mode ( power saver in device manager root hubs ). Disable them

Check motherboard mfg site for bios update involving S0/S3 issues


Also check to see if windows media players network sharing is enabled if so, disable it right after boot up “wmpnetwk.exe” especially if your keyboard software has a built-in feature to use it. Windows media player is launched during its query for network shared media

The GPU temp being 70C at full load is supposedly normal for a GTX 480. These cards tend to run HOT at full load, according to EVGA and Nvidia. Besides, it doesn't have any complaints running at those temps for hours after a reboot. I decided to let Core Temp run in the background and I checked it's log and I still didn't get CPU temps over 45C during gaming. All my fans are set to full anyway in the BIOS. As for EVGA's program, no problems with it after a reboot, so that doesn't seem to be a culprit. Other people on Nvidia's site have said that the program doesn't interfere with gaming either. I'd hate to uninstall it because this card's fans are LOUD even at 80% fan speed, and I don't want it running at that all the time. The auto fan speed control for this GPU is a godsend.

I do remember now after that first BSOD that it was maybe something about a paging fault Thenior, but I didn't write it down. I really hate to BSOD it again. One of the other precursor symptoms happened within Half Life 2 during the first BSOD months ago, was that as the system became progressively unstable, the movement controls started getting spurious random inputs within the game and the character moved all over the map uncontrollably. That's when I noticed the keyboard lights also flashing. Since then, that's been my warning.

I'm running along the lines that BUBBALOU is thinking, that some process is kicking off at first boot, but not after a second. I think that the keyboard lights flashing is only a symptom of the system becoming unstable, not the cause??? Maybe not???? The lights are there just to light the keys in the dark by the way, so they are drawing from the USB hub for power. They are nice for my older eyes when gaming in the dark. Hate to hit the wrong key and die because of it in the dark! I'm also NOT running the keyboard's software that came with it. It's an older model steelseries keyboard and the company had no update support for it either, so I purged the software from the system.

BUBBALOU, I checked the USB root hubs, and sure enough, they are all set to shut down if needed for power saving. I'll go through and change that for all of them, although I don't see how that would cause a BSOD. However, Windows Media Player Network Sharing might be a possibility. I don't use it or any other multimedia programs on this particular computer. It's only for gaming and some surfing. I'd like to keep the rig KISS simple for gaming. Can WMP be permanently shut off so as to not search the network in the background? I notice it's hard to permanently kill some of those Microsoft "convenience chores" I really don't need. I'll also check for any BIOS updates.

Winkey+R (run prompt), type : services.msc and press enter. In the Services window that appears, locate "Windows Media Player Network sharing Service" and double-click on it select stop, then in the spinner box select disable.

This is the quick way to see if this is the issue

By default when you set up your network and connect as 'home network' windows assumes you will be sharing and enables all off the network share features. Initially to get past this for home sharing you just hit cancel when prompted what items to share. Then you not be prompted to write down the sharing key.

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Hmmmmmmm. Went into services, found that service already disabled. Must have been done when I first set up things and those BSOD's have happened since then, that's not the problem. Went through all the root USB hubs and changed the power sleep settings though. I'll see what happens. I'll also still check for motherboard bios updates as well.

Anybody ever use Process Monitor or Process Explorer to troubleshoot?

Just one thing I forgot to add... for SGG change the usb port for the keyboard from the usb hub to the motherboard (not in the same paired port as the hub either) or if in Mobo move to another paired port

or if you have it connected to an usb 3.0 port move it to a 2.0 port

Pardon my stupidity BUBBALOU. What do you mean by SGG? Also, the keyboard is not plugged into any of my only two valuable usb 3.0 ports either. That would be a waste.

I also confirmed that the problem ONLY occurs on the first boot of the day. Any boot after that, even if the computer was shut down for several hours and fired back up, things work just fine as long as it happens during the same day. Overnight, forget it. Still thinking some task or process that runs once a day may be the culprit.

tunnelcat wrote:Pardon my stupidity BUBBALOU. What do you mean by SGG?

Sh!ts Grins & Giggles!

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1. Could you try booting into safe mode, and see if it happens then? (safe mode probably doesn't load enough drivers to run your games... unfortunately)
2. Maybe the solution is to leave the computer on 24/7?
3. Try viewing the "scheduled tasks" list in the control panel, see if that reveals anything?
4. I use process explorer, but I don't know of a way to "record" activity over time... a second monitor with process explorer up while you create the problem *might* show you something or might be completely useless.

BUBBALOU wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:Pardon my stupidity BUBBALOU. What do you mean by SGG?

Sh!ts Grins & Giggles!

[ Post made via iPhone ]

That's rich!

Yeah, I'll try moving the keyboard to another usb port.

Snoopy, the problem only happens when I try to play a game on first boot. No other subsequent boots on the same day will cause any problems. I certainly don't want to leave it on 24/7 and wear things out. I guess I could plow through all those scheduled tasks and see what's going on. Stupid Microsoft, and I know it's something of theirs running because this machine has only got a bare bones OS installed with no other manufacturer crapware to speak of. At least that I know of. $#^T!

Nothing to do with this topic…..

Why to heck are you rebooting that machine more than once a day…do yourself a favor and use sleep mode.

tunnelcat wrote:Snoopy, the problem only happens when I try to play a game on first boot. No other subsequent boots on the same day will cause any problems. I certainly don't want to leave it on 24/7 and wear things out. I guess I could plow through all those scheduled tasks and see what's going on. Stupid Microsoft, and I know it's something of theirs running because this machine has only got a bare bones OS installed with no other manufacturer crapware to speak of. At least that I know of. $#^T!

I gotcha. I figure that it has to do with something that was scheduled to run while the machine was off running while you're playing.

As for leaving the machine on all the time - it may actually be less stressful on components to be running all the time than to be cycled all of the time. When you cycle power, you expose the components to more heat stress. I believe that the spin-up time of hard drives also puts more stress on them than continuous operation.

To each his/her own. I guess I consider the power savings a much more compelling argument than the wear-and-tear one.

Spidey wrote:Nothing to do with this topic…..

Why to heck are you rebooting that machine more than once a day…do yourself a favor and use sleep mode.

Any Catch 22 to that? Won't any conflicting scheduled tasks still be a problem upon waking the machine?

I would have to say yes. I have never Like sleep mode it has always seemed buggy to me. With my builds I have always left it running and just have the monitor go off. Current build is 3 years old. (How long till I upgrade?) I just keep the dust clean out to keep it cool. I'm running Windows 7 64 bit Pro. Did my first bios upgrade in 2008 for this machine last one was when I upgraded to a quad core in 2009.

How long do you keep your builds?

tunnelcat wrote:

Spidey wrote:Nothing to do with this topic…..

Why to heck are you rebooting that machine more than once a day…do yourself a favor and use sleep mode.

Any Catch 22 to that? Won't any conflicting scheduled tasks still be a problem upon waking the machine?

Maybe, but my point has nothing to do with your problem…as I stated in my first sentence.

It just makes life easier.

On leaving the PC on 24/7 there are pro's and con's.

Yes, it's easier on the hardware, and it will actually last longer. My AMD2500+ machine I built about 8 years ago still runs just fine and I left it on all the time, I also had it on a 1500va APC voltage regulating unit so the power was also always clean.

However, newer gaming rigs consume more and more power. Your newer gaming rigs consume double or triple what they did 8 years ago, so leaving it run 24/7 might not be too friendly for your electric bill (depending on your electric rates and how many machines are running in your house... mine are high, so I tend to shut my stuff down at night now, but I leave it run during the day)


On your actual problem, I suppose it could be power related, an irregularity in your power supply as its warming up, but the software related ideas seem more likely in this instance - but I've seen stranger things.

Idle power might be better than you would think. Modern machines use a lot of clock and power gating to reduce the idle power consumption among other things, the trend in idle power has actually been downwards for the last few years.

Depends on your usage I guess. I've kindof migrated away pc support in the last 3-5 years, only keeping up as much as necessary (not enough free time with 3 kids to stay on it hardcore) I cut my electric bill by 1/3 when I started shutting off my machines.

I know leaving my crappy Dell on 24/7 would drive me insane if nothing else, as its fan produces an oh-so-annoying whine.