The Impossible dream?

[Gekko71]

I've been doing a lot of reading into LENR research (Low-energy Nuclear Reactions aka: Cold Fusion - a very poor name for a very interesting phenomenon).

There's an organisation called Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies Global Ltd. (PDGT) that is inviting independent scientific observers to test their apparatus which they claim can release (IIRC) 20 orders of magnitude of energy (as heat) per joule of energy input.

There are better informed physicists than I on the board. Is this the impossible dream, or are we really on the brink of near limitless clean energy?

[snoopy]

At first glance:

It's technically chemically assisted. I'm not sure about what that means and what implications that has. It sounds like the chemical part is a catalyist... I wonder if that's really true, and how often it would need to be replaced.

Also, I have no idea what goes into the reactor... there's some mention of "powder." I think the long-term ideal pipe dream for low energy fusion is having a system where you pour in water and a bit of start up energy and it outputs carbon and a whole ton of energy. It sounds like these thingies aren't quite there yet.... So the powder mention begs the question: how much energy and cost does it take to produce this powder?

[dissent]

This sounds like Rossi cold fusion. Some more here.

Count me as skeptical. Folk who make exceptional claims bear the burden of providing exceptional evidence. Fine. Let 'em test it. I'd be happy to see it succeed, but I won't yank out my electric company meter just yet.

[Gekko71]

This sounds like Rossi cold fusion. Some more here.

Count me as skeptical. Folk who make exceptional claims bear the burden of providing exceptional evidence. Fine. Let 'em test it. I'd be happy to see it succeed, but I won't yank out my electric company meter just yet.

Yeah I've read about the E-Cat and it sounds interesting, unfortunately though apparently Rossi has a reputation as being a bit of a con-man in the past so I think you;re right to be sceptical. Also he is being overly secretive in the way he allows people to test his machine, so methinks either he's not quite there yet, or he's possibly infringing on someone else's tech.

I do note that Rossi's company and Praxen Defkalion were co-partners in the development in this tech at one point in time, but have since gone their separate ways.

.... So the powder mention begs the question: how much energy and cost does it take to produce this powder?

Good point - the catalyst may be more expensive to manufacture than all the other elements of the system combined.

There was a 60 minutes special on this technology some time ago and at the time they spoke to an Israeli company that had come along way in developing this tech. Anyone familiar with any other developments in the area?

[sdfgeoff]

You are forgetting that the day they get greater than 100% efficiency on any system, then we'll die within a year or two at the very most. Let me explain:

At 25 degrees there is already a tonne of heat energy. Your 120% effecient machine then takes that heat, and heats it up, consuming very little in the process. Very soon it becomes self-fuelling, where the heat escalates. It only ends when the machine wears out or melts.
Even if it produces electricity at <100% ratio you still have that problem, because wires with a current get warm.

So even if it really is over 100% efficiency, which I doubt, it will not solve global warming....

[carmatic]

You are forgetting that the day they get greater than 100% efficiency on any system, then we'll die within a year or two at the very most. Let me explain:

At 25 degrees there is already a tonne of heat energy. Your 120% effecient machine then takes that heat, and heats it up, consuming very little in the process. Very soon it becomes self-fuelling, where the heat escalates. It only ends when the machine wears out or melts.
Even if it produces electricity at <100% ratio you still have that problem, because wires with a current get warm.

So even if it really is over 100% efficiency, which I doubt, it will not solve global warming....

the point is that because it is a nuclear reaction, it is converting mass to energy... there is no such thing as a '120%' efficient machine, only that it is a working machine which needs abit of energy input to work, which then somehow converts mass to energy and outputs more energy than was given to it

also: the earth receives much more energy from the sun in the form of light and heat, and reflects more of it, than can ever be conceivably produced by humans, no matter the technology... global warming is caused by stuff like methane and carbon dioxide absorbing solar radiation and warming the earth up

[flip]

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/pure-ge ... usion/3987