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China is out to make a point...

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:58 pm
by Nightshade
It can take what it likes and nobody better complain, otherwise:

http://www.tempo.com.ph/2012/prepare-fo ... 62KypJEvqR
CHINA WARNING

China told its citizens on Thursday they were not safe in the Philippines and its state media warned of war, as a month-long row over rival claims in the South China Sea threatened to spill out of control.

Chinese travel agencies announced they had suspended tours to the Philippines, under government orders, and the embassy in Manila advised its nationals already in the country to stay indoors ahead of planned protests.

“Avoid going out at all if possible, and if not, to avoid going out alone. If you come across any demonstrations, leave the area, do not stay to watch,” the embassy’s advisory said.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:34 pm
by flip
U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay was a major ship-repair, supply, and rest and recreation facility of the United States Navy located in Olongapo, Zambales, Philippines. It was the largest U.S. Navy installation in the Pacific[citation needed] and was the largest overseas military installation of the United States Armed Forces after Clark Air Base in Angeles City was closed in 1991. Following its closure in 1992, it was transformed into the Subic Bay Freeport Zone by the Philippine government.
It's the very first bestest move ever!!!!

EDIT: The one in 1992 I mean :)

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:00 pm
by flip
Image

Scarborough Shoal is on the left, Subic Bay is marked in red on the right. Very strategic move.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:12 pm
by flip
No matter how willing we are to discuss the issue, the current Philippine leadership is intent on pressing us into a corner where there is no other option left but the use of arms,” the China Daily said in an editorial.
This means: "We're taking that island regardless, but we'd rather not have to kill you to do it."

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:26 pm
by Nightshade
Obama will fall all over himself to capitulate, so the Philippines is S.O.L. (Something Outta Luck.)

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:23 pm
by Top Gun
Or maybe he just realizes that getting involved in a silly squabble over a little lump of rock wouldn't achieve anything.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:02 am
by flip
Well, that begs some questions then. Why is China prepared to war against the Phillipines for said worthless piece of rock? Or is your response a typical knee-jerk Thunderbunny response?

EDIT:
The risk of conflict in the South China Sea is significant. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines have competing territorial and jurisdictional claims, particularly over rights to exploit the region's possibly extensive reserves of oil and gas. Freedom of navigation in the region is also a contentious issue, especially between the United States and China over the right of U.S. military vessels to operate in China's two-hundred-mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ). These tensions are shaping—and being shaped by—rising apprehensions about the growth of China's military power and its regional intentions. China has embarked on a substantial modernization of its maritime paramilitary forces as well as naval capabilities to enforce its sovereignty and jurisdiction claims by force if necessary. At the same time, it is developing capabilities that would put U.S. forces in the region at risk in a conflict, thus potentially denying access to the U.S. Navy in the western Pacific.

Given the growing importance of the U.S.-China relationship, and the Asia-Pacific region more generally, to the global economy, the United States has a major interest in preventing any one of the various disputes in the South China Sea from escalating militarily.
Can't find a real U.S. response yet =/

At this point, I honestly think this move is to ensure no one else can possess that port and with no further escalation, but it does ensure their control of those ports in the Phillipines and their dominance in the South China sea. If war ever does break out, it's a quick grab from Scarborough, and I would make a million dollar bet, that after possession of that island, they will have a strong and constant military presence all along those routes.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:16 am
by woodchip
Scarborough today, Taiwan tomorrow.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:57 am
by flip
Taiwan has all but integrated into China. They are well within that 200 mile zone that is being contested.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:09 am
by woodchip
flip wrote:Taiwan has all but integrated into China. They are well within that 200 mile zone that is being contested.
Really? I wonder then why we still supply arms to the Taiwanese.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:30 am
by flip
Taiwan has a strong economic dependancy on China, a lender nation which holds a considerable amount of America's debt. With our handing of the recent Chinese dissident and our failing economy, I wouldn't expect too much confidence in the United States from those in that region.

EDIT:According to the Kyodo News, in March 2010 PRC officials told US officials that they consider the South China Sea a "core interest" on par with Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang[9] In July 2010 the Communist Party-controlled Global Times stated that "China will never waive its right to protect its core interest with military means"[10] and a Ministry of Defense spokesman said that "China has indisputable sovereignty of the South Sea and China has sufficient historical and legal backing" to underpin its claims.[11]

China has laid claim to the South China Sea and the whole of Taiwan, and this move towards Scarborough Shoals will solidify that claim. It's outright and mostly unfettered aggression. I would allow the Chinese to occupy that island on condition that the Philippines can build their military infrastructure unhindered. Otherwise that port goes into Chinese hand's without resistance.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:22 pm
by Nightshade
Top Gun wrote:Or maybe he just realizes that getting involved in a silly squabble over a little lump of rock wouldn't achieve anything.
This isn't a 'silly squabble' over lumps of rock. This is a provocation against the soverignty of several nations and freedom of navigation in international waters with vital international trade routes and resources.

It's clear you're rather ignorant in this matter.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:26 pm
by Tunnelcat
Funny how BIG wars start over a little chunks of land.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:27 pm
by flip
There are now 33 Chinese Gov't vessels in Scarborough (Panatag) shoal; (FLEC 310) most powerful Chinese maritime ship, and surveillance ships (CMS) 75 and 81, 7 PRC Gov"t fishing vessels, and 23 Chinese utility boats, blocking/scaring Filipino fishing boats from entering the lagoon. Opposing them are Philippines's BRP Edsa II and a search and rescue vessel belonging to the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources, staying back, watching.., because it's powerless. How in tarnation, you ask, can a country, with the most extensive coastline in the world, have such a pathetic naval/coastguard inventory? It's generation after generation of crooked/corrupt political leadership.., swindling its people, time after time unabated. The lot of the downtrodden is worse than previous GMA administration.
On Monday, He Jia, an anchor on China’s state-run CCTV, mistakenly declared that “China has unquestionable sovereignty over the Philippines” rather than just over the disputed island. On Tuesday, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying warned a Philippine diplomat that China was fully prepared to do anything to respond to escalation. Deep-water drilling has begun near islands in the South China Sea and Chinese travel agencies have reportedly suspended tours to the Philippines
Finally, CFR notes that the dispute has also included Chinese hacking attacks on Philippines government websites, as well as Filipino retaliatory hacking. This too is a front that could escalate since the Chinese government has shown no signs of trying to tamp down its own very nationalistic citizenry on this issue. Things are not yet really bad, but, ominously, they are not getting better either. The U.S. should be thinking again about its obligations under the Mutual Defense Treaty. It is no longer a purely theoretical obligation.
This was in January, before the dispute. This dispute over Scarborough is a reaction to increased U.S. presence in the area and the fact that the Phillipines were asking for a strong U.S. presence in the Phillipines.
Meanwhile, a squadron of Russia’s Pacific Fleet warships en route from the Gulf of Aden, including the Udaloy-class anti-submarine destroyer Admiral Panteleyev, entered the main port of Manila on Tuesday on a business visit. It is the first time Russian naval forces have paid a visit to the Philippines in 96 years.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:41 am
by Nightshade
It's still escalating:
PHL won't recognize China fishing ban in West Philippine Sea

(Updated 4:10 p.m.) The Philippines on Monday said it will not recognize China’s fishing ban over the West Philippine Sea (also called South China Sea).

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario rejected Beijing’s directive to suspend fishing activities for two and a half months beginning Wednesday in its claimed areas in the West Philippine Sea, saying this is an “encroachment” of Philippine territory.

....

A report by XInhua News Agency published in The Philippine Star on Monday said the ban would be enforced from May 16 to August 1 and would include the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal off northwestern Philippines, where Manila and Beijing are locked in a six-week naval standoff since early April.

The same report said China's move "is a reiteration of the summer fishing ban declared by China every year since 1999 in the waters it claims as part of its territory."

The announcement was made by Beijing’s South China Fisheries Administration Bureau of the Ministry of Agriculture, the report said. Violators would face fines up to 50,000 yuan or close to $8,000 while their catches and boats will be confiscated, it added.

“The Philippines does not recognize the fishing ban since this is an encroachment of its exclusive economic zone,” Del Rosario said. “The Philippines will exercise its legitimate and exclusive rights within its EEZ in accordance with UNCLOS.”

UNCLOS stands for the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which extends the territorial jurisdiction of maritime states up to 200 nautical miles from its coasts. It is signed by at least 162 nations, including the Philippines and China.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/25 ... ippine-sea

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:25 am
by flip

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:52 am
by woodchip
I wonder if the Philippine's Govt. still thinks it was a wise idea to have kicked the US Navy from Subic Bay?

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:26 am
by flip
I found it interesting that it happened in 1992 :). At the same time as the Soviet Union collapsed, the Berlin Wall fell, NAFTA was passed, and the European Union was formed, We gave up our foothold in the pacific theatre. There is actually two key infrastructures already present there. Subic Bay and Clark Air Force base. Both closed around the same time. I think the Phillipines asking for a stronger U.S. military presence is the biggest contributor to this standoff. China is asserting it's dominance in the region and got real close to those former bases, just in case someone else ;) made a move for them.

EDIT:Once that land bridge is pushed through Iran and Turkey, both China and Russia will have direct connections to all of Europe, effectively isolating us from the rest of the world. I imagine that's why we are stationed on both sides of Iran really. No one wants Africa, it's the oldest part of the earth and most of it's energy resources are gone.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/ ... est-text/1

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:53 pm
by flip

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:25 pm
by flip
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/09 ... index.html

Looks like China is making a move towards Japan's coastline too.

Re: China is out to make a point...

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:56 pm
by flip
Well, seems we were right. China has roped off and taken sovereignty over Scarborough Shoals and is now laying claim to Okinawa.

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1 ... ough-shoal