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Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:21 am
by roid
pretty amazing apology, well done.
i'll just quote the whole article coz coz cozcozcoz coz.
http://www.inquisitr.com/247977/jason-a ... ay-people/
Jason Alexander’s Apology For Gay Joke is Like Basically a Primer on Both Apologies and Being Nice to Gay People

As we reported yesterday, Jason Alexander (who we all know best as George from Seinfeld) made a whole series of jokes about cricket being gay on Craig Ferguson’s show.

Jason Alexander’s gaffe was- as far as post-Seinfeld insensitive humor incidents go- not all that bad, though indeed, still offensive to gay people and others on a few levels. And perhaps offensive to cricket.

But what happened next kind of made the whole incident worthwhile, even just as a teachable moment for anyone who has wondered why seemingly benign jokes like Alexander’s are offensive to many.

Jason Alexander managed to turn what could have been a very discriminatory incident into something far, far better- it became a bit of a teachable moment for everyone.

Perhaps it is because of the strides we’ve made even in just the past five or ten years, or perhaps it is just because it’s so nice that a celebrity like Alexander said things so heartfelt instead of the stock “I’m sorry you were offended” line we’re so used to.

It starts out nearly sounding like the latter with assertions from Jason that he’s not a stand-up comedian, he did the jokes before in Australia where cricket is big and they didn’t have a problem with it- but it gets better.

Normally, we would quote a piece like this, but Jason Alexander’s apology really needs to be read in full to absorb the full meaning- so here it is, below, from start to finish. Are you impressed with Jason Alexander’s apologizing skills?
“A message of amends.

Last week, I made an appearance on the Craig Ferguson show – a wonderfully unstructured, truly spontaneous conversation show. No matter what anecdotes I think will be discussed, I have yet to find that Craig and I ever touch those subjects. Rather we head off onto one unplanned, loony topic after another. It’s great fun trying to keep up with him and I enjoy Craig immensely.

During the last appearance, we somehow wandered onto the topic of offbeat sports and he suddenly mentioned something about soccer and cricket. Now, I am not a stand-up comic. Stand up comics have volumes of time-tested material for every and all occasions. I, unfortunately, do not. However, I’ve done a far amount of public speaking and emceeing over the years so I do have a scattered bit, here and there.

Years ago, I was hosting comics in a touring show in Australia and one of the bits I did was talking about their sports versus American sports. I joked about how their rugby football made our football pale by comparison because it is a brutal, no holds barred sport played virtually without any pads, helmets or protection. And then I followed that with a bit about how, by comparison, their other big sport of cricket seemed so delicate and I used the phrase, “ a bit gay”. Well, it was all a laugh in Australia where it was seen as a joke about how little I understood cricket, which in fact is a very, very athletic sport. The routine was received well but, seeing as their isn’t much talk of cricket here in America, it hasn’t come up in years.

Until last week. When Craig mentioned cricket I thought, “oh, goody – I have a comic bit about cricket I can do. Won’t that be entertaining?”. And so I did a chunk of this old routine and again referred to cricket as kind of “gay” – talking about the all white uniforms that never seem to get soiled; the break they take for tea time with a formal tea cart rolled onto the field, etc. I also did an exaggerated demonstration of the rather unusual way they pitch the cricket ball which is very dance-like with a rather unusual and exaggerated arm gesture. Again, the routine seemed to play very well and I thought it had been a good appearance.

Shortly after that however, a few of my Twitter followers made me aware that they were both gay and offended by the joke. And truthfully, I could not understand why. I do know that humor always points to the peccadillos or absurdities or glaring generalities of some kind of group or another – short, fat, bald, blonde, ethnic, smart, dumb, rich, poor, etc. It is hard to tell any kind of joke that couldn’t be seen as offensive to someone. But I truly did not understand why a gay person would be particularly offended by this routine.

However, troubled by the reaction of some, I asked a few of my gay friends about it. And at first, even they couldn’t quite find the offense in the bit. But as we explored it, we began to realize what was implied under the humor. I was basing my use of the word “gay” on the silly generalization that real men don’t do gentile, refined things and that my portrayal of the cricket pitch was pointedly effeminate , thereby suggesting that effeminate and gay were synonymous.

But what we really got down to is quite serious. It is not that we can’t laugh at and with each other. It is not a question of oversensitivity. The problem is that today, as I write this, young men and women whose behaviors, choices or attitudes are not deemed “man enough” or “normal” are being subjected to all kinds of abuse from verbal to physical to societal. They are being demeaned and threatened because they don’t fit the group’s idea of what a “real man” or a “real woman” are supposed to look like, act like and feel like.

For these people, my building a joke upon the premise I did added to the pejorative stereotype that they are forced to deal with everyday. It is at the very heart of this whole ugly world of bullying that has been getting rightful and overdue attention in the media. And with my well-intentioned comedy bit, I played right into those hurtful assumptions and diminishments.

And the worst part is – I should know better. My daily life is filled with gay men and women, both socially and professionally. I am profoundly aware of the challenges these friends of mine face and I have openly advocated on their behalf. Plus, in my own small way, I have lived some of their experience. Growing up in the ‘70’s in a town that revered it’s school sports and athletes, I was quite the outsider listening to my musical theater albums, studying voice and dance and spending all my free time on the stage. Many of the same taunts and jeers and attitudes leveled at young gay men and women were thrown at me and on occasion I too was met with violence or the threat of violence.

So one might think that all these years later I might be able to intuit that my little cricket routine could make some person who has already been made to feel alien and outcast feel even worse or add to the conditions that create their alienation. But in this instance, I did not make the connection. I didn’t get it.

So, I would like to say – I now get it. And to the extent that these jokes made anyone feel even more isolated or misunderstood or just plain hurt – please know that was not my intention, at all or ever. I hope we will someday live in a society where we are so accepting of each other that we can all laugh at jokes like these and know that there is no malice or diminishment intended.

But we are not there yet.

So, I can only apologize and I do. In comedy, timing is everything. And when a group of people are still fighting so hard for understanding, acceptance, dignity and essential rights – the time for some kinds of laughs has not yet come. I hope my realization brings some comfort.

Thanks,
Jason [Alexander]“
:E

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:36 pm
by Capm
That apology is gay.


:mrgreen:

(thats a joke)

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:05 pm
by Tunnelcat
Cricket is so preppy.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:22 pm
by Isaac
Wasn't one of the other Seinfeld guys in trouble for saying stuff?

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:30 pm
by roid
Isaac wrote:Wasn't one of the other Seinfeld guys in trouble for saying stuff?
yeah that was Kramer calling a heckler a ★■◆● during a standup act.
This is George ITT.

I'm not so much interested in railing on him for the initial slip-up, it was pretty minor. But his apology is a real good social commentary, it sums it up well.
I thought i'd post it as a nice heart-warming moment, but I've had a request to move this to E&C incase it inspires some deeper discussion (i dunno), i can do that later if necessary no prob, so discuss to your hearts content if you want.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:10 am
by Capm
I don't think it requires deep discussion, the bottom line here is that people (mainly Americans) are too oversensitive and uptight, and thats all it really is.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 am
by Sergeant Thorne
I think it does call for deep discussion, once we're all through feeling good about this fairytale presentation of the world we live in and the emotional struggles of homosexuals. I simply don't have the time this weekend.

Suffice for now to say that there is a necessary place for manliness in males both young and older, and the absence of it isn't any more excusable for the wrongs perpetrated by men who glorify it at the expense of other necessary qualities--holding it over the head of those who lack it, as if it makes them intrinsically better. Further homosexuality in men, for any number of reasons, is not manly. One can resist moral ills perpetrated by people against other people without coddling a social and moral degenerative disease, and it's either convenient, cowardly, or ignorant to make the championing of the two one and the same.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:44 am
by Ferno
Capm wrote:the bottom line here is that people (mainly Americans) are too oversensitive and uptight, and thats all it really is.
that's exactly it. a small vocal group got upset over a perceived slight and acted like they spoke for the entire group. Calling for "deep discussion" is simply mental masturbation.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:44 pm
by Top Gun
Sergeant Thorne wrote:Suffice for now to say that there is a necessary place for manliness in males both young and older, and the absence of it isn't any more excusable for the wrongs perpetrated by men who glorify it at the expense of other necessary qualities--holding it over the head of those who lack it, as if it makes them intrinsically better. Further homosexuality in men, for any number of reasons, is not manly. One can resist moral ills perpetrated by people against other people without coddling a social and moral degenerative disease, and it's either convenient, cowardly, or ignorant to make the championing of the two one and the same.
Grow up, Thorne.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:36 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
That doesn't even make any sense, TG. Rally your college education and do try a little harder next time. :P

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:37 pm
by Top Gun
Considering you seem to have a kindergartener's perspective on human sexuality, it seemed appropriate.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:58 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
I'm constantly reminded not to underestimate people's ability to defend the indefensible. Your hatred for my perspective on human sexuality is wielded like a child in that you try to make it into a matter of maturity when in fact it is a matter of some detail, consideration, and experience. You marginalize instead of debate, which is both unwise and immature. Unwise because I am certainly not alone. Now take your own advice and grow the ★■◆● up so I don't have to deal with your tantrums in order to debate on this beautiful summer day. ;)

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:08 pm
by Tunnelcat
Sergeant Thorne wrote:Suffice for now to say that there is a necessary place for manliness in males both young and older, and the absence of it isn't any more excusable for the wrongs perpetrated by men who glorify it at the expense of other necessary qualities--holding it over the head of those who lack it, as if it makes them intrinsically better. Further homosexuality in men, for any number of reasons, is not manly. One can resist moral ills perpetrated by people against other people without coddling a social and moral degenerative disease, and it's either convenient, cowardly, or ignorant to make the championing of the two one and the same.
Sergeant Thorne's problem might be his own problem. All the homosexual and gender variant people in this world get to hear about "his problem" constantly though. :wink:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 234458.htm

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:43 pm
by flip
Being homosexual has nothing to do with manliness. There are homosexuals who will not run in the face of any danger. It has to do with dysfunctional associations.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:17 pm
by Tunnelcat
I've met a few gay guys that looked like they could bite the heads off nails and were built like Schwarzenegger, yet they were the nicest guys to talk too. They were definitely not effeminate purty boys. :P

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:04 pm
by Alter-Fox
I don't think it's anyone's place to decide whether or not something is a disease unless they have it. Especially when it is entirely a part of the "mind" and can be considered a part of that person's self. It should be entirely up to that person to decide whether what they have is a good thing or a bad thing.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:41 pm
by Ferno
Sergeant Thorne wrote:Suffice for now to say that there is a necessary place for manliness in males both young and older, and the absence of it isn't any more excusable for the wrongs perpetrated by men who glorify it at the expense of other necessary qualities--holding it over the head of those who lack it, as if it makes them intrinsically better. Further homosexuality in men, for any number of reasons, is not manly. One can resist moral ills perpetrated by people against other people without coddling a social and moral degenerative disease, and it's either convenient, cowardly, or ignorant to make the championing of the two one and the same.
If a man is gay, he's not manly? moral degenerative disease? you're telling us being gay is contagious, like an infection and ones' perspective on morality can be 'cured' using the moral equivalent of antibiotics?

Too funny. I bet you would jump at the chance to gargle on my cream if you had the chance.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:22 pm
by Capm
I'm not bashing on gays here, and moral and ethical questions aside for the moment --

Homosexuality is wrong. A male and a male are not physically built to reproduce with each other, therefore it is un-natural. And before you quote that sometimes this happens in nature, humans can't spontaneously change sex as a natural part of their physiology, so your argument is invalid. This boils down to a neurological disorder that eventually medicine should be able to correct. I'm not faulting anyone who thinks they're gay. They're just sick, and they need treated.

You might disagree, you are entitled to your opinion, I won't argue with you, this is my view, and you won't change it.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:38 pm
by Ferno
unnatural huh?

well, humanity has made some pretty unnatural things. We call that artificial selection. You see it in our foods and pets, and as far as i've seen, we've accepted and endorsed those.

and as far as "treating" it, it's been tried. United States Surgeon General David Satcher in 2001 issued a report stating that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed". They simply don't work, and from the psychological data, they are both ill-advised and unnecessary.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:52 pm
by Alter-Fox
I don't think we have the right to presume to treat anyone for anything without them wanting it. And pressuring them into agreeing when they don't want it doesn't count.
I'm not sure what I think about calling it unnatural becuase that depends entirely on how you define natural, but I definitely would not call it wrong, any more than ADHD, or Autism, is wrong. I wouldn't even go so far as to call it a disability.

And now, in my humble opinion, this topic is definitely going into E&C territory.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:57 pm
by Ferno
of course it will alterfox. and what's going to happen is ST, woodchip and probably thunderbunny will foam at the mouth, claiming how homosexuality is wrong, forbidden in the bible etc, without actually looking into it, top gun, tunnelcat will disagree vehemently (tg being the more level-headed one), foil making a comment or two.. and callmeslick will say one thing before it turns into a circular topic consisting of six or seven pages. No headway will be made, everyone will keep their opinions no matter what, personal shots will start flying, ending with a lock by foil...


and i'll just laugh at the whole thing. :D I can hear you guys now.. "dammit! he's right."

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:52 pm
by Spidey
Ferno wrote:of course it will alterfox. and what's going to happen is ST, woodchip and probably thunderbunny will foam at the mouth, claiming how homosexuality is wrong, forbidden in the bible etc,
See, here’s your basic problem with lumping everyone together.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:12 pm
by roid
Capm wrote:And before you quote that sometimes this [homosexuality] happens in nature, humans can't spontaneously change sex as a natural part of their physiology, so your argument is invalid. ...
Sorry i don't follow the logic, in what way does the lack of this in mammals invalidate this?


Assuming you didn't actually mean the following of course, or why would anyone ever bother talking to you:
Capm wrote:I won't argue with you, this is my view, and you won't change it.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:25 pm
by flip
Somebody needs to wash ferno's mouth out with soap. YUCK. That's as far as my list has to go :P

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:05 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
Nice to have someone acknowledge the off-color nature of that comment. YUCK is right. It's the internet, and we have the cover of the non-personal nature of a BB, so I write it off as just Ferno being an internet idiot. In real life if someone even had the gall to say something stupid like that to my face, it might test my normally pleasant manner.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:56 am
by Alter-Fox
And I was so impressed with the civility in this topic so far...

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:05 pm
by Top Gun
Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'm constantly reminded not to underestimate people's ability to defend the indefensible. Your hatred for my perspective on human sexuality is wielded like a child in that you try to make it into a matter of maturity when in fact it is a matter of some detail, consideration, and experience. You marginalize instead of debate, which is both unwise and immature. Unwise because I am certainly not alone. Now take your own advice and grow the ★■◆● up so I don't have to deal with your tantrums in order to debate on this beautiful summer day. ;)
You're not alone because there are millions of drooling rednecks like you out there, making life hell for people who just want to be able to live regular lives. "Indefensible" my ass...you're the bigot here. Your viewpoint is wrong. You lose. Accept it and get over it.
Capm wrote:Homosexuality is wrong. A male and a male are not physically built to reproduce with each other, therefore it is un-natural. And before you quote that sometimes this happens in nature, humans can't spontaneously change sex as a natural part of their physiology, so your argument is invalid. This boils down to a neurological disorder that eventually medicine should be able to correct. I'm not faulting anyone who thinks they're gay. They're just sick, and they need treated.
This is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start with it. And the worst part is that I've already refuted it at least once in another thread. Maybe you guys could finally start doing the courtesy of listening to people who know what the hell they're talking about.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:54 pm
by Heretic
Seems like you are a bigot also but I guess it's ok to use the term drooling rednecks to insult which is no better than calling a homosexual a faggot or dike.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:35 pm
by CUDA
TG's own words meet the definition of the word bigot
But we all know that only conservatives can be bigots

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:55 pm
by Alter-Fox
I agree with TG's viewpoint if not with how he expresses it.
@Thorne, I'm a little bit curious why you say homosexuality is indefensible/immoral, beyond any reasons that have to do with religion or biology/dimorphism. Personally I don't see anything morally wrong with it so I'd kind of like to understand the reasons someone would see it as wrong.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:01 pm
by Tunnelcat
CUDA wrote:TG's own words meet the definition of the word bigot
But we all know that only conservatives can be bigots
TG's not a bigot. He's just passionate when he's calling the kettle black. If he were a bigot, he'd be out there actively trying to get a special constitutional amendment passed to outlaw marriage between rednecks. :wink:

But as to who's more homophobic, right or left, it's more murky.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... right.html

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
by CUDA
big·ot
   [big-uht] Show IPA
noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion
Bigot

so lets get back to that Pot meet kettle thing again
He's just passionate when he's calling the kettle black
Passion is one thing Bigoted passion is something else

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:25 pm
by Top Gun
Heretic wrote:Seems like you are a bigot also but I guess it's ok to use the term drooling rednecks to insult which is no better than calling a homosexual a faggot or dike.
Ahahaha...so calling a spade a spade now qualifies as bigotry. At least the way I've always used it, the term "redneck" refers to someone who willfully closes their mind to basic facts and reasoning, who revels in their own ignorance, who dismisses most concepts of progress out of hand. If some of you really find that term offensive, maybe you'd better take a good long look at yourselves and see if you fall into any of those classifications.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:28 pm
by CUDA
Top Gun wrote:
Heretic wrote:Seems like you are a bigot also but I guess it's ok to use the term drooling rednecks to insult which is no better than calling a homosexual a ****** or dike.
Ahahaha...so calling a spade a spade now qualifies as bigotry. At least the way I've always used it, the term "redneck" refers to someone who willfully closes their mind to basic facts and reasoning, who revels in their own ignorance, who dismisses most concepts of progress out of hand. If some of you really find that term offensive, maybe you'd better take a good long look at yourselves and see if you fall into any of those classifications.
so it's OK in your eyes to use a derogatory term to describe someone?

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:30 pm
by Top Gun
If they are willfully behaving like a fool, then I have no problem with using a word like "redneck." If you can't see the massive difference between that and the topic at hand, I'm not really sure we have anything more to discuss.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:32 pm
by CUDA
and if you cannot see the hypocrisy of your posts and position on these issues then

"I'm not really sure we have anything more to discuss."

because it is your OPINION that they are acting like a fool
o·pin·ion/əˈpinyən/
Noun:

A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:43 pm
by Top Gun
I think being afraid of and/or hating something which is perfectly natural and does not affect the individual in any way can be considered foolish from a fairly-universal standpoint.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:45 pm
by CUDA
your changing the subject, we are talking Bigotry, and by your own posts you are displaying it loud and clear.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:02 pm
by Top Gun
Uh-huh.

Re: Jason Alexander apologizes really well!

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:50 pm
by Enzo-03
Top Gun wrote:
Heretic wrote:Seems like you are a bigot also but I guess it's ok to use the term drooling rednecks to insult which is no better than calling a homosexual a ****** or dike.
Ahahaha...so calling a spade a spade now qualifies as bigotry. At least the way I've always used it, the term "redneck" refers to someone who willfully closes their mind to basic facts and reasoning, who revels in their own ignorance, who dismisses most concepts of progress out of hand. If some of you really find that term offensive, maybe you'd better take a good long look at yourselves and see if you fall into any of those classifications.
★■◆● you, dude.

You just insulted all of my dad's side of my family, who consider themselves rednecks since they're rural southerners (as do many other rural southerners).

But I guess that's o.k. since those kind of people are *generally* conservative.

And aside from that, I'm pretty sure most people have, at least once in their lives, fit at least one of those classifications anyway. And I highly doubt you're some paragon of nonignorance, yourself.