DescentBB

Well once again Janet "Butch" Napolitano shows her courage in the face of adversity. Not only has she proclaimed that ICE agents will not respond to Arizona law enforcement request to take illegals they discover, now our modern day Joan of Arc is instructing the border agents to run away if a illegal pulls a gun. My question is, why even have a Dept. of Homeland Sec. if they can't do their job?

In the interim I am accepting donations to buy the border agents clown suits, hobby horses and Mattel Fanner Fifty's to properly do their newly classified jobs.

that's why under the current Administration they changed the name to "The Department of Homeland Insecurity"

That's a good one!

I've been calling it that since its inception, since all they have ever done is make the general public feel less secure by continually finding more and more invasive things that the agency must do in order to thwart the terrorist bogeyman.

Thank you Bush.

woodchip wrote:Well once again Janet "Butch" Napolitano shows her courage in the face of adversity. Not only has she proclaimed that ICE agents will not respond to Arizona law enforcement request to take illegals they discover, now our modern day Joan of Arc is instructing the border agents to run away if a illegal pulls a gun. My question is, why even have a Dept. of Homeland Sec. if they can't do their job?

In the interim I am accepting donations to buy the border agents clown suits, hobby horses and Mattel Fanner Fifty's to properly do their newly classified jobs.

don't forget those little tiny cars for the clowns to jump in and out of......seriously, though, that wasn't quite what she said. All she was doing in the Arizona matter was supporting the position clearly stated by the SCOTUS, and not doing anything to allow Arizona officials dictate the direction of national immigration policy. Essentially, she is telling them not to encourage the goofy 'discovery' law, as it is just going to lead to a mass of lawsuits. Could you give me a direct quote as to the 'run away' thing, or would you prefer to just keep making stuff up?

Note--even Fox News doesn't run with that 'run from guns' nonsense. No mention in their article, which actually uses JN's words and not fictional BS. Note that they clearly state her purpose as steering clear of lawsuits:

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politi ... e-supreme/

Somebody needs to protect that border, what with the drug and gun running going on .
It is inherent to Arizona's security and sovereignty to protect it's citizens from the criminal element given free pass into their neighborhoods by the Federal Government. Go take a week long vacation in one of those border towns, I imagine you damn sure wouldn't want to live there

callmeslick wrote:

don't forget those little tiny cars for the clowns to jump in and out of......seriously, though, that wasn't quite what she said. All she was doing in the Arizona matter was supporting the position clearly stated by the SCOTUS, and not doing anything to allow Arizona officials dictate the direction of national immigration policy. Essentially, she is telling them not to encourage the goofy 'discovery' law, as it is just going to lead to a mass of lawsuits. Could you give me a direct quote as to the 'run away' thing, or would you prefer to just keep making stuff up?

Note--even Fox News doesn't run with that 'run from guns' nonsense. No mention in their article, which actually uses JN's words and not fictional BS. Note that they clearly state her purpose as steering clear of lawsuits:

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politi ... e-supreme/

Do you know how to use Google Slick?:

"Border Patrol agents in Arizona are blasting their bosses for telling them, along with all other Department of Homeland Security employees, to run and hide if they encounter an "active shooter.""

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/29/bo ... z1zWA7jl3t

"The union's website summarizes:

" It is always comforting to know that for those of us who carry a weapon when we are off-duty, if we should encounter such a situation, stop a shooter and save countless lives, we can look forward to being disciplined or fired by the Border Patrol because we should have run away to hide and then maybe thrown objects at the deranged killer instead of taking action and stopping him with a firearm.""

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... n-And-Hide

flip wrote:Somebody needs to protect that border, what with the drug and gun running going on .
It is inherent to Arizona's security and sovereignty to protect it's citizens from the criminal element given free pass into their neighborhoods by the Federal Government. Go take a week long vacation in one of those border towns, I imagine you damn sure wouldn't want to live there

Texas ain't waiting around. They're getting some boats with some serious firepower and flipping the bird at Homeland Security. They're getting tired of all the drug runner splashdowns.

http://www.cbspressexpress.com/cbs-news ... w?id=32184

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... FU20120301

What's sad in all this was if Americans would quit using drugs, we wouldn't have this problem. Of course, if we made drugs a legal product...........

Yeah, I can't go for the "quit drugs" argument. Not because it isn't a sound idea or would be good, but because it's ridiculously unrealistic. You have to account for human nature and go from there. That's why I love where I live. You have to be getting seriously out of line here for them to come down on you. They let people be people and allow for it. I think it was Jimmy Carter that said what made the most sense to me.
""Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself."

Of course, if we made drugs legal, nothing would ever get done because we'd either be enjoying ourselves too much, or be too zoned out to care.

That's not usually the case. I think it's more psychological than anything. Take cigarettes for instance. 30-40 years ago, anchors and commentators on just about every show had a cig hangin from their mouths. Back then it was perfectly acceptable a no big deal made out of it. It's like the acquiring of a conscience though when it is stigmatized. No big deal= hardly a second thought.
As soon as it's criminalized in some form then the individual starts behaving differently to retain acceptance of the group. So then they either conform or become more and more belligerent. I'm a firm believer that nothing is wrong until you think it is wrong, and then to continue going against what you yourself believe is wrong is very destructive.

Oh and to the original topic, State rights are going to become a huge issue eventually.

flip wrote:Oh and to the original topic, State rights are going to become a huge issue eventually.

uh, like they haven't been since around 1780? Hell, we did fight a Civil War over them, if you recall. And, the Federalists won.

I'm not talking about history books or romanticized stories. I am saying that in this day and age;) state rights are fixing to become just as big an issue, as in the past. Things we have only heard stories about

EDIT: Or not, there is no way to know how these people:

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas"

who have been indoctrinated differently than I was indoctrinated will behave. There's about 30 years worth of them now, while mine and older generations like mine are steadily getting older. The whole point of that statement I quoted was ways to acomplish it slowly by using doctrines that would eventually allow such a thing. Still.......

Right now, Arizona and Texas are being overrun with foreign nationals, from God knows where, and the Federal Government is not only allowing it, they are making it easier. That is gonna be a problem, because government is made up of people all the way down to the local level, and because of such they like the idea of self rule and basically do. If I was in Arizona or Texas, I would be corrrect in feeling that the federal government was being no friend. Still remains to be seen, you remove all those things above that give you national pride and a sense of community, it's no telling what you end up with. Buncha rubes maybe....

There's always going to be a back and forth between states rights and federal authority. But the states aren't little countries unto their own, and they can't expect to always do things their way. If that were the case, we'd still have states supporting slavery, racial inequity and perhaps even Prohibition. There are just some things that the feds should have precedent and control over for the good of the country. However, I do agree that the borders need a much more hands on approach than the feds are giving it now. Obama's seemingly laissez faire border policy, at the moment, is the result of election year politicking, and he knows the Latino vote will grease his skids come November.

If that is true, he should hung for treason by his peers

tunnelcat wrote:Of course, if we made drugs legal, nothing would ever get done because we'd either be enjoying ourselves too much, or be too zoned out to care.

Yeah i remember back when they experimented with legalising Caffeine. No-one slept for 2 months, everyone was always on it. They had to make it illegal again to keep people safe.




ps: dont' forget the always interesting rat park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

tunnelcat wrote:I do agree that the borders need a much more hands on approach than the feds are giving it now. Obama's seemingly laissez faire border policy, at the moment, is the result of election year politicking, and he knows the Latino vote will grease his skids come November.

It get my ire up to see these things described in such a harmless-sounding way. Everyone involved should be jailed for life. Letting non-Americans into the country to sway voting outcome is about as close to treason as you can get without actually being there, if you ask me. It would be criminal negligence on the part of the federal government, if it weren't so idiotic to assume it to be merely negligence.

Hey Roid, are energy drinks becoming as popular in Australia as they are in the U.S.? Caffeine is doing a lot of damage. Basically people don't get enough sleep, then they're led to believe they can just offset that with a "5-Hour Energy" or some other energy drink. Less sleep + caffeine is basically the new recipe for success. I believe people will pay the price, health-wise. Sleep isn't just about alertness and energy levels. Probably nearly 1/3 of the drinks in a gas station these days are energy drinks. I'm not saying caffeine should necessarily be outlawed, because I don't think that's the way to go, but our friends at the Food and Drug Administration over here aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing (the bastards are busy chasing raw milk, etc).

flip wrote:If that is true, he should hung for treason by his peers

That and even thinking about joining the TPP should be called treasonous offenses. But, like all things, you got to prove it and get someone to prosecute. We couldn't even get Bush/Cheney hung for the crimes of state-sanctioned torture and starting 2 illegal wars. Ya think we could get Obama hung for allowing people into the country just for the purpose of swaying the vote his way?

roid wrote:Yeah i remember back when they experimented with legalising Caffeine. No-one slept for 2 months, everyone was always on it. They had to make it illegal again to keep people safe.

Hey roid, you reminded me of an old 1950's set of experiments on rats involving the pleasure center of the brain. They wired up rat's brains so that the rats themselves could directly electrically stimulate their brain's pleasure centers. They discovered that the rats would go to extremes just to get their pleasure "fix", even to the point of not eating and death. It was even tried on humans, but is now taboo, for obvious reasons. It was called "wireheading".

http://motherboard.vice.com/2010/10/18/ ... -the-brain

http://ieet.org/index.php/tpwiki/Wireheading/

http://www.wisegeek.com/where-is-the-br ... center.htm

yes, the Rat Park experiment was devised to show that experiments such as the wirehead experiments were flawed.

The rats self-medicated because they were bored and stressed. I mean, how would you feel locked in a small cage by yourself with wires comming outof your head and nothing to do?

The rats in rat-park had drugs but they chose to avoid them, they chose to have fun playing with eachother instead.

I believe the conclusions of the experiment suggested that rats (and by extensions, perhaps humans) only take drugs when they are stressed/bored/etc, basically it's a symptom of an unfulfilling/unhappy life.

Yeah, and the temptation is there because a LOT of people have unhappy and unsatisfying lives. I can see where this might lead if pleasure became an easy quick fix for a crappy life.

Yup, agreed. I actually think virtual reality games will replace drugs eventually. They kinda provide the same escape fom reality.

Now when they come up with holodecks, we'll be definitely hooked on virtual reality. Although computer games at the present are still pretty addicting. Have you ever caught yourself trying to look around your monitor thinking that you'll get a better look at where your enemy's hiding during some firefight? Don't work do it?

never say never
[youtube]0PQoO31VQLI[/youtube] [youtube]Jd3-eiid-Uw[/youtube]

That's pretty cool! But you still gotta sit on your butt in front of a monitor. I want something more "immersive" that gets me moving around and doesn't make my inner ear and stomach have an argument.

No, one can't just sit there like a slobbering zombie and get a quickie fix with just eye goggles. I want a freaking HOLODECK dammit!

You'll have to settle for one of these for now. The government is not releasing the alien holodecks just yet


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQR49JGy ... ure=fvwrel

anyone ever see the movie Strange Days? VR was the drug of the future......

Awesome movie

flip wrote:You'll have to settle for one of these for now. The government is not releasing the alien holodecks just yet


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQR49JGy ... ure=fvwrel

That's getting pretty darn close! I want one!