DescentBB

It's called ubuntu 10.04. It' amaaaazing... The repos are full of outdated stuff, but I've been installing debs with the latest software without issue.

Using Linuxmint 13 with Gnome-shell, Mate, Cinnimon, Untiy, and other random stuff, I've realized I've been thinking about Linux completely wrong.

1) Find the distro that has run the fastest and most stable.
2) Manually improve any support it lacks, rather than do it with different distro.
3) Enjoy your custom up to date distro.

Eventually I'll move to Arch Linux, where I'll be doing the exact same thing, with more precision.

Ubuntu 10.04 is a better starting point to improve on, rather than trying to improve a 12.04 distro. The hardware support was made for my generation netbook. 12.04 based distros work, but they do some extra massaging to make work smoothly on my netbook. I had tweaked quite a bit to make things run better in every 12.04 distro I've tried. Audio and UIDs had minor issues that I had to fix. There was also a question of snapier performance. 10.04 with Gnome2 has always been the best, so it made sense to me to improve the flaws in 10.04 rather than those in 12.04 based distros.

So why doesn't everyone do this? Why not take the distro that ran the best with your computer and modernize it yourself? If it is for the security updates, can you not go out and get a newer kernel with the latest app-armor? If it's for the hardware support, can you not go out and get a better driver, not found in your standard repos? If it's for newer software, can you not go to source forge and download the program like some windows savage?

I see now how I should be using Linux and that I've been doing it wrong. Distros have turned Linux into a marketing game, where "Check out the hot new Distro" makes news in the Linux community. The fact is, they're doing what you can do better, except for the masses. You don't need the latest distro.

does it play the games that are out on the market?

I like debian. Ubuntu is just debian with a dress on . Not that I have a need for it yet.

flip wrote:I like debian. Ubuntu is just debian with a dress on . Not that I have a need for it yet.

I like to take the dress off her.

Ferno wrote:does it play the games that are out on the market?

Go back to your xbox and facebook

edit: it depends on the game

Go back to your xbox...

Oooooooh console gamer I smell WAR rrRAAAWR

I use Ubuntu when I need a fast-setup Linux box, but typically I use Gentoo, which is even easier now thanks to virtualization, as I can copy my Gentoo VM forever and repurpose each one to whatever need. Ubuntu is a nice stable end-user distro like a college kid's 4-cyl economy car (that young people "try" to make into street racers), but Gentoo is that custom built bike with the nitrous oxide to get up to speed before you ignite the rocket motors that's made especially for running on the salt flats...

Unfortunately, Windows is still the nice comfy family car/minivan, while the Mac is a push-button Limo with chauffeur included...

Isaac wrote:

Ferno wrote:does it play the games that are out on the market?

Go back to your xbox and facebook

edit: it depends on the game

so, the answer is no.

The people who use this board have quite a few games on their PC.

Until linux has native support for PC games without the use of WINE, it is rather useless for the full gamut of computer usage. And until users of linux figure out that a lot of people just cannot be bothered to create a custom kernel, all linux distros will always be, on the fringe.


oh and.. don't patronize me. I don't react well to it.

"Creating a custom kernel" seems to be the software equivalent of "etching your own motherboard." That is, you couldn't pay me enough to do it.

Configuring and compiling your kernel, while at first daunting, is ridiculously easy. Every option can be looked up and it's not that difficult to determine what things you need compiled in, and what can be loaded as mods. It's just a time issue. Doing the studywork to prepare for it takes a couple hours...but after that, a new kernel is just 5-10 mins away, depending on CPU speed.

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to install a new OS every two months. Sounds quite annoying.

Ferno wrote: so, the answer is no.

It depends on the popularity of the game. You might have heard of Wine. Wine isn't an emulator. It's an API that supports Windows programs. Complicated, but generally works with popular programs and games.

Sorry, I tend to snap at Windows users. I'll behave...

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to install a new OS every two months. Sounds quite annoying.

But what is an Operating System? Can you change your windows manager and claim it's the same operating system? Can you change your Desktop Environment and still claim it's the same OS? Is it the collection of hardware support? In Windows, you're lead to believe that these things can't be separated. I had Ubuntu 10.04 for almost two years after it came out, but I never stopped customizing.

"Creating a custom kernel" seems to be the software equivalent of "etching your own motherboard." That is, you couldn't pay me enough to do it.

Compiling for Linux had become user friendly. Remember that these were made with you, the general user, in mind.

Configuring and compiling your kernel, while at first daunting, is ridiculously easy. Every option can be looked up and it's not that difficult to determine what things you need compiled in, and what can be loaded as mods. It's just a time issue. Doing the studywork to prepare for it takes a couple hours...but after that, a new kernel is just 5-10 mins away, depending on CPU speed.

^^This

Valin Halcyon wrote:I use Ubuntu when I need a fast-setup Linux box, but typically I use Gentoo, which is even easier now thanks to virtualization, as I can copy my Gentoo VM forever and repurpose each one to whatever need. Ubuntu is a nice stable end-user distro like a college kid's 4-cyl economy car (that young people "try" to make into street racers), but Gentoo is that custom built bike with the nitrous oxide to get up to speed before you ignite the rocket motors that's made especially for running on the salt flats...

That's cool. Assuming Gentoo is like Arch Linux, I'm not yet ready for a big-boy OS quite yet. I'll graduate from Ubuntu soon.

Sirius wrote:I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to install a new OS every two months. Sounds quite annoying.

Isaac wrote:That's cool. Assuming Gentoo is like Arch Linux, I'm not yet ready for a big-boy OS quite yet.

I think Gentoo is a little more difficult than Arch.

Isaac wrote:I'll graduate from Ubuntu soon.

I'm still in the baby crib when it comes to Linux. Wish I had more time to spend learning it.

I'm pretty sure a different distro of Linux will introduce enough differences to be comparable to a reinstall. The bright side is your applications hopefully won't care too much (unless they're tied to various aspects of the window manager or something).

TigerRaptorFX wrote:I'm still in the baby crib when it comes to Linux. Wish I had more time to spend learning it.

I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly, but I quit windows cold turkey and forced myself to live with my distro. I use it at work and at school. It's not the fastest way to learn, because you're more focused on, "How can I get this working right the ★■◆● now!" rather than, "what's the optimal way to do this?" That rushed way of thinking has kept me going with Debian based distros. When I change to Arch Linux I'll be doing things a bit less chaotic.

My God, how much time do you have on your hands, Isaac?

Sure, I'd love to customize my OS to suit me, and redo it every time my whims change... I'm a developer, after all. However, I have other/better things to do with my limited time.

Foil, it doesn't take that much time. I work, go to school, and still have time for the gym. No, I don't have a family to support or a girlfriend, but I feel those things would slow me down.

Yeah I agree with you Issac, I'm not that much into the reproduction shtick, but, well, Foil is a dad... And MANY other people here are too. Consider the age of this community .
And there are far more people in the world who want to make more people, than ones who don't.

I find it easier to keep up with the modern release and to disable one or two of the annoying things rather than to use an older release and to try to modernize everything from the ground up.

Jeff250 wrote:I find it easier to keep up with the modern release and to disable one or two of the annoying things rather than to use an older release and to try to modernize everything from the ground up.

Sensei Jeff, think about those poor saps that are running old ATI cards. They're always crying about how 12.04 based distros have forgotten them. They'd be far better off starting with the distro that ran the best on their computer (like 8.04) and just install whatever libs and apps they need as they need them, no?

Alter-Fox wrote:Yeah I agree with you Issac, I'm not that much into the reproduction shtick, but, well, Foil is a dad... And MANY other people here are too. Consider the age of this community .
And there are far more people in the world who want to make more people, than ones who don't.

Son: "Dad, I'm gay.."
Dad: "Fine"
Son: "And I've been trying Windows at school and I think I'm liking it"
Dad: "I HAVE NO SON!"
Son: "It was just one time!!!! I didn't even boot it!!"
Dad:"GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!"
Son: "Fine, dad! Good bye!"
Dad: "YOU CAN CLIMB OUT THE WINDOW SINCE THAT'S WHAT YOUR KIND LOVES"

Isaac wrote:Sensei Jeff, think about those poor saps that are running old ATI cards. They're always crying about how 12.04 based distros have forgotten them. They'd be far better off starting with the distro that ran the best on their computer (like 8.04) and just install whatever libs and apps they need as they need them, no?

Anyone using an 8.04-era ATI card can buy a low-end nvidia one for $50 that's 4x as fast and uses 1/4 the energy. That seems like the path of least resistance to me. And plus you get to spend $ on a company that actually values writing good drivers. (Hopefully a linux user buying a *new* video card would know not to buy ATI.)

For desktops I agree. But some laptops of that era are still working fine and have built-in ATI cards.

Regarding gaming, if you play a lot of Windows-only games, then obviously linux is not a good choice. But if you only have time to play a few games here and there, then linux has an increasingly large selection. We have seen five rounds of the Humble Bundle games, which are top notch. Moreover, Steam will be on Linux by year's end and Valve's games perform better on linux than on Windows. Something to ponder.

@Issac Nah, I'm attracted to members of my kind of the opposite sexual persuasion -- not that there's anything wrong with going the other way -- but I make a conscious decision that I don't want to be a parent, maybe not even have a relationship. I think I'm more of a non-sexual. The planet's overpopulation problem is more important than my own biological urges.

Jeff250 wrote:Regarding gaming, if you play a lot of Windows-only games, then obviously linux is not a good choice. But if you only have time to play a few games here and there, then linux has an increasingly large selection. We have seen five rounds of the Humble Bundle games, which are top notch. Moreover, Steam will be on Linux by year's end and Valve's games perform better on linux than on Windows. Something to ponder.

You could use Linux. It will be more work to get it working, but you could. And performance might not be worse. It might even be better.

Yesterday I was working with someone. We both had our laptops and MS Word 2007 open on both computers. Her laptop is faster than mine with more memory, which isn't hard to do as I have a 1 GHz Atom Intel 1GB ram 15GB SSD Netbook. However, my netbook was snappy and fast while her Windows XP boat was slow. She showed me some header menu she had found. Every button she clicked I would click on my netbook, following along. Mine would load instantly, while hers took at least a full second to open.

edit: Also, to be a jerk, we raced to see which of our machines could boot faster. I was able to boot... shut down... boot... and shutdown... boot.. then go online in the time she was able to boot.

Alter-Fox wrote:@Issac Nah, I'm attracted to members of my kind of the opposite sexual persuasion -- not that there's anything wrong with going the other way -- but I make a conscious decision that I don't want to be a parent, maybe not even have a relationship. I think I'm more of a non-sexual.

I wasn't calling you gay. You mentioned parenting, so I wrote a spoof of the stereotypical homophobic father disowning his son, changing homophobic to windowphobic.

I didn't think so, but I bet there are people here who thought I was.

Alter-Fox wrote:I didn't think so, but I bet there are people here who thought I was.

Why would they think that?

Isaac wrote:Yesterday I was working with someone. We both had our laptops and MS Word 2007 open on both computers. Her laptop is faster than mine with more memory, which isn't hard to do as I have a 1 GHz Atom Intel 1GB ram 15GB SSD Netbook. However, my netbook was snappy and fast while her Windows XP boat was slow. She showed me some header menu she had found. Every button she clicked I would click on my netbook, following along. Mine would load instantly, while hers took at least a full second to open.

edit: Also, to be a jerk, we raced to see which of our machines could boot faster. I was able to boot... shut down... boot... and shutdown... boot.. then go online in the time she was able to boot.

Let me guess: the Windows machine was running on a 7200 RPM at best laptop hard drive and had the standard manufacturer automatic startup bloatware + antivirus installed.

Perhaps to get a really apples to apples comparison you should replace your SSD with a mechanical drive and make your Linux build load 10-15 applications on every boot after a year or more of regular updates fragmenting the OS.

Boot…lol

I press any key and each of my machines are ready to use in 3 seconds flat.

People really need to learn how to use sleep mode, it’s how the latest versions of Windows are supposed to work.

well as long as you're not carrying them around...

To my loving DBBers,

I make use of suspend... I was just competing against another laptop... No one else does this?

Alter-Fox wrote:well as long as you're not carrying them around...

It should kill power to most of the machine, including the harddrive.

But it leaves the needle on. Better hope nothing bumps that needle...
Of course look who's talking I do it all the time.

Alter-Fox wrote:But it leaves the needle on. Better hope nothing bumps that needle...
Of course look who's talking I do it all the time.

Mechanical harddrives have an arm that's held with a spring. The spring pulls the arms away from the disks.

In order for the arms to swing over the discs, power has to be given to the servos that control the arm. When the power suspended, the spring recoils and pulls the arm away, back to the resting position.

Actually IIRC in most drives the mechanical spring has given away to a fixed magnet that pushes the head back at all times and is only countered by an electromagnet while in operation. (Magnets are more consistent and don't wear out like a spring would.) As to where the heads park, they can either snap all the way in to the center of the disk, or they can snap all the way out and completely come off the disk, it varies by drive and manufacturer.

Did you also know that the disks themselves aren't always made of metal? The coating is the magnetic part, so the disk can be made out of anything sturdy enough to do the job (and actually shouldn't be magnetic). Usually this means Aluminum because it is light weight and inexpensive, but there are also drives that use disks made out of glass or ceramic. You wouldn't want to drop the average hard drive, but that goes double for one with glass or ceramic disks.

I once smacked the top of a case with a slowly-failing HDD in a burst of anger, and the thing made a noise something like a buzzsaw. Astoundingly, it still worked after that.

Top Gun wrote:I once smacked the top of a case with a slowly-failing HDD in a burst of anger, and the thing made a noise something like a buzzsaw. Astoundingly, it still worked after that.

Don't be zuch a baby. Disk Sectors grow back...

No zey don't...