DescentBB

...no wait.

Cops: LGBT volunteer shoots conservative group's guard

(AP) WASHINGTON - A man suspected of shooting and wounding a security guard in the lobby of a Christian lobbying group had been volunteering at a community center for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people.

A law enforcement official has identified the suspect arrested in Wednesday's shooting as Floyd Corkins II of Herndon, Va. Investigators were interviewing his neighbors.

Another official says the shooter made a negative reference about the work of the Family Research Council before opening fire. The officials spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation... [continued]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-574 ... ups-guard/

[...]

Don't compare board members to murderers. It's a dick move and against the rules. --Jeff250

I missed your input into the neo-nazi attacking Sikhs, TB, and can't find anything in the archives about any of the many attacks on abortion providers where pro-life activists DID actually open fire............isn't it all pretty much the same? Why cherry pick?

Hey Foil, I'm assuming you sent TB a message as well and are going to delete this thread right?

Delete this thread? Why is that?

Because it's another one of TB's shitposts, maybe?

i.e. this is an actual thing that could be commented on, but starting off with the usual BS pretty much negates that from the get-go.

I've been trying to tell TB, quite bluntly I might add, that these posts are counterproductive and pretty insulting. but he just doesn't get it. So I just stuck him on ignore.

No, Foil deleted my post and sent me a private message warning me about personal attacks when I said that I was glad to hear from TB after that crazy guy in Milwaukee shot up that temple. It was done rather quick, so I'm curious as to why TB was allowed to say a nearly identical thing.

On topic, we must get used to these types of things. With 300 million firearms in the United States, these types of events are bound to happen every so often. This is the price we pay for having the freedom to buy guns. I suggest we all find a way to deal with it and stop acting so outraged and horrified. People die every day. Oh well.

Yeah, I'm with Ferno on this one. If something offends you personally or continually just ignore it. I'm against outright censorship. Especially censorship of written words . I can see getting between 2 people who are fixing to physically fight but deleting remarks starts to cross a dangerous line. Like me and Ferno for instance, we have not seen eye to eye on somethings, but there is nothing he has ever written that I feel should just be removed from existence. Say TB does go on a rampage one day, Foil keeps deleting all the evidence against him . LOL, but seriously, censorship even on a private board sets a dangerous precedent.

CobGobbler wrote:No, Foil deleted my post and sent me a private message warning me about personal attacks.

notice... personal attacks. this thread regardless of what you think of it's topic and who posted it, is not a personal attack.

CobGobbler wrote:On topic, we must get used to these types of things

WHY???
Why should we ever start accepting these kind of things?

CobGobbler wrote:I suggest we all find a way to deal with it and stop acting so outraged and horrified.

you should be outraged and horrified by these kind of things. it's called having a conscience. I suppose you'd like us to go up to the family members of those killed in Aurora Colorado and tell them "Deal with it. people die all the time"

I might be wrong, CUDA, but Cob may have been referring to the personal mention of my name, linked to a crazed shooter. Me, personally, I wasn't offended, but yes, it was in very poor taste. Anyone who reads the original poster's threads shouldn't be shocked, though, should they?

exactly slick.

Cuda, you ask why I said that? It's simple, there is nothing we can do to stop these incidents from happening. There is no way of knowing when a person flips their switch from rational to irrational--couple that with the availability of weaponry in this country and you have an unstoppable mix. One of these mass shootings happens and we get all sad for a couple of weeks, then it goes away and we go back to our lives as if nothing happened.

callmeslick wrote:I might be wrong, CUDA, but Cob may have been referring to the personal mention of my name, linked to a crazed shooter. Me, personally, I wasn't offended, but yes, it was in very poor taste. Anyone who reads the original poster's threads shouldn't be shocked, though, should they?

You're right I missed that. Sorry Cob.

CobGobbler wrote:Cuda, you ask why I said that? It's simple, there is nothing we can do to stop these incidents from happening. There is no way of knowing when a person flips their switch from rational to irrational--couple that with the availability of weaponry in this country and you have an unstoppable mix. One of these mass shootings happens and we get all sad for a couple of weeks, then it goes away and we go back to our lives as if nothing happened.

You're 100% right

but!!!

your comments of accepting it and to stop acting outraged and horrified are 100% wrong

I guess it is just the rarity of it that draws attention, shootings are rare enough to make the news and get people outraged and horrified, while upwards of a hundred people getting killed in motor vehicle accidents is an everyday occurrence. Where is all the outrage and horror at the level of death and carnage on the highways?

The US government actually keeps track of highway death statistics for us: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
In 2010, there were 32,885 traffic fatalities in the US, which is an average of 90 every day. According to the CDC, Motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death among healthy adults.

I am often frustrated by how differently gun related deaths are treated to motor vehicle related deaths. If the gun control crowd invested half as much time and effort into trying to make people drive safely they could probably consistently save a lot more lives, but nobody seems to care.

I don't know Cuda, I can't think of a mechanism that exists where we can avoid these types of scenarios. There are 300 million people in this country and the vast majority are rational people just trying to make a living. The few that cause these horrific incidents slip through the cracks because there is no system in place to identify them, and, quite frankly there is no way to positively identify possible lunatics before they go out and commit these crimes.

The last few mass shooters (Aurora, Virginia Tech) were law abiding citizens. We found out after the fact that they were dealing with psychological issues, but that is not grounds to keep someone from exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Hell, the guy in Milwaukee was known by the government as a potential problem, but even they couldn't do anything about it. No idea man, I just think there is nothing for any of us to do and we waste our time talking about it. There is nothing we can do, nothing at all to avoid these incidents. And it is shame indeed. No one asks or deserves this.

Krom wrote: Motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death among healthy adults.

that's the difference. they are not Motor vehicle INTENTIONALS and we do treat Drunk or Impaired driving differently.

CUDA wrote:

Krom wrote: Motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death among healthy adults.

that's the difference. they are not Motor vehicle INTENTIONALS and we do treat Drunk or Impaired driving differently.

And yet, it is so much easier to stop accidents than it is to stop "intentionals".

Personally, I see very little value in the "Why don't [insert group] do anything about X, when Y is [worse / more frequent / easier to fix / etc.]?" arguments. They usually serve more to pigeonhole/label people, than to make any real comparison between issues.

Honestly, I think there's more consensus in here than an outsider might read. No one here supports the OP shooting, or abortion-clinic bombings, or motor-vehicle deaths, and I daresay everyone here would do something to stop all the above if they could. The differences boil down to where people would rank the various evils on their own personal chart, which is a pretty weak basis for trying to gain an upper moral ground.

P.S. Thanks Jeff, I hadn't seen this thread 'til just now.

Thunderbunny, can you at least edit your post to put in whatever your point is and not that of some random journalist?

Until we know the real intentions of the shooter, we won't really know his real motivations until more information comes out. He could be just some wacko out for publicity, he could be an LGBT person with a grudge against Christian lobbying groups, or maybe even a right wing agitator trying to smear the LGBT community so that right-wing Christians can claim victim-hood.

But, with all the vitriol and anti-gay lobbying coming from Christian right-wing political groups against the LGBT community, I'm surprised someone hasn't snapped earlier. When hate and repression are fomented and targeted against one group of people, emotions will run high and someone's going to get pissed. I'm not advocating this type of violent behavior, I'm just surprised something hasn't happened before now.

tunnelcat wrote:or maybe even a right wing agitator trying to smear the LGBT community so that right-wing Christians can claim victim-hood.

bull★■◆● why do you even attempt to bring forward such crap???

But, with all the vitriol and anti-gay lobbying coming from Christian right-wing political groups against the LGBT community, I'm surprised someone hasn't snapped earlier. When hate and repression are fomented and targeted against one group of people, emotions will run high and someone's going to get pissed. I'm not advocating this type of violent behavior, I'm just surprised something hasn't happened before now.

yes, yes, yes, we all know it's ONLY the right that spews vitriol, why is it TC that your posts are always so disingenuous.

I'm getting really tired of hearing about these things like they're ok. I'd just like to say that the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender "community" is one ****ed up "community". Those are some people with serious issues. Hey, how's the child molestation community doing these days, or haven't they made it to community-hood yet?

Frankly if the "LGBT community" weren't trying to so hard to portray themselves as exemplary members of society instead of people with some real disturbing issues, conservatives wouldn't ever need to be on the defensive. Good God.

Thorne, what level of 'disturbing issues' mark the LGBT community(no quotes needed) that other communities wouldn't have? Why don't they have a right to be considered a community? You want issues? Talk to the loons that think a Museum of Creationism with man and dinosaur co-existing like something out of the Flintstones. Actually, don't bother, just accept that merely because people fall outside your 'norm', doesn't invalidate their issues or need for community. Note that I am saying these things as a non member of the LGBT community, just an old maried hetero guy with a bit of empathy.......

Hey, I'm got a bit of empathy too, it's just not a vague empathy that chooses not to take sides in a cultural issue that has been mis-frames, mis-informed, and fought amiss against your average well-adjusted individual trying to live life the best that they can with a healthy aversion to numerous aberrant behaviors.

1) I never said their issues were not valid.
2) You don't need to go much further than the name itself to find the disturbing issues.
3) Aberrant behavior doesn't want (European slang) a community. A community implies support and reinforcement.
4) It falls so far out of my "norm" that it falls into the area of life that contains everything that you don't want to be involved in, and that you wouldn't want for your children or anyone you care about.
5) The Creation Museum... no dice.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'm getting really tired of hearing about these things like they're ok. I'd just like to say that the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender "community" is one ****ed up "community". Those are some people with serious issues. Hey, how's the child molestation community doing these days, or haven't they made it to community-hood yet?

you're going to couple the LGBT community.. with child molestation.

man, what kind of drug-induced hallucination causes one make THAT kind of a leap? wait, no never mind, I think i know. it's a religious thing.

That sort of bigotry really is nearly unfathomable. You know what Jesus would do, Thorne? The exact opposite of what you're doing. "Christian" my ass.

CUDA wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:or maybe even a right wing agitator trying to smear the LGBT community so that right-wing Christians can claim victim-hood.

**** why do you even attempt to bring forward such crap???

Why not? I'm sure that agitation like this has gone on all through human history. Infiltration and agitation commonly happened during the union fights in the 1930's. It was a popular way to either rile up the workers, or sway people's opinions in favor of business against the workers. It's probably happening on both sides in our presidential campaign today. Agitprop and infiltration is a highly effective way to use charged emotions to fight back against your opponent. I do find it highly unlikely in this case, but you never know.

CUDA wrote:

But, with all the vitriol and anti-gay lobbying coming from Christian right-wing political groups against the LGBT community, I'm surprised someone hasn't snapped earlier. When hate and repression are fomented and targeted against one group of people, emotions will run high and someone's going to get pissed. I'm not advocating this type of violent behavior, I'm just surprised something hasn't happened before now.

yes, yes, yes, we all know it's ONLY the right that spews vitriol, why is it TC that your posts are always so disingenuous.

OK, give me examples from the LGBT community, other than this most recent example, that they have used the fear of violence and death, or actual murder, against their opposition? I can cite examples until I'm blue in the face naming cases of anti-abortion nutcases killing and maiming people, all in the name of their cause, but almost none in reverse. I could also cite unending cases of gay bashing that lead to injury or even death against gay, or even perceived gay individuals, but almost none the other way against Christians. Don't lay that "The other side is just as bad" crap on me. It's not even close by a long shot.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'm getting really tired of hearing about these things like they're ok. I'd just like to say that the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender "community" is one ****ed up "community". Those are some people with serious issues. Hey, how's the child molestation community doing these days, or haven't they made it to community-hood yet?

Frankly if the "LGBT community" weren't trying to so hard to portray themselves as exemplary members of society instead of people with some real disturbing issues, conservatives wouldn't ever need to be on the defensive. Good God.

And you have just bolstered my point with your ignorance, loathing and fear of something you have absolutely no understanding about.

You all are incredible.

I'll tell you something, Top Gun. When you meet the Son of God it'll shake you to your core, and it'll likely be too damn late. "Christian my ass" isn't too far off, but I have the advantage of seeing what's written plainly on the pages of scripture when I look at it. God's people cast the perverted persons out of the country under the old covenant. It's not good to call right wrong and wrong right. It troubles me that LGBT is spoken of as being acceptable. And why? Did you all really come up believing this, or do you just accept it because it's the thing to do--because if you don't you're a bigot? I feel sorry for you if you can't even tell how screwed up it is, because that says a lot about where you're at and it's not a good place to be.

EDIT: This medium being what it is you'll probably end up thinking I have some kind of a personal vendetta against individuals who fall under the LGBT banner (it's always been the assumption in the past). Nothing could be further from the truth. I would just as soon live and let live, but you've got to draw the line where the line is drawn or it's ugly for everyone. Legislation or force is not the solution for these folks, but the wholesale acceptable of perversion is symptomatic of a much bigger problem, and itself is certainly harmful. I don't know, maybe most of you have known nothing else. I'm telling you, it's a big deal.

On a salvation note, the kingdom of God almost certainly has a different approach to the subject than direct confrontation and warfare with men who are taken captive and have had their minds darkened, but it certainly does not serve any purpose to suffer under lies and evil inventions en-route.

son of god huh?

well, if you look at all the religions, even casually, they all say you'll endure some sort of eternal punishment if you don't worship THEIR god. So I think it's safe to say that no matter what religion any of us worships, we're all going to hell.

I'll be there with George Carlin
[youtube]6RT6rL2UroE[/youtube]

Wonderful, Ferno. I was talking to Top Gun. He brought it up. You can stop trolling now.

tunnelcat wrote:

CUDA wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:or maybe even a right wing agitator trying to smear the LGBT community so that right-wing Christians can claim victim-hood.

**** why do you even attempt to bring forward such crap???

Why not? I......... I do find it highly unlikely in this case, but you never know.

because your comment was pure and simple a troll and it had no point in the conversation except to try and place blame somewhere else then where it belonged. and you know it

OK, give me examples from the LGBT community, other than this most recent example, that they have used the fear of violence and death, or actual murder, against their opposition? I can cite examples until I'm blue in the face naming cases of anti-abortion nutcases killing and maiming people, all in the name of their cause, but almost none in reverse. I could also cite unending cases of gay bashing that lead to injury or even death against gay, or even perceived gay individuals, but almost none the other way against Christians. Don't lay that "The other side is just as bad" crap on me. It's not even close by a long shot.

I wont argue with you. but your comments once again had nothing to do with the topic and was a direct attempt to show your unabashed hatred for the Christian community

NO ONE until YOU mentioned the religious aspect had brought it into this discussion. this guy started shooting because he didn't like their political position. please try for once to put the blame where it belongs.. with the shooter.

Disingenuous

......dude had 15 Chick-Fil-A sandwiches in his bag. Funny. Sick, but still funny.......at least the victim wasn't killed, so that is good news out of this whole incident. As for Thorne's 'religious' rant to justify intolerance of others, who are merely living as God made them to live, well, that's just sad. One would hope that Jesus, were he physically present, would step out of character and kick the ass of anyone who thinks like that, but I suspect he would just shake his head sadly, look upward and say, "forgive them, they know not what they do.....".

CUDA wrote:**** why do you even attempt to bring forward such crap???

Because I wouldn't put it past some agitator, Christian or not. You'll notice that the guy didn't kill anyone, and the one guard who was shot was slightly wounded in the arm. A very preferable outcome, but kind of restrained don't you think for someone who went in with several fully loaded clips? But I've only thought of this scenario because of my tin hat.

But since Christian groups are spending millions to frame their side of the argument, I wouldn't put it past some of these guys to try something like this. These organizations are a self loathing and hateful lot of people with the power and money to go after other people they perceive as deviants deserving of death. Nice Christian values. By the way, there are no large, massively funded groups in Washington, like The Family Research Counsel and Focus on the Family, that are largely dedicated to the outright stigmatization and repression of another group of people in our society. I don't see anything near that in organization from the LGBT community. Oh, they have their activists and small groups, but not the monetary clout and power base that these Christian-based groups wield. There is the HRC, but they tend to be underfunded and tepid with their activism.

CUDA wrote:I wont argue with you. but your comments once again had nothing to do with the topic and was a direct attempt to show your unabashed hatred for the Christian community.

NO ONE until YOU mentioned the religious aspect had brought it into this discussion. this guy started shooting because he didn't like their political position. please try for once to put the blame where it belongs.. with the shooter.

Disingenuous

So what was the shooter's political position? He didn't like their politicking and lobbying and he was supposedly a member of the LGBT community. Most members of that community also know full well who their adversaries are AND their religious affiliations. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

Sergeant Thorne chimed in with his "Christian values" too, although after I made my comment. And whenever gay issues crop up in any discussion, comments on those preferred Christian values from scripture won't be far behind.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'll tell you something, Top Gun. When you meet the Son of God it'll shake you to your core, and it'll likely be too damn late. "Christian my ass" isn't too far off, but I have the advantage of seeing what's written plainly on the pages of scripture when I look at it. God's people cast the perverted persons out of the country under the old covenant. It's not good to call right wrong and wrong right. It troubles me that LGBT is spoken of as being acceptable. And why? Did you all really come up believing this, or do you just accept it because it's the thing to do--because if you don't you're a bigot? I feel sorry for you if you can't even tell how screwed up it is, because that says a lot about where you're at and it's not a good place to be.

I swear you take more trips down Rabbit holes then anyone I've ever met.

YOU introduced the religious aspect into this conversation where there was none, and now you want to try and say "well well Thorne did it too"
YOU try to pin the blame for this mans action on Christians. and yet you have no connection except that which you chose to fabricate. because FYI it's not just some Christians that have a problem with the gay lifestyle.
YOU continue to slander Christians every attempt you can in subjects where there is no connection just to satisfy your need to do so.

I dont know what happened in your past to make you hate like you do but I've got some words of wisdom for you

It's the hardest thing to give away
And the last thing on your mind today
It always goes to those that don't deserve

It's the opposite of how you feel
When the pain they caused is just to real
It takes everything you have just to say the word...

Forgiveness

It flies in the face of all your pride
It moves away the mad inside
It's always anger's own worst enemy
Even when the jury and the judge
Say you gotta right to hold a grudge
It's the whisper in your ear saying 'Set It Free'

Forgiveness,

It'll clear the bitterness away
It can even set a prisoner free
There is no end to what it's power can do
So, let it go and be amazed
By what you see through eyes of grace
The prisoner that it really frees is you

Forgiveness,

callmeslick wrote:As for Thorne's 'religious' rant to justify intolerance of others, who are merely living as God made them to live, well, that's just sad. One would hope that Jesus, were he physically present, would step out of character and kick the ass of anyone who thinks like that, but I suspect he would just shake his head sadly, look upward and say, "forgive them, they know not what they do.....".

I'd like to know where you get your religious delusions. You have two problems. Your first is that you must prove that "God made them to live" like that, and I know that you have no grounds for such a claim. Second, no matter what "one" would hope, you also have no grounds for Jesus' feelings on the subject of human sexuality conveniently mirroring popular opinion in our time of sexual promiscuity and "freedom". Some of you can be so ignorant. Jesus isn't just conveniently whatever you want him to be. There is a documented history of his actions and words. Read it for Christ's sake (pun intended). The truth is that the LGBT community would absolutely hate Jesus, because he would be freeing homosexuals and the like, and it would absolutely drive the rest of them mad.

I try to stay out of moral issues because I believe God to be the only true judge, but, does anyone here disagree that homosexuality is a deviation from the norm? I agree with the decision to normalize it, all things considered.

ST wrote:It troubles me that LGBT is spoken of as being acceptable. And why? Did you all really come up believing this, or do you just accept it because it's the thing to do--because if you don't you're a bigot?

I can't speak for everyone, but for the people--including Christians--who I've seen switch sides on this issue, it often happens after working with a gay coworker or making friends with a gay person, often being unaware at first that that person even is gay. I don't know what the thought process is exactly, and I'm sure it varies greatly with each person, but maybe that if choice of sleeping partner gender were so morally relevant in one's life, then how could that choice be a secret.

flip wrote:I try to stay out of moral issues because I believe God to be the only true judge, but, does anyone here disagree that homosexuality is a deviation from the norm?

What kind of norm? A statistical norm? I agree that being gay is statistically less likely than not, but so is giving at least 10% of one's income to charity.

ST wrote:It troubles me that LGBT is spoken of as being acceptable. And why? Did you all really come up believing this, or do you just accept it because it's the thing to do--because if you don't you're a bigot?

no, it has nothing to do with not being viewed as a bigot, it has everything to do with treating them like.. people.

we went through this already in history, treating blacks as second class people, then the Chinese as second class people, and i'm seeing some immigrants being treated as second class people.

Let's try to buck that trend for once, okay?