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Broader considerations of space exploration (split)

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:45 am
by Sergeant Thorne
This topic deviation has been split from the original topic, 200 years of space exploration.
200 years of space exploration - Roid wrote:This was a great post spelling out the possible path the next 200 years of space exploration will take. Which will take us to the level where we as a species are spread over the solar system, with permanent settlement on the moon, mars, venus, the moons of Jupiter, the asteroid belt... and are approaching the viablity of sending off interstellar missions to other stars systems.
Seems like a pretty plausible schedule eh.

"Stephen Ashworth sits in at Centauri Dreams to riff on a big question: How are we going to build the Solar System-wide infrastructure we need to launch an eventual interstellar mission?"
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=24996
A scenario for the ten-billion-times growth factor

Within this middle way scenario, I would envisage the following sequence of events for the future of manned spaceflight merging into Solar System colonisation.

1. Government exploration missions to low Earth orbit, and establishment of an outpost there. (Now complete.)

2. Based on the exploration in step 1, private enterprise now markets low Earth orbit for commercial passenger spaceflight, dominated by space tourism but also featuring commercial space manufacturing and university-funded science, and creates a growing, economically self-sustaining low Earth orbit infrastructure. (Now just beginning, and dependent upon SKYLON-type vehicles for full success. Expect this phase to unfold during the 2020s, with ultimately thousands of passengers flying to orbit and back every week.)

3. As low Earth orbit becomes more populated and costs of access fall, a market will appear for lunar flyby trips (Space Adventures has announced it already has one committed client for a flight around 2015). These are best satisfied by adapting existing space hotel designs for injection into Earth-Moon cycler orbits, thus ensuring that full solar flare protection, repair facilities and buffers of consumables can be built up in cislunar space. (Late 2020s to 2030s.)

4. The growing space hotel system and the demand for translunar propellants create a large-scale market for volatiles, especially water, in orbit which can be satisfied by robotic mining of the near-Earth asteroids; again, government exploration, in this case robotic asteroid exploration, will be needed to develop the technologies towards commercial sustainability. (2030s to 2040s.)

5. Based on the infrastructure in steps 2, 3 and 4, governments, singly or in collaboration, now launch new exploration missions to the Moon very much more economically than could have been achieved with an Apollo-style system, and establish one or more outposts there. (2050s.)

6. Based on the infrastructure in steps 2, 3 and 4, the construction of solar power satellites to serve Earth now becomes economically attractive, and the conversion of Earth from fossil fuels to solar power begins. (2030s to 2050s.)

7. Based on the exploration in step 5, private enterprise now markets the Moon for commercial passenger spaceflight, dominated by space tourism but also featuring lunar surface science, and creates a growing, economically self-sustaining lunar surface infrastructure. (2060s.)

8. Based on the infrastructure in steps 2, 3 and 4, government now launches exploration missions to Mars and Venus, and establishes outposts there. (2080s.)

9. Based on the exploration in step 8, private enterprise now markets Mars and Venus for commercial passenger spaceflight, dominated by science and colonisation. Interplanetary transport will use a network of cycler stations based on several decades of experience with Earth-Moon cycler stations. (Into the 2100s.)

10. Outposts on Mars and Venus grow into colonies, and meanwhile the cycler stations also grow into substantial transit cities, supplied from asteroids rather than from Earth. (First half of the 22nd century.)

11. Based on the existing interplanetary infrastructure, government now launches exploration missions to the Main Asteroid Belt, Jupiter and further afield. (Mid-22nd century.)

12. Based on the exploration in step 11 and several decades of experience operating interplanetary cycler stations, private enterprise sets up mining and construction ventures in the Main Asteroid Belt to create self-sufficient colonies there. New cycler stations link these colonies with the inner planets. (Mid-22nd century.)

13. At the same time, private enterprise sets up cycler stations to serve Jupiter and Saturn, serving growing colonies on the respective giant planets’ moons and among the Jupiter Trojan asteroids. (Late 22nd century.)

14. The interplanetary economy is now growing independently of Earth, but at the same time the commerce (material, energy, information) between the colonies and Earth enriches civilisation at all locations. (The state of play at 1 January 2200.)

This scenario thus completes the transformation of civilisation from monoplanetary to multiplanetary status, and sets up the conditions under which economic and population growth may now proceed without interruption until the limits of the carrying capacity of the Solar System are reached.

(cont...)
Snoopy wrote:P.S. I'm also skeptical. I think we under estimate the awesome wealth of resources that the earth is compared to space/asteroids/the moon. Like I said, I'd love to see it happen, but the pessimist in me doubts we'll ever colonize anywhere off of this planet.
I agree with that. As romantic an idea space exploration and colonization is, I think dreaming of civilization's expansion beyond earth only demonstrates people's ability to rage against that which is plainly obvious. The Earth has everything we need, while in space or on another planet 99% of what we need to survive would need to be artificially created and, more importantly, shipped in, which includes breathable air (to be fair the percentage of things shipped in or artificially created has become quite high in some places here on Earth). It could be done, I think, but I believe it will always be found to be a great difficulty, while on earth survival is possible even for the most unsophisticated.

I believe that humanity will be called into judgment before it has a chance to colonize any other planet. Things have gotten pretty bad. Is it OK to kill an unborn child? Ok to change partners throughout life, at whatever rate? Ok to lie and cheat? Ok not to honor your Father and Mother? People don't even like to believe in any standards, things have gotten so bad. To get along you don't judge what anyone else is doing except by an ever-shifting popular standard. And then there are people on this earth who make evil decisions which impact or destroy countless lives for the achievement of their own high-minded, selfish or idealistic goals. The human race is such a moral ★■◆●-up, that anyone who turns a blind eye to it and dreams of our next step in evolution or a new era of peace and technological freedom is definitely in REM mode. I have met very few people in my life that would give me hope for the human race's advancement, and anyone I've met who isn't stupid is usually what I would call "high-minded", which means they're the same corrupt people, but they dress it up with more complexity.

Incidentally the Bible shortcuts this kind of examination. A person could believe the Bible and save 10-20 years of fighting to be honest about our situation while learning the ugly truth of it. During that 10-20 years most people find a livable comfort zone and opt-out of the truth in favor of a level of self-deception which makes the whole thing bearable/comfortable. I've been tempted to do it consciously. Most people do it unconsciously.

Re: the next 200 years of space exploration

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:56 am
by Isaac
I'm here to make judgement on mankind... B+... Now get into space.

Re: the next 200 years of space exploration

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:43 am
by roid
Sergeant Thorne wrote:The Earth has everything we need, while in space or on another planet 99% of what we need to survive would need to be artificially created and, more importantly, shipped in...
TBH i'd like to ship myself out, i'd like to get far away from a lot of you :].
Since ecological conservatives and Gaia worshippers will opt out of leaving the planet, it's win win for those of us who do leave, yet again.

Re: the next 200 years of space exploration

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:11 am
by Sergeant Thorne
LOL I'm not talking about grading, I'm talking about what's going around coming around... for good. Anyone who's read the Bible, ignoring the picturesque fantasies coming from most pulpits, may know that the Bible speaks of a time when man is allowed (forced, from certain quarters) to get as bad as man can get, and then comes the final judgment on man's rebellion against God.

Back on topic, I think the OP quote is pretty thin. It's an extraordinarily shallow treatment of the subject, riding on fantasy. I mean, enjoy it for what it is, if that's your cup of tea, but this, in my mind, is equivalent to Moses theorizing about the eventual growth and evolution of the software market.
4. The growing space hotel system and the demand for translunar propellants create a large-scale market for volatiles, especially water, in orbit which can be satisfied by robotic mining of the near-Earth asteroids; again, government exploration, in this case robotic asteroid exploration, will be needed to develop the technologies towards commercial sustainability. (2030s to 2040s.)
Mining near-Earth asteroids? For water?

Edit: A lot of me? ;)

Re: the next 200 years of space exploration

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:20 am
by Alter-Fox
Sergeant Thorne wrote: Mining near-Earth asteroids? For water?
Or we could just use these guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UHTH7VlrNs :P

Re: the next 200 years of space exploration

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:58 am
by Isaac
Sergeant Thorne wrote:.....Anyone who's read the Bible.....may know that the Bible speaks of a time when...... the final judgment on man's rebellion against God....

no

Re: the next 200 years of space exploration

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:16 am
by Sergeant Thorne
As cool as your signature is, I'm going to have to disagree with the premise of your argument.

Re: 200 years of space exploration bible derail split

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:43 pm
by Isaac
I believe that humanity will be called into judgment before it has a chance to colonize any other planet. Things have gotten pretty bad.
Let's not turn this into another endless debate on religion vs science. Instead let's take a different direction, by posting stories or pictures about what we find godlike in nature. Let's watch out doom in awe.



http://i.imgur.com/QnMOm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TW8hX.jpg

Re: 200 years of space exploration bible derail split

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:48 pm
by Spidey
I guess you could call that last one “God’s Gonads”

Re: 200 years of space exploration bible derail split

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:52 pm
by Isaac
God's would be bigger. Those are Chuck Norris'.

God's wrath in ash form: http://i.imgur.com/4cAA5.png

Water: http://i.imgur.com/aSTYa.jpg


God could crack the world and send chunks flying in all directions. I wonder what would happen to the atmosphere. I guess a little would stay for each chunk. Maybe some life would continue..

Re: 200 years of space exploration bible derail split

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:55 am
by Isaac
Some space science and religion: http://i.imgur.com/pfWD9.jpg