DescentBB

Just purchased this game today (February 19, 2013) via GameStop.

Now it is installed... next step get Steam to recognize it and to get my joystick configuration issues resolved for my Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 joystick on steering and possibly weapons usage in Retrovirus.

So far the Nose Down and Nose Up are working on the Y Axis but not the turn left and turn right using the X Axis.

I played in the Alpha Demo and was hooked... seems that they really restricted the joystick configurations at the Release time... it worked perfectly in the Alpha Demo for me.

Supposedly we will eventually get to "Trichord" in Retrovirus... Wheeeeeee!!!

Why is it so important to you guys that anything 6DoF is trichordable? Is it just a case of "if it's not like Descent then I don't want it" like what happened with D3?
I don't think so. To put it another way when I'm reading Steam discussion forums for, say, Half Life 2, (or TF2, that might be more comparable; being multiplayer) I don't see old-school Doom fans demanding Valve include straferunning. But when I go to KSH's web site, or Cadenza's, there's always someone who mentions trichording and its lack of being there, even Mobius griped a little about it! I'd be willing to bet a lot of money, if I had a lot of money and someone to bet it with, that the first mod made for Miner Wars will be trichording.

And I don't think it's a case of "you can't like it if there isn't trichording". Because you said you enjoyed the Retrovirus alpha demo... So... what? Is trichording like a substance addiction?
Personally I couldn't care less about trichording but that's... me. And we all know I'm odd.

If Retrovirus becomes trichordable without it being optional will it even get any new blood for us to virtually devour? Or will today's gamers be turned off by the learning curve and Cadenza go bankrupt?
And why does my keyboard keep deciding I want to speak Chinese?

Calling trichording an addiction is actually a pretty accurate description.

Exactly. It just doesn't feel right without it. I'm pretty certain it will be in one of the first RV mods, though; it's just a matter of time.

Chording gives the game an extra dimension. It's not just about going 1.7x your forward speed, it's about those extra movements you can make. Roll 45 degrees and use two strafe controls to dodge something laterally faster than you could normally, circle around an opponent faster to get a better angle, stuff like that. It's one thing I've noticed since coming back is that the better players in Descent 3 have mastered chording in smaller movements, so that they can get you in their sights faster while staying out of yours. It's something I've been working on improving, and am learning I have a lot of improvement to do yet.

Also, to me, it's about realism. When you go forward, strafe up, and strafe left, you don't have a thruster specifically for that case that propels you in that direction, you have three thrusters working in tandem to propel you in that direction. The additional movement speed becomes natural for a ship with that kind of movement system. In Retrovirus, it almost makes sense to NOT have trichording, because you're not using thrusters - or anything physical for that matter - to move around. Both games make sense to me, even if RV feels a little slow because of it. Yeah, I'll be happy if they add it, but it doesn't NEED it, at least not before it needs other things such as keyboard ramping (so I can use the inject ) or server-disabled mouselook (sorry, mousers ).

I think the game needs higher speeds. Could be added by getting rid of the vector clipping or increasing the translational speeds. Either way is fine w/ me, altho naturally I would prefer the chording change

+1 on the mouselook-disable option !

As a mouser myself I agree that mouselook probably ought to be disabled for optimum results... it kind of makes it too easy.

It occurred to me recently that part of what gives Descent its feel is that it is very "arcade"y, if that makes any sense. No class system, no skill trees, no leveling system, no customized weapon loadouts, no customized ship equipment. Just you, in a ship that holds a boatload of weapons, against hordes of robots. You can grab the controls and jump into the game in a couple seconds without having to think any harder than "destroy everything that moves". All the depth of the game comes from the varying degrees that people can handle the ship and the weapons they are given, not from any actual depth of the game design (which was paper thin in descent).

I agree that mouselook-disabling would be a good idea.
I don't think the agent even has thrusters... besides, is realism really a realistic idea when you're playing as a piece of computer code flying around programs in an operating system?

Chording gives the game an extra dimension...

Is it really an extra dimension? Or is it replacing the dimension that would have been there otherwise?
I mean, in Descent it's pretty hard to win if you can't trichord (I know, I'm one to talk, but Iike I said I just don't care enough about winning ). If you're going to be competitive you're going to trichord to the exclusion of whatever other dimension Descent (or hypothetical other game) may have had.

When chording is in the game, it invariably becomes the game. Like a cancer cell multiplying until the entire body is nothing but a container for tumors.

The only thing lost when learning to trichord is the inability to move as quickly as all the people who are already using trichording.

That is my point. Why would you ever use the normal movement again? Trichording has become your normal movement; it's become the same "dimension" of the game instead of adding a new one. Nothing new about it. At least from the psychology perspective.

It's the same as upgrading your lasers in a singleplayer game, you're not going to decide "oh, I want to go back to level 1 lasers for a while, even though I have quad 6s and they're so much more powerful". Unless you're trying to challenge yourself.

Chording is hardly a cancer. It's a game mechanic.

It's also one that Retrovirus doesn't have, and, at least to me, is one of the things that makes the game feel slow. That is only my opinion, but I am still okay with the game not having it.

One of the mechanics that RV has that Descent does not, however... and this rarely gets talked about... is the fact that you can turn independent of your movement vector with the boost control. Find a direction you want to go in, hold down the afterburner boost key, and then turn your ship. I haven't tried to figure this out yet, but I'd be willing to bet my black pyro* it's going to be something where those who do figure it out will get a step up on those who don't.

Kind of like Descent players who learn to trichord vs. those that don't.

* I only use the BP in Subway Dancer, so that won't be much of a loss for me.

Cancer was an analogy and a joke . Not a metaphor...

The point was, it's essentially an upgrade mechanic. You don't go back to the old once you've learned the new, which is why I wouldn't call it a new dimension. Maybe we should take this to PM?

I've already figured out how to use the boost. I play around with it on multiplayer servers because I can never find anyone to fight!
Your posts have footnotes and that's awesome.

Next multiplayer bash is scheduled for Saturday at noon PST. Last one was last night at 8 PM PST. Had about 15 people across two servers, went for about 1 1/2 hours.

Finally fixed my setup.

Had a frames per second (FPS) issue which would cause the Worm to never enter the computer but by reducing the frame size it doubled the FPS and let the Worm enter.

The Joystick controls took some tweaking but it now works more like what I need.

Only 1 problem remaining... getting Steam to recognize the game as "registered".

Played the first 2 levels and it takes me back to some of my favorite Descent memories.

Not totally comfortable with everything yet... but it is a lot of fun!

Single player is very comparable to the way Descent's single player played. I loved the campaign, even if it dragged on at times. The last level was totally awesome to play through.

I don't know if they're doing it anymore, but PM Rex to see if you can get your license converted to a Steam license. They were doing it for preorders, but I'm not sure about after.

Tri-chording isn't a "win" button. You still have to hit people, and they can still make that difficult for you. Unless the weapons are hitscan, in which case I'm probably not interested, but at least in D1/2 there was a lot more to the game than being fast, and I'm pretty sure there was in D3 as well...

I'm not suggesting it's a "win" button, but I am suggesting that pilots that use chording have a leg up on those who do not with all other things considered equal.

RV does have two hitscan type weapons. There's the inject, which is essentially a mass driver without knockback, and one of the upgrades on the dual-strike makes it hitscan as well. D3, of course, has the mass driver.

Regarding my comment on RV being a "slow" game, it's more than just the lack of chording. Turn rates (at least for keyboard) are slower despite zero keyboard ramping (love playing D3 immediately after RV, I overturn my ship for like five minutes and have to readjust to D3's faster turn speed), plus there is a noticeable difference in the game's scale compared to Descent that I find myself unable to describe adequately... it's just different and makes me feel like I'm swimming through molasses at times.

Hehehe. Setting the FOV to 72 in RV helps a bit

I forgot to try that. I'll do that now.

Looks like this needs a thread split..

Roncli,

I did get a message from Rex on the Retrovirus Forums then sent him the e-mail and now Steam has Retrovirus registered.

Had a FPS issue that has been resolved... at the first level the Worm wouldn't enter the screen... now it is working. Was getting perhaps 8 to 10 FPS now working at about 14 to 18 FPS.

FOV is set to max for me at the moment... I love that setting!

Retrovirus is Loads of fun.

Wheeeeeee!

roncli wrote:Next multiplayer bash is scheduled for Saturday at noon PST. Last one was last night at 8 PM PST. Had about 15 people across two servers, went for about 1 1/2 hours.

Darn, I was in a conference call for 3 hours with one of the dev teams I'm on. The conference started at the same time as the game.
Next time I guess.

Having loads of fun playing Retrovirus.

Glad that we finally have a new game that plays similar to what we have had in Descent for many many years! (1994, 1995, and 1999... and beyond)

One really cool thing is that after you have completed a level then go back to the list of levels, you will see how much of it you completed.

The team on this game did an excellent job on Retrovirus!

Yes, I am addicted!

I'd like to try this Retrovirus game but sorry if I fall under the trichording is awesome camp. It is basically the game.

I think there is a little misunderstanding of speeds. Yes you are holding two strafe directions simultaneously a lot but there is lots of accidental and knowledgeable use of just one strafe button being pressed. If you are using keys as part of the config look down while you dogfight and you realize you are lifting up on one direction momentarily very frequently, giving more subtle speed change than you might realize.

People are so...
If you want to decide that you'll never get what you want, well, good for you. That's why they call it a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's still plenty possible to enjoy Retrovirus without trichording. I should know, I never trichord in Descent in the first place!

I've heard a lot about you but you haven't heard anything about me.

Welcome, I'm the DBB's pet cat.

If you have ever used a slide while moving forward or backward in Descent, you've been chording. Saying you have never done it is pretty silly when it actually takes considerable effort to NOT do it.

I didn't say anything about chording in general. Only the specific kind of chording that this community can get obsessed with.
Read my post again .

Besides, you knew what I meant.

I don't mind the vector clipping that much, since there is another skill to master -- RV's afterburner is quite different from D3 ...

I think a key point to make is that you can still trichord in Retrovirus: it just doesn't give you the speed boost that it did in Descent.

Alter-Fox wrote:People are so...
If you want to decide that you'll never get what you want, well, good for you. That's why they call it a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's still plenty possible to enjoy Retrovirus without trichording. I should know, I never trichorded in Descent in the first place!

I've heard a lot about you but you haven't heard anything about me.

Welcome, I'm the DBB's pet cat.

Are you the game maker or something? Kind of a defensive response.

It sounds like a cool game to check out regardless. Sounds like you sold yourself and descent short by not discovering trichording, bummer.

No I'm not one of the devs.
I tried to be, but they didn't need anyone else.

I just don't think we're going to see trichording in very many future 6DoF games because it's a barrier to entry into competitive play. I'm glad you can enjoy these games regardless. What I hate seeing is people saying "there's no trichording, so I won't even try the game." Even in Descent there's plenty to enjoy besides trichording!
When this community actually gets a 6DoF game, it can seem a little bit obsessive...

That aside, Retrovirus is supposed to be moddable by the end of this month. I would be very surprised if the first mod ever made won't be trichording and nothing else.

If you had learned to tri-chord, you would understand why. I still encourage you to do so.

I play other games besides descent so of course a game can still be good without trichording. But if it is left out we'll always miss it. You will too if you learn how to do so!

I have learned how to use it. I finally taught myself last year. Because of certain people not leaving me alone about it...
And nobody expected me to say that, btw. I know that definitively.
I just don't do it unless I really need that extra speed. Which is statistically never. I don't need to use it for normal movement, because I have all those other combat skills that I had to develop when I didn't learn to trichord right away. In the time I could have been using for studying even more psychology ..

I still don't get what makes it so great, apart from the speed boost. And the speed boost is something that could just get factored into the base movement; just make the base movement speed 1.78 times (or whatever it was) faster than D3's. Or D1's or D2's if you want to go that way.
After all, when everyone (I don't count, I'm just the pet ferret) trichords in Descent multiplayer anyway, you end up with the same level playing field that you had before trichording. The only difference is that everyone's base speed of movement is nearly twice as fast. When everyone does it it isn't an advantage anymore, only a learning curve for new people.

Knowing that I will always miss something in any other game I care to play, to me, is a good enough reason to never learn it in the first place btw .

Dammit I derailed this thread again

If you aren't using it for normal movement, you're doing it wrong.

quit acting like you know something

Trichording is nothing more than a way of moving when vectoring (slide) is an option included with other standard movements inside of a game game

(film makers use it all the time to give the viewer a ethereal feeling on movement)

When some one says it's just for speed, then their mental logic is still locked into a linear motion and still has no grasp on true 6dof movement and combat. Why because they only know how to do it in a forward motion instead of all motions and all directions

I think you need to learn tricording backwards next my friend , then sideways, then upwards, then downwards, then while circle strafing .. Then and only then when you instinctively apply 3 vector(aka trichording) movement in everything you do shall the light come on.

Then when you'll appreciate and understand the true concept of vectoring, especially in up and coming games like star citizen and of course older games like D1,D2,D3

It's best to ignore AlterFox in this case.

He is obsessed with arguing against trichording, and those who value it. Despite his lack of understanding, in every thread he comes across (here, and in other forums) that mentions trichording, he jumps in and insists it's overrated and over-emphasized.

P.S. I've enjoyed Retrovirus, but its flight feels significantly different with its normalized thrust vectors and afterburner mechanic. It has never felt quite "right" to me.

I'd love to be able to pick up a multi game of Retrovirus. The mechanics seem like they'd make for some fun dogfights.

IMO*, I find it OK that there is no trichording. I have never figured it out, and I like the extra 4.9999999999999999999999999991342134245674674681363% challenge it adds. I really feel that trichording is unnessecary, and thus it is okay to have trichording being nonexistent.

*in my opinion

Sergeant Thorne attempts to smack some sense into LightWolf