Right, Left or whatever

[callmeslick]

....based on Spidey's comment that only one person on this board wouldn't see me as 'left wing', I'd love to find out.....

[Ferno]

I think you have your answer.

[callmeslick]

I think you have your answer.

what? That there's only 6 people on the board?

[Ferno]

well, six people that usually go here AND vote on polls.

[callmeslick]

hey, we actually got one person voting Far Left.......their head would explode if they actually encountered someone truly Far to the Left of the spectrum.
Hell, their head would likely explode if they simply talked to people in general, at, say, the mall or a Starbucks...... Reassuring that Left of Center is winning, because that strikes me as pretty fairminded. I might be more Centrist for the area in which I live, but if I were from a true Red State, that doesn't strike me the least bit odd. I was starting to worry when more than one person accused me of being on a mission to spread left-wing propaganda.
Anyone thinking that needs to read Mother Jones, any edition, from cover to cover and get back to me.

[callmeslick]

suggested reading:

http://www.motherjones.com/

now this might be APPROACHING far left, although not as far as the US spectrum gets......

[Pandora]

well, if you take it based on the standard of this board, you are clearly a lefty. But if you would see it from an european standard, you are very much in the centre. I cannot comment on the result based on an american standard, but this would differ by region anyways.

[callmeslick]

certainly, Pandora, the more liberal Americans would be considered center-right in most Euro countries.

[Tunnelcat]

I shudder what to think everyone here thinks my political slant is, although I can guess.

Personally, I think I'm a little right of callmeslick, but what's a political spectrum label in the wide scheme of things anyway.

[callmeslick]

as I tried to explain to Spidey, very few people are consistently conservative or liberal about everything, and, as you state, what does a political spectrum really mean anyway? For one thing, the traditional definitions of conservatism and liberalism are limited to the role of government and the nature of man, and have been warped over recent times. Secondly, I feel that folks tend to use the terms 'right' and 'left' or 'liberal' or whatever, when they wish to vilify someone who disagrees with their point of view. Pundits to the right of center have made hay since Reagan at demonizing 'liberals', 'progressives' or the like, and likewise, folks to the left of center tend to use 'right-winger' or 'Tea Partier' as pejoratives. My feeling is that most of the nation, probably over 80% fall close to the center of things, some a bit right, some a bit left. I'm ok with being described as 'left-of-center' but get alternately amused and annoyed by folks who wish to paint me as either a leftist or rightist bombthrower or propagandist, as I am neither......

[Will Robinson]

I see the way Spidey was using the term 'left' as how you measure up relative to actual voters in the most recent election cycle. In that context you definitely are left of center. Roughly one third are strongly in the base of the left and one third strongly in the base of the right and one third tend to waffle around. You never showed any sign of abandoning the democrat candidates and your posts/comments are in line with the left base..

How you stack up to the average German or Swede or an 1865 US republican really doesn't come in to play in most of our discussions here and I'm assuming it wasn't part of Spideys metric.

[callmeslick]

I think I am very close to the center of US political spectra, Will. Bear in mind, I have supported many, many moderate Republican candidates, am currently registered independant. No, I didn't veer from supporting Obama, but then again, he is a classic centrist, so that fits as well.

[Nightshade]

According to a 'political compass' test I took three years ago:

I'm almost as \"centrist\" as you can get on this graph.



Now those of you that thought I'm a racist nazi of some kind will either have a different opinion of me now or think this \"test\" is pretty bogus.

I'm thinking you'll go with the latter.

I wonder what kind of 'votes' I would get.

Maybe Slick should take the same 'political compass' test and post his results here.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[callmeslick]

I think I took that same test a few years back and ended up left-of center.....

yup-economic -3.14
social -4.0

close to center,but to the lower left side of center.

[Will Robinson]

Economic Left/Right: -1.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.05



These kind of tests are really weak because the creator has a preconceived notion of why I might answer pro or con and his guess as to what a pro answer means could be 180 degrees off base from my reason for it.

[callmeslick]

agreed, Will.......although the closeness of our scores is frightening!!

[Tunnelcat]

Well, I guess I'm left of callmeslick and definitely not center. I showed up as.....

economic -6.00

social -5.33

I think some of the questions should have a "no opinion" answer. The questions about corporations, religion, schools and abortion pegged me more leftie than the others I answered.

[Spidey]

Yea, my red dot always falls right on top of Gandhi…what a hoot, and wasn’t it one of our resident right wingers, that the test compared to Barbara S.…He He He

[CUDA]

I shudder what to think everyone here thinks my political slant is, although I can guess.

we'd need to add a category "institutionalized for the liberally insane"

[CUDA]

and FYI

[callmeslick]

freaking authoritarian.....
actually, what this resuscitated survey shows is how much more we, as Americans, have in common that one might think. Despite the divisive political rhetoric, MOST of us are on either side of the middle on that graph, albeit with shortcomings in the questions, etc.

[CobGobbler]

Slick, don't let these idiots get to you. Leftist, liberal, democrat, those are all titles that people on our side shy away from. Guys -- think being "conservative" is like wearing a badge of honor. As if it's some great honor to be a douchebag. I'm liberal and I'm ★■◆●ing proud of it. I don't apologize for believing that women should make as much as men, regardless of the impact on business. I don't apologize for wanting good education for all the citizens of my country. I don't apologize for advocating a livable minimum wage ($7.25 per hour is no where close to that). I gladly pay my taxes; I don't try to find every loophole to get out of paying for things that this country needs, i.e. bridges, roads, a smarter military.

The only thing where I wish I was conservative was child-bearing. Liberals tend to be more educated, and therefore do not have 10+ kids -- , so we're being out-bred. But for the rest of it? I am proud that I am on the right side of history. Eventually there will be marriage equality, it's only a matter of time. Bigots -- will be the small, vocal minority that live out their miserable days complaining that no one listened to them and the world will be just fine.

You don't need to do polls like this slick. -- When their boy was in office spending was fine, but now that the other team is playing, it is the worst thing in the world. Our side is winning, and will continue to do so. Had the House not been gerrymandered beyond belief, the Democrats would have won that as well. We received over a million more votes than they did, but somehow they kept it. The best they had was Mitt Romney, and even with all the troubles in the country today--and the single most defined election in history--their boy was handily defeated. We don't need a Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, to stop recounts for us. Their side can try as many messengers as they want, Romney, Christie, Rubio, etc. It's not the messenger, it's the message. Don't worry about what these still-sore losers say to you.

< moderator-edit > Personal shots removed.

[CUDA]

Liberals tend to be more educated, and therefore do not have 10+ kids like Cuda, so we're being out-bred.

did you really just go down that road??. and just to show your an absolute moron and have no clue what you're talking about.

stats on the 2010 midterm election






and FYI my family with kids, spouses, and grand-kids is at 19, and then you can add to that the 2 Foster kids that I've just added to my family. so make that 21. so FYI you can kiss my ass if you don't like it, in reality trolls like you don't matter squat to the rest of the world or to anyone else on this BB

those are all titles that people on our side shy away from.

I'm liberal and I'm ★■◆●ing proud of it

I thought you shy away from those titles??? or are you just so dense that you couldn't remember what you typed in the prior sentence???

[callmeslick]

Slick, don't let these idiots get to you.

if people on internet boards ever start to 'get to me', please, someone, take me aside gently and shoot me.

Leftist, liberal, democrat, those are all titles that people on our side shy away from. Guys like woodchip and Cuda think being "conservative" is like wearing a badge of honor. As if it's some great honor to be a douchebag. I'm liberal and I'm **** proud of it. I don't apologize for believing that women should make as much as men, regardless of the impact on business. I don't apologize for wanting good education for all the citizens of my country. I don't apologize for advocating a livable minimum wage ($7.25 per hour is no where close to that). I gladly pay my taxes; I don't try to find every loophole to get out of paying for things that this country needs, i.e. bridges, roads, a smarter military.

what is funny, Cob, is that what you describe, in classic political science terms, is conservative. Why? Because the classical conservative feels that man is inherently so bad that government is needed to bring out the good in society. That's sort of one of my core points in this thread; 'conservative' and 'liberal' have been so twisted around as to be essentially meaningless little badges, used with pride by some and as a negative brand by others.

You don't need to do polls like this slick.

of course, I don't.....I just do it because I enjoy seeing the variety of responses, and present them as a tongue-in-cheek exercises. I hope, above all else, that as few people as possible take them THAT seriously.

Spidey has been spouting the same **** for the last ten years, as has Will and woodchip. When their boy was in office spending was fine, but now that the other team is playing, it is the worst thing in the world. Our side is winning, and will continue to do so. Had the House not been gerrymandered beyond belief, the Democrats would have won that as well. We received over a million more votes than they did, but somehow they kept it. The best they had was Mitt Romney, and even with all the troubles in the country today--and the single most defined election in history--their boy was handily defeated. We don't need a Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, to stop recounts for us. Their side can try as many messengers as they want, Romney, Christie, Rubio, etc. It's not the messenger, it's the message. Don't worry about what these still-sore losers say to you.

heck, I tend to agree with all of this(save the Christie part, but he's clearly being curb-stomped by his own party). Time is on the side of the largely centrist message that we espouse, and some folks here despise. And that, the centrist part, is the other core message I am trying to convey. While far more 'left' of, say, Woody or Will or Thorne, my position is essentially in line with what most Americans believe. It is, thus, a largely CENTRIST message, and the 'liberal' nature of it is merely a reflection of society becoming enlightened over time.
Where I would strongly disagree with you is over your remarks, Cob, around 'breeding'. There, I feel you get mean spirited for the sake of simple mean-spiritedness. And that sort of thing advances nothing, really.

[Foil]

< moderator-hat > Members here are free to be as vehement as they'd like about anything at all, but the personal stuff does not belong. Keep it professional, guys.

[CUDA]

sorry foil. I tend to get testy when people take personal pot shots at me.

[CobGobbler]

Wasn't really a pot-shot, it's well known that conservative families tend to have more children. Look it up.

[Will Robinson]

Wasn't really a pot-shot, it's well known that conservative families tend to have more children. Look it up.

Well, you can't have the abortion and send it to school too....

[Spidey]

Wow…we must have more Republicans in Philly than anyone could have guessed.

JFTR…I have never said once that spending was fine, just because “My Boy” was in office…hell “My Boy” hasn’t been in office for decades.

[CUDA]

Wasn't really a pot-shot, it's well known that conservative families tend to have more children. Look it up.

as well know as your "facts" that Liberals are more educated then conservatives.

Oh and FYI while conservatives "might" have more kids at least they tend to pay for them themselves.

[callmeslick]

then, CUDA, explain why the Red states are the ones sucking at the national budget teat? My little Blue state gets 80% of it's tax money back in benefits, and conservative Alaska and Missisippi get back around 113%. Seems that, overall, conservatives don't pay their way without a lot of help from all of the rest of us.......

[CUDA]

link

[Spidey]

More stats without context?

A few years back, NE Philly filed a secession petition based on the fact that NE Philly didn’t receive the services compensatory to the tax base.

They produced thousands of documents for proof…I expect you to do the same…

[CUDA]

in billions, seems that 14 of the top 15 welfare recipient states are blue states. don't know where slick is getting his info


California $34.4 $24.4 $58.7
New York $9.8 $17.6 $27.4
Pennsylvania $8.2 $5.2 $13.4
Illinois $9.6 $3.0 $12.6
Texas $9.2 $3.0 $12.2
Ohio $7.2 $5.0 $12.1
New Jersey $9.2 $2.4 $11.5
Florida $6.6 $4.3 $10.9
Washington $6.6 $1.6 $8.2
Massachusetts $6.5 $1.7 $8.2
Michigan $5.2 $1.4 $6.5
Maryland $4.1 $1.5 $5.6
North Carolina $3.2 $2.3 $5.5
Minnesota $2.7 $2.4 $5.1
Wisconsin $2.7 $2.2 $4.9

[Foil]

Hm. Per-capita numbers?

[callmeslick]

bingo, Foil:
http://visualizingeconomics.com/blog/20 ... each-state


top 15 are a whos-who of Blue States.....except for Texas. But note, the 'takers' over 150%.......'conservative' in their imagination only, I guess....

[Jeff250]

in billions, seems that 14 of the top 15 welfare recipient states are blue states. don't know where slick is getting his info


California $34.4 $24.4 $58.7
New York $9.8 $17.6 $27.4
Pennsylvania $8.2 $5.2 $13.4
Illinois $9.6 $3.0 $12.6
Texas $9.2 $3.0 $12.2
Ohio $7.2 $5.0 $12.1
New Jersey $9.2 $2.4 $11.5
Florida $6.6 $4.3 $10.9
Washington $6.6 $1.6 $8.2
Massachusetts $6.5 $1.7 $8.2
Michigan $5.2 $1.4 $6.5
Maryland $4.1 $1.5 $5.6
North Carolina $3.2 $2.3 $5.5
Minnesota $2.7 $2.4 $5.1
Wisconsin $2.7 $2.2 $4.9

I'm going to assume that the first column represents the amount each state, in millions, gives to overseas charity; that the second column represents the amount each state, in millions, gives back to the federal government; and that the third column represents the amount, in millions, Cuda owes in gambling debts in each state. From this table, we can clearly see not only that blue states are so much cooler than red, but it also explains why Cuda's blue state gambling history causes him to hold such a strong grudge against these states.

[Spidey]

Again….stats without context…

Without knowing exactly where the money is going inside those states, there is no way to properly understand the stats.

Example:

Suppose a large amount of the money spent in Alaska is going to support the oil pipeline, then in fact the money is going to everyone’s benefit. Suppose the logistics of running a large mostly frozen state simply costs more money than others.

Where is the federal money going in Mississippi? Maybe it’s going to build docks and ships for the military.

All of this is conjecture, only to make a point.

[Will Robinson]

Again….stats without context…

Without knowing exactly where the money is going inside those states, there is no way to properly understand the stats.

Example:

Suppose a large amount of the money spent in Alaska is going to support the oil pipeline, then in fact the money is going to everyone’s benefit. Suppose the logistics of running a large mostly frozen state simply costs more money than others.

Where is the federal money going in Mississippi? Maybe it’s going to build docks and ships for the military.

All of this is conjecture, only to make a point.

Exactly.
And how much is congressional pork to buy votes....sometimes to buy the single vote of a red congressman to be cast for a blue congressman's legislation to ultimately send more money into a blue state...
Alaska, home of the Bridge to Nowhere.

[Spidey]

Not that long ago, someone posted a map showing that most uneducated people lived in red states…but with closer inspection, you could see that most of the uneducated people lived in the smaller “blue” areas of those red states, where dropout rates could easily be 50% or more, and Texas that had the most uneducated people also has the most recent immigrants.

Stats are mostly raw data, without any real value…unless someone wants’ to use them for some kind of…shall I say…propaganda. (centrist or otherwise)