DescentBB

now, I'm not an Evangelical Christian(pretty traditional Methodist/agnostic mix here), but this article, and its reasoning, was a stellar read:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opi ... -coop.html

I'd love to hear the take from some, or heck, all of you here.

Couldn’t care less.

Spidey wrote:Couldn’t care less.

your intellectual curiousity is breathtaking......

Seriously, this isn't the sort of thing you give thought to, especially in this day and age? Really?

Was that insult really needed, my intellectual curiosity is just fine.

You asked for everyone’s opinion, so being the polite person I am, I gave it.

I gave up organized religion long ago, and its fate is no longer my concern.

Spidey wrote:Was that insult really needed, my intellectual curiosity is just fine.

just teasing with that part.....

I gave up organized religion long ago, and its fate is no longer my concern.

well, this guy looked at that phenomenon of which you were a part, and that was part of how he put together his vision of evangelical Christianity going forward.

God and religion have been declared dead many times over the centuries. We always think we're too advanced or too educated for it but it just seems to come back stronger. The article is hyperbole

However I do agree with several of his points

yup, CUDA.....note that the author does not declare either God or Christianity dead, just one recent strain of it either dead or badly damaged.

Yes, one day I hope we will be free of the fairytales and garbage of religion- but it will take a very long time.

I'm just hoping that the most dangerous and backward religion called islam dies first.

uh-huh........the concept of off-topic ever enter your head, or does any opportunity to be anti-Islam do for you?

ThunderBunny wrote:Yes, one day I hope we will be free of the fairytales and garbage of religion- but it will take a very long time.

You're perhaps the most religious person who posts here.

Hmmmm, the concept of NOT belonging to an organized religion is on the rise. The N.O.N.E.S. (I'm not making this acronym up) is now the new trend in the U.S.

http://www.pewforum.org/unaffiliated/no ... -rise.aspx

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/rel ... 56344976/1

I myself love being able to ask God anything. I consider myself non-denominational and always have. Plus, I went out one day after some very extreme circumstances in my life with the power of God all on me and saw a Mexican fold over without even touching him. As long as I'm alive it will never completely die .

callmeslick wrote:yup, CUDA.....note that the author does not declare either God or Christianity dead, just one recent strain of it either dead or badly damaged.

Yeah... The guy explicitly states (early in the article) that he doesn't think the message of the gospel will die, just "evangelicalism."

I think I agree with the majority of it. If anything, I think he's predicting the continuation of a trend that's already well on its way:

- Tendency toward "mega churches" that focus on relevance and feeling rather than what the Bible actually has to say: check
- Missionaries coming here from other countries: check
- Hostility toward the "christian culture": check

I kinda started skimming by the end, so I don't if He drove home this point, but I think the answer to all of this is for Christians is to go back to their roots (though he predicts that many will react in the opposite way - trying to become more "relevant") - go back and study the Bible and figure out what God's priorities are all about. They certainly aren't centered around governments and policies - they are centered around individuals & personal relationships - particularly personal relationships with God. That's where this "evangelicalism" went wrong... it became religion, abandoning the heart of the gospel.

Jeff250 wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:Yes, one day I hope we will be free of the fairytales and garbage of religion- but it will take a very long time.

You're perhaps the most religious person who posts here.

I would differ......completely.

flip wrote: Plus, I went out one day after some very extreme circumstances in my life with the power of God all on me and saw a Mexican fold over without even touching him.).

this was God's doing.....?

callmeslick wrote:

flip wrote: Plus, I went out one day after some very extreme circumstances in my life with the power of God all on me and saw a Mexican fold over without even touching him.).

this was God's doing.....?

I'm confused too. From the way he phrased it I envisioned Flip zapping the guy with the power of Jesus! More details needed.

sorta how I read it, too, Will. Albeit a very funny mental image, but hardly a Christian concept.

I'll make a long story short. I was in immense pain. I hurt myself when I was 18 and kept working for the next 20 year's. I was also isolated. So, one night, I had taken like 20 7.5 hydrocodone, a bunch of weed and about 8 beers. The pain was unbearable and I was crunched up in a ball in my chair. I had been out of work about 3 years already and getting worse. Well, that night I jumped up and cried out to God, "you got to do something!"

Well, I let off a lot of pressure that night. I basically went into a rage. I had a lot of suspicion and being hurt and my relationship was very strained. The next morning, I got up and was still distressed and as I was almost resentful towards God. I felt if I hadn't tried so hard to follow his ways, things would not have gotten as bad as they did. Well, about as soon as I thought that, I changed my mind. I cried out "though you slay me, you
are my God!". Well, an immense strength came over me. I was pumped and I felt this urge to go walking around town. I shaved my head and just went walking.

I ended up at a strip mall here in town, and in one store, there was work being done., b Now, I wasn't going around talking to people but I was very intent . There was these 3 Mexicans in a recess in the concrete floor, about knee deep. Heh, it was obvious I did not belong there but I was just walking around. Well, one of them was giving me a hard time, told me I needed a hard hat. So I told him to go get me one. Lol, guy was really just trying to run me off. Well, on impulse, I pushed the palm of my hand towards his stomach and said "peace", but not outloud. As soon as I did that, he doubled over like I kicked him and started cryingi. Surprised me too so I got out of there.

I have had many experiences with God,all my life I've been a rebellious fool, but that was something new .

Now, I know some here are gonna mock this, go ahead, I don't care. I'm not a believer, I'm a knower. Faith is not blind belief. It is the substance of things unseen.

My take on the article:

I tend to agree that evangelicalism is on the decline numbers-wise, and becoming a smaller minority group may lead to some rough times (especially dealing with anti-religion folk).

However, I disagree with the author's vision of evangelicalism becoming ultra-victimized, ultra-oppressed, banished-to-the-underground, etc.

Personally, I think he's subscribing to the increasingly-paranoid culture I've started seeing lately among evangelicals. [I've heard/seen more about "persecution" from Christian family and friends over the last few years than in the rest of my life combined.]

I may be wrong, Foil, but my reading of it was this: the the victimization/marginalization thing is a cycle involving both the evangelicals and their mindset(sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy thing) and societal reaction to them. In other words, the paranoia makes evangelicals react in a certain way, society reacts to that behavior, the evangelical camp reacts to that, on and on........

flip wrote:Now, I know some here are gonna mock this, go ahead, I don't care. I'm not a believer, I'm a knower. Faith is not blind belief. It is the substance of things unseen.

I don't know, Flip. My pastor never mentioned anything like that in his lullaby... er, sermon. Show me one place in the Bible where the power of God was used against anyone resisting his people! That poor Mexican was just trying to feed his family by giving you a hard time, and right in the middle of it you kicked his ass with the power of God. You ought to be ashamed of yourself!

As for anyone who needs a reason in order to believe it, I would think we could safely assume that his green card was expired, at least.

This story and the reaction which I know it evokes fills me with sarcasm.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:

flip wrote:Now, I know some here are gonna mock this...

This story and the reaction which I know it evokes fills me with sarcasm.

< glances back up the thread >
What reaction?

The one which you'll see as you glance back up the thread I know it evokes.

No, you misunderstand Thorne. I was further from anger or contention than you can be. It was not aggression in the least, I imparted the peace of God to him, without actually having to lay hands on him. Something that no doubt is discouraged by scripture ("lay hands on no man suddenly") but nevertheless there was an effect. That was why I posted those vids about Chi and humans emitting light, which is a form of energy. Not that I attribute it to anything but the power of the presence of God, but I was trying to understand the mechanics.

flip wrote: Faith is not blind belief. It is the substance of things unseen.

actually, that's the definition of faith.

I understood you. My post was infused with unusual and potentially risky concentrations of sarcasm.

Ferno wrote:

flip wrote:Faith is not blind belief. It is the substance of things unseen.

actually, that's the definition of faith.

You are as correct as you are unambiguous!

I donno flip, you could just as easily tell your story as: "You beat the piss out of some random Mexican worker while you were tripping the ★■◆● out.".

I would seriously question the accuracy of your memories, because you were drunk and overdosed on narcotics. Maybe you just saw something like that on TV and imagined the whole thing, or maybe you really did assault some Mexican on the street, there is no way of telling what really happened anymore.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:You are as correct as you are unambiguous!

only half-right.

you and flip might want to check the dictionary though

No, that wasn't the only thing that happened that day, which was the very next day and I had sobered up and been clean since . Maybe you should give Him a chance Krom. You know, if Ceaser had not burnt Alexandria to the ground, there's no telling where we would be right now;) No, I have no doubt we are eternal spirits, maybe you should consider why we produce light , which is a particle and a wave , and wonder what kind of energy or information it contains.

Ferno, the word faith is an English translation of ancient Greek. As it relates to the bible, it has a very different definition than we use it today. Faith is the 'evidence' of things unseen and the 'substance' of things hoped for. Faith is the tangible part of belief.