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Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:19 am
by Nightshade
Quite literally- and then blame the republican party for the pain he and his underlings inflict upon everyone.
A leaked email from an Agriculture Department field officer adds fuel to claims President Obama's political strategy is to make the billions in recent federal budget cuts as painful as possible to win the public opinion battle against Republicans.

The email, circulated around Capitol Hill, was sent Monday by Charles Brown, a director at the agency’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service office in Raleigh, N.C. He appears to tell his regional team about a response to his recent question on the amount of latitude he has in making cuts.

According to the partially redacted email, the response came from the Agriculture Department’s budget office and in part states: “However you manage that reduction, you need to make sure you are not contradicting what we said the impact would be.”

The response noted that the administration had already told Congress that the APHIS would “eliminate assistance to producers in 24 states in managing wildlife damage to the aquaculture industry” without additional funds.

Arkansas Republican Rep. Tim Griffin said the administration’s response to Brown’s email shows a bid to undermine efforts to replace the cuts, known as sequester, with less onerous ones.

“This email confirms what many Americans have suspected: The Obama administration is doing everything they can to make sure their worst predictions come true and to maximize the pain of the sequester cuts for political gain,” Griffin said in a statement.
http://tinyurl.com/caw5ra7

Creating hardship on PURPOSE for political gain. Is this what the democratic party is really about? Of course it is. Retain and gain power by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:40 am
by CUDA
http://griffin.house.gov/sites/griffin. ... /email.pdf
From:
Brown, Charles S
-
APHIS
Sent:
Monday, March 04, 2013 1:20 PM
To:[redacted]
Cc:[redacted]
Subject:
FW: Aquaculture loss
-
sequestration
All,
During the Management team conference call this morning, I asked if there was any latitude in how the
sequestration cuts related to aquaculture could be managed (e.g. spread across the Region).
The question was elevated to APHIS BPAS.
The response back was, “
We have gone on record with a
notification to Congress and whoever else that “APHIS would eliminate assistance to producers
in 24 States in managing wildlife damage to the aquaculture industry, unless they provide
funding to cover the costs.“
So, it is our opinion that however you manage that reduction, you
need to make sure you are not contradicting what we said the impact would be.”
I have been asked to provide a plan by Friday that will outline the implement of the $263,000
aquaculture reduction.
I will use the information you have already provided.
If I need additional information, I will let you know.
Charlie

Charles S. Brown
Eastern Regional Director
USDA
-
APHIS
-
Wildlife Services
920 Main Campus Drive
Suite 200
Raleigh, NC 27606


White House message machine.
"Due to staffing reductions resulting from sequestration, we regret to inform you that White House Tours will be canceled effective Saturday, March 9, 2013, until further notice," the recording said. "Unfortunately, we will not be able to reschedule affected tours ... We very much regret having to take this action, particularly during the popular spring touring season."
Scarequester is in full bloom.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:41 am
by CUDA
Obama, fresh off his November reelection, began almost at once executing plans to win back the House in 2014, which he and his advisers believe will be crucial to the outcome of his second term and to his legacy as president. He is doing so by trying to articulate for the American electorate his own feelings — an exasperation with an opposition party that blocks even the most politically popular elements of his agenda.

Obama has committed to raising money for fellow Democrats, agreed to help recruit viable candidates, and launched a political nonprofit group dedicated to furthering his agenda and that of his congressional allies. The goal is to flip the Republican-held House back to Democratic control, allowing Obama to push forward with a progressive agenda on gun control, immigration, climate change and the economy during his final two years in office, according to congressional Democrats, strategists and others familiar with Obama’s thinking.

“The president understands that to get anything done, he needs a Democratic majority in the House of Representatives,” said Rep. Steve Israel (N.Y.), chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. “To have a legacy in 2016, he will need a House majority in 2014, and that work has to start now.”
when your agenda is political you will never accomplish anything

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:46 am
by CUDA
Merriam-Webster. wrote:Definition of DEMAGOGUE
1
: a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:21 am
by callmeslick
definition of blind stupidity: Trying to imply Obama fits the definition of demagogue.

look, the idea of managing this is to not hurt people, but I admit, it is meant to bring the public's attention to what good comes of 'discretionary' spending.
I see little beyond inconvenience in the White House Tour thing, yet it saves some money. As for the Ag dept curtailing wildlife control, it is less harmful than stopping food testing, for instance.......once, again, you all are getting political yourselves in your reaction, and far more so than is the Obama administration in trying to make the cuts. If you'd like to prove me wrong, feel free to suggest lest impactful ways to cut discretionary spending by 6.9% in the areas not off-limits by the way the law was written.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:40 pm
by Tunnelcat
CUDA wrote:
Merriam-Webster. wrote:Definition of DEMAGOGUE
1
: a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
I'm afraid I agree. Too much crap is leaking out of the political woodwork. :o

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm
by Will Robinson
callmeslick wrote:definition of blind stupidity: Trying to imply Obama fits the definition of demagogue.

look, the idea of managing this is to not hurt people, but I admit, it is meant to bring the public's attention to what good comes of 'discretionary' spending.
I see little beyond inconvenience in the White House Tour thing, yet it saves some money. As for the Ag dept curtailing wildlife control, it is less harmful than stopping food testing, for instance.......once, again, you all are getting political yourselves in your reaction, and far more so than is the Obama administration in trying to make the cuts. If you'd like to prove me wrong, feel free to suggest lest impactful ways to cut discretionary spending by 6.9% in the areas not off-limits by the way the law was written.
Slick, the man who actually was doing the work....the guy 'in the field' who was going to apply the cuts in the State of NC... asked if he could make his implementation of the cuts less harmful to Americans by managing their application accordingly. The White House said 'Do not do anything to make things less harmful than we told people they would be.'!!

I don't need to suggest less impactful ways the guy could do his job. The White House told him to NOT perform it in a less impactful way for the expressed purpose of creating the MOST impactful outcome possible!!

You need to at least face reality. You must be getting tired of carrying the Obama teams water bucket by now! Demagogue is a perfect description....perfect.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:48 pm
by Will Robinson
tunnelcat wrote:
CUDA wrote:
Merriam-Webster. wrote:Definition of DEMAGOGUE
1
: a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
I'm afraid I agree. Too much crap is leaking out of the political woodwork. :o
Leaking out or taking place?!?
It sounds like you lament their exposure not their actions!

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:13 pm
by Foil
Hm. Casting this as a direct example of a widespread "Obama is trying to cause pain!" conspiracy is a stretch...

...However, the email does seem to be an example of an agency making cuts based on what they had previously announced to the media, at the expense of viable alternatives. (By the way, this doesn't even make sense. If they find a better way to handle the reductions, it can always be spun as a public-relations positive.)

It's definitely a political game, and it's being played by all sides here. For example, depending on who you talk to, the government-funded clients of my company are either going to "be crushed" or "make it through without much of a hit" by the sequester. :roll:

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:48 pm
by CUDA
callmeslick wrote:definition of blind stupidity: Trying to imply Obama fits the definition of demagogue.
that's exactly what he's doing. it's only you that donesn't see it slick. even TC see's it and she's as hard left on this board as we have. try not to be a tool for the administration.
FYI if your going to try and portray me as stupid. I'll call you out for being a political stooge for the Democrats.
look, the idea of managing this is to not hurt people, but I admit, it is meant to bring the public's attention to what good comes of 'discretionary' spending.
I see little beyond inconvenience in the White House Tour thing, yet it saves some money. As for the Ag dept curtailing wildlife control, it is less harmful than stopping food testing, for instance.......once, again, you all are getting political yourselves in your reaction, and far more so than is the Obama administration in trying to make the cuts. If you'd like to prove me wrong, feel free to suggest lest impactful ways to cut discretionary spending by 6.9% in the areas not off-limits by the way the law was written.
IF the Idea of managing this is not to hurt people then why is the White House trying to maximize the impact of this purely for political gain? why did the white house have illegal prisoners released BEFORE the sequester ever went into effect if not to maximize the damage. the intent is clear, everything this administration has done on this has been to demagogue and maximize the impact, because if it wasnt they would have accepted the offer of the house to move the cuts where they made the least amount of impact. they refused that offer. WHY?
plus the Email states it and the 2nd article backs it up. only those that don't want to to hear it or intentionally ignore it. think otherwise

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:00 pm
by callmeslick
they're doing no such thing, actually, CUDA. What they are maximizing in the cuts is merely the visibility. If they wanted to make them most painful, they could have cut things like unemployment benefits, healthcare, childcare subsidies, large-scale military contracts. For the moment, they are clearly holding off on the really painful cuts, but making sure word gets out on the minor stuff they are cutting. Painting it in any other way is sort of silly.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:14 pm
by CUDA
first off they are not cuts. we've been over this before. there was a spending increase over last year. it's just now there is a little bit less of a spending increase. second please explain to me why they publicly released those prisoners BEFORE any of the sequester went into effect, if not just to play politics and scare the people.
What they are maximizing in the cuts is merely the visibility
bull★■◆●. the President was offered the power to make the "cuts" where they would have the least amount of impact. he declined WHY????

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:19 pm
by callmeslick
He is making them where they have the least economic impact, CUDA, that is my point......

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:36 pm
by Will Robinson
callmeslick wrote:they're doing no such thing, actually, CUDA. What they are maximizing in the cuts is merely the visibility. If they wanted to make them most painful, they could have cut things like unemployment benefits, healthcare, childcare subsidies, large-scale military contracts. For the moment, they are clearly holding off on the really painful cuts, but making sure word gets out on the minor stuff they are cutting. Painting it in any other way is sort of silly.
That is bullcrap!
They aren't putting off anything, the legislation dictates when it hits, and the percentage of the reduction in the scheduled budget increase is to be applied evenly to all programs, projects and activities. If the White House wanted to apply some helpful applications to the "cuts" they would have accepted the House's offer for an amendment to allow that but Obama chose to refuse the option and instead demagogue the issue saying he 'doesn't want to decide which child doesn't get fed'. And he would have allowed the APHIS agent in NC to apply some logic to them instead of instructing him to make sure the impact was NOT lessened by his methods!

You are doing a pathetic job of trying to spin excuses for Obama in what is obviously a complete political stunt. Why do you want to be so wrong?

By the way, the least economic impact would be something like:
"Michelle and I are going to stay in Washington and Tiger Woods will have to play golf with someone else and we are sending the millions of dollars we would be spending on our really cool lifestyle to the hungry children I couldn't decide to feed so the janitors here can still get paid and the teachers we're pretending got pink slips won't have to pretend to get them and the zoo can stay open...."

but that kind of thing didn't happen. Instead some of the same programs that are getting "cuts" are making new orders for stuff that is non essential and hiring new employees! So get over that stupid excuse that he is trying to lessen economic impact. He WANTS impact! Standard Obama modus operandi, make political points out of every crisis and blame the opponent for your role in causing it.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:41 pm
by callmeslick
Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:they're doing no such thing, actually, CUDA. What they are maximizing in the cuts is merely the visibility. If they wanted to make them most painful, they could have cut things like unemployment benefits, healthcare, childcare subsidies, large-scale military contracts. For the moment, they are clearly holding off on the really painful cuts, but making sure word gets out on the minor stuff they are cutting. Painting it in any other way is sort of silly.
That is bullcrap!
They aren't putting off anything, the legislation dictates when it hits, and the percentage of the reduction in the scheduled budget increase is to be applied evenly to all programs, projects and activities. If the White House wanted to apply some helpful applications to the "cuts" they would have accepted the House's offer for an amendment to allow that but Obama chose to refuse the option and instead demagogue the issue saying he 'doesn't want to decide which child doesn't get fed'. And he would have allowed the APHIS agent in NC to apply some logic to them instead of instructing him to make sure the impact was NOT lessened by his methods!

You are doing a pathetic job of trying to spin excuses for Obama in what is obviously a complete political stunt. Why do you want to be so wrong?
sorry, Will, but you don't quite understand. The earmarked cuts(yes, CUDA, cuts) in budget levels is over an annual budget. By doing small cuts now and playing for time(note nicey-nice dinner with GOP Senate leadership), Obama clearly hopes this will not go on for long.Yes, eventually, the avoidance would catch up FAR more severely, but there is no mandate that he has to cut things immediately in incremental amounts, Will, and that is what you seem to misunderstand.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:26 pm
by Spidey
This whole thing just proves there will never be any budget cuts, to control the deficit, and the Republicans were stupid to cave in on taxes.

Spending junkies…plain and simple.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:35 pm
by callmeslick
explain to me again why it's good to have less spending when you're halfway through a recovery from a deep recession? I mean, if you simply let the economy recover, keep the tax fixes in place, get rid of the loopholes, you will be back into the black(a la Clinton), and by then, address what needs to be done for longterm healthcare costs and the easy fixes to get Social Security stable for a century more. I mean, the real issue is healthcare(ie Medicare) spending for an aging population, and THAT is off the table so far.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:03 pm
by Tunnelcat
Will Robinson wrote:Leaking out or taking place?!?
It sounds like you lament their exposure not their actions!
No, I definitely lament their actions. I like to see a people play fair and not resort to dirty tricks. But when the other side plays dirty, well................. :wink:

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:56 am
by CUDA
So the president is minimizing the pain of scarqeuester according to some.
Well days before it goes into effect he trots out Napolitano to tell how bad travel will become because of these cuts and how they are going yo have to furlough workers to cover the shortfall. Yet the night before scarequester the TSA spends 50 million on new uniforms.
And plus they release prisoners from jail. Sounds minimized to me

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:05 am
by Will Robinson
tunnelcat wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:Leaking out or taking place?!?
It sounds like you lament their exposure not their actions!
No, I definitely lament their actions. I like to see a people play fair and not resort to dirty tricks. But when the other side plays dirty, well................. :wink:
Too bad you don't recognize that when it comes to our representatives selling us out to preserve their own power and wealth there is only one side. As long as half of them have you convinced they only do bad things because the other kids made them do it then, you too, are part of the problem.

You have no right to complain about anything politicians do because you are an enabler.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:02 am
by Tunnelcat
CUDA wrote:So the president is minimizing the pain of scarqeuester according to some.
Well days before it goes into effect he trots out Napolitano to tell how bad travel will become because of these cuts and how they are going yo have to furlough workers to cover the shortfall. Yet the night before scarequester the TSA spends 50 million on new uniforms.
And plus they release prisoners from jail. Sounds minimized to me
If you liked that CUDA, you'll LOVE this!

http://news.yahoo.com/why-white-house-s ... 00823.html

Will, I'm not deluded, nor am I blind. I DO realize the Dems are just another side of the corporate machine that runs Washington. Most of them are just wolves in sheep's clothing, with the exception maybe of Bernie Sanders. I do however, side more with Democratic ideals than Republican. I've even voted for the Green Party whenever possible. But Obama was a choice I held my nose over when I made it. Romney would have openly cemented corporate power in Washington without question and I didn't want him in office AT ALL.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:53 am
by woodchip
I asked this in another thread. Does anyone here know how govt.budgets work?

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:27 am
by callmeslick
yup

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:57 am
by Spidey
woodchip wrote:I asked this in another thread. Does anyone here know how govt.budgets work?
Yea, government budgets work ass backwards of normal budgets.

A budget is an allocation of available funds…but in the government's case it’s more like a wish list that gets funded later...or not.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:13 am
by callmeslick
seems to be a disconnect between how it's supposed to work and how it works in practice.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:51 am
by CUDA
Personal budget = Cash Available

Government budget = VISA

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:52 am
by Foil
Given the average credit-card debt among U.S. citizens, I think the national budget reflects the normal household budget pretty well... :P

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:53 am
by Will Robinson
callmeslick wrote:seems to be a disconnect between how it's supposed to work and how it works in practice.
It's not a disconnect that sits between the two. It's a criminal enterprise that would be under siege by the government if it wasn't the people running the government we are talking about...

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:54 am
by CUDA
Given the average credit-card debt among U.S. citizens, I think the national budget reflects the normal household budget pretty well... :P
ya but with your personal debt it's you that's responsible.
but with the Government debt it's you that's responsible. :P :P

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:38 pm
by CobGobbler
Move to another country if this one is so bad.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:55 pm
by Will Robinson
CobGobbler wrote:Move to another country if this one is so bad.
Or make it better.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:33 pm
by Spidey
Foil wrote:Given the average credit-card debt among U.S. citizens, I think the national budget reflects the normal household budget pretty well... :P
Yea, and look what happened.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:49 pm
by CUDA
Will Robinson wrote:
CobGobbler wrote:Move to another country if this one is so bad.
Or make it better.
but that would take effort. it's much easier to say if you don't like it leave

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:43 pm
by callmeslick
actually, governmental budgeting is FAR more complex than households. First off, there has to be a plan for WHAT you expect to expend money on, and multiple revenue streams to cover those expenses. Plus, there have to be provisions for unforseen events and if done right, establishment of surpluses for downturns in revenue. Since government is involved with certain very expensive propositions like wars and major longterm projects, like with a business budget, borrowing is necessary(virtually all major corporations have a lot of borrowed money on the books, they're called bonds, and people like me buy them all the time). The trick is to try and borrow a lot when rates of interest are low, and pay down when rates go up. This whole game is complex, and rather ill-suited to politics, which governs by whim and has a tendency to pendulum swings that add a level of uncertainty to the process. Anyone who wishes to oversimplify government budgeting down to the personal household level is either misunderstanding the complexity, or trying to make political points.
By the way, regarding the love it or leave it stuff, I tend to avoid that.....I'd love to see people working together to build a stronger nation. We need more of that. However, if all you wish to do when your side lost an election is nitpick the incumbant, then I'll gladly buy you luggage and wish you well in your new home.......

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:50 pm
by Spidey
I doubt if there is one person on this board that doesn’t understand that the federal budget is far more complex than a household budget, I believe the point here is simply how certain basic principles and pitfalls apply to both. (or at least should)

Complexity is no excuse not to be run with sound principles, and prudence.

But even as you compare a government budget to a household or business, one might be surprised on how many of the things they have in common, other than the complexity.

Health
Security
Rainy day
Infrastructure (just got finished fixing the water pipes, leading into my home from the street)
Big projects…they are all there (well hopefully not the war :twisted2: )
Etc… (most of the same responsibilities)

The only real difference that I see (other than complexity) is like I said before…they put the spending before the revenue, and that is only possible because the government has almost unlimited borrowing power.

Your argument really doesn’t have any impact, because people already know the differences, and understand them. It’s not rocket science or brain surgery.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:00 pm
by callmeslick
I agree, Spidey, but the government thing sure seems to get over-simplified enough for me to want to reinforce the subtile differences. In practice, for instance, I think a government compares FAR, FAR more closely to a business budgetary model.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:56 pm
by callmeslick
Oh, and for those who say that Obama has no plan:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/seques ... dents-plan

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:12 am
by woodchip
Well since even slick has missed this part of the budget game, let me bring it to light. The question is, what happens if a manager runs his dept. well and has excess money from the budget? Now being as you are all honest folks your first inclination would be to turn the excess money in to help with debt and future budgets. Well you'd be wrong. The good mgr. takes the excess money and spends it...every last bit of it. Why? Because the way govt. budgets are set up, if you turn money in your budget for the next year will be cut by a equal amount. So there is no incentive for a well run dept that is frugal and can save money. Now add this up across a million different depts and you can began to see where some of the waste is generated. As slick points out, govt. budgets are indeed different from your budgets. Where-as you look for ways to save money, govt. mgrs. are looking for ways to spend money so at the end of the year they get the same budget plus that annual increase.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:18 am
by Sergeant Thorne
So task a separate department with periodically projecting a reasonable amount of spending (err high), and then give a bonus to all involved depending on how much is left over at the end of the fiscal year (or quarterly). This would be balanced by quality-of-service considerations come election-time, and ideally therefore quality-of-service controls set in place by elected officials for all non-elected personnel.

Re: Obama wants to hurt you...

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:45 am
by callmeslick
woodchip wrote:Well since even slick has missed this part of the budget game, let me bring it to light. The question is, what happens if a manager runs his dept. well and has excess money from the budget? Now being as you are all honest folks your first inclination would be to turn the excess money in to help with debt and future budgets. Well you'd be wrong. The good mgr. takes the excess money and spends it...every last bit of it. Why? Because the way govt. budgets are set up, if you turn money in your budget for the next year will be cut by a equal amount. So there is no incentive for a well run dept that is frugal and can save money. Now add this up across a million different depts and you can began to see where some of the waste is generated. As slick points out, govt. budgets are indeed different from your budgets. Where-as you look for ways to save money, govt. mgrs. are looking for ways to spend money so at the end of the year they get the same budget plus that annual increase.
you are correct, this is how it has been done, traditionally, and ought to stop.