DescentBB

The sudden purchase of large amounts of RIOT GEAR and ammunition- the majority of which is hollow-point, has gone on over the last two years. Why the 'gearing' up by DHS (Dept. of Homeland Security?) Members of Congress are also left in the dark as evidenced by this video:



And this one:



What's the big secret? Is it preparation for something big coming soon?

Perhaps the bank runs and bank "holidays" in Cyprus are the beginnings of what they're anticipating worldwide.

I'm constantly surprised that govt. dept. heads don't answer questions asked. If the House had any balls they would cut funding to them until they did.

they aren't purchasing huge amounts, merely securing the rights to purchase. Two different things...

"Police Departments Beg And Barter For Ammo While DHS Buys Up 1.6 Billion Rounds In Past Year"

woodchip wrote:"Police Departments Beg And Barter For Ammo While DHS Buys Up 1.6 Billion Rounds In Past Year"

not true, as stated.....but, the open-ended order DID make ammo of some kinds go into short supply. Rather a clever strategy, IMO.

of course, there is no secret. The actual amount purchased was 240,000 rounds:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/26/rumor ... dgun-ammo/

callmeslick wrote:of course, there is no secret. The actual amount purchased was 240,000 rounds:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/26/rumor ... dgun-ammo/

That may be true of that one order but you wouldn't be trying to imply that the total number of rounds they have purchased/ordered for delivery is that low would you?

And their previous excuse, that they need to have enough for training other departments, is a little suspect now that many members of those other departments say they never train with hollowpoint ammo, either with Homeland Security or on their own. Now those other departments can't even get enough ammo?!?

I think they are trying to drive the cost through the roof for no good reason. I think they are full of themselves and this is just another manifestation of that full of it state of being.

Hm ? AFAIK all official training is executed w/ the exact ammo that is used in the field (else the training would be pretty pointless.) The only official agency that I can imagine not using hollow point bullets is the military (re The Hague Convention of 1899.) Everyone else uses it for accuracy, stopping power, and limiting collateral damage.

Grendel wrote:Hm ? AFAIK all official training is executed w/ the exact ammo that is used in the field (else the training would be pretty pointless.) The only official agency that I can imagine not using hollow point bullets is the military (re The Hague Convention of 1899.) Everyone else uses it for accuracy, stopping power, and limiting collateral damage.

I don't know about all cops but I've been given police range ammo from Pennsylvania and South Carolina and they are frangible rounds for safety on the range and low cost purposes. The article I read today had a cop, I don't remember where he was from, saying his department never trains with hollow points for those same reasons so I tend to doubt most do use hollowpoints for training.

At the target distances cops practice with handguns the frangible rounds, which have similar weights to the duty use hollowpoint ammo by design, won't have any accuracy issues and would be consistent as far as same trajectory and point of impact as their hollowpoint counterparts. So the cost savings make sense to not issue them for training.

But even if most do use hollowpoints there is still the big elephant in the room:
According to Homeland Security they have purchased 1.6 BILLION rounds. That is a 100 year supply for their needs using their highest use estimates from recent years. It is enough to fight the Iraq war for 20 years.
I find it extremely hard to believe that this was a procurement budgetary consideration!!

I find it easy to believe that a government that will buy wheat and corn and burn it to keep the farmers growing it will buy ammo to see if they can effect gun use/purchases/etc. After all, it isn't their money, they just print it and send us the bill.

NOBODY has purchased any where near that many rounds, Will. You are citing completely fictitious numbers. They have secured the RIGHT, if desired or necessary, to purchase that many rounds over a long period of time, but to date, have only actually purchased 250,000 rounds in the past year, and less than half of those were, indeed hollow-point rounds. This is very well documented, so please, quit citing made-up numbers.

So if what you're saying is true, Slick, why are the congressman in the videos asked about those numbers AND then they're given NO ANSWER by DHS. DHS could simply say outright that those numbers are FALSE or explain the numbers the way you did.

DHS is simply NOT answering. Isn't that also the issue?

callmeslick wrote:NOBODY has purchased any where near that many rounds, Will. You are citing completely fictitious numbers. They have secured the RIGHT, if desired or necessary, to purchase that many rounds over a long period of time, but to date, have only actually purchased 250,000 rounds in the past year, and less than half of those were, indeed hollow-point rounds. This is very well documented, so please, quit citing made-up numbers.

The numbers I'm citing are confirmed by DHS! When asked about it, in those terms, with those figures they affirmed that it was likely the correct total of all the orders but that it was for a ten year period. 100 years worth of orders and it is highly unlikely those departments would still be using the same caliber weapons in 50 years time!

How many they have taken delivery of this year or this month doesn't matter. What matters is they have purchased/ordered for delivery 100 years of ammo for use in the next 10 years. Those are DHS figures not made up by me. That is 90 years too much ammo and even if they cancel a big portion of the order, which they most likely will do, they will have managed to sustain the effect on price and availability they have already caused for a long time!! Ammo prices are through the roof right now and forecasted to stay there indefinitely.

By the way, the stories are from AP, Forbes was one of them....not alex jones etc. and you can find them easily enough