DescentBB

Been cleaning out the basement, purging junk I don't want. I came across my old HP Pavilion with 98SE . It still works, the flat panel is nice with base speakers and is still loaded with some oldie but goodie games, but I wouldn't ever put it online again. Should I keep the system just for the games, or junk it? I'm not going to sell it with the main drive installed, so it's basically recycle material.

I've been looking at which of the old games I could get to work on Windows 7 64 bit, but there's one that's stumping me. It's Star Trek Borg. Corny, but I like John de Lancie as "Q". I've got the patch to run it on OS's above Windows 95, but the 64 bit thing is the killer now.

Hmmm, I think I have that game (although its more an interactive video) somewhere in my archive of CDs, if I do still have it maybe tomorrow I'll see if it is possible to get it to kick over in Windows 7 x64...

Heck, if it's running, keep it. Play some old games on it.

Somewhere I have a copy of ReVolt and Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force II.

^_^

Not to mention Blade Runner!

I say get rid of it. If you really want those games, copy the image of the drive and run it in virtual box on your Windows 7 machine.

Put your old computer in the country house. I have a country house (where I live only in the summer), is generally all that is old - old TV, fridge, computer, audio system, car etc. Thieves perfectly know that doesn't make sense to steal it because they won't be able to sell all it. So for me there is always a spare computer)

So I found my star trek borg CDs. The reason it won't work in Windows 7 x64 is because it is a 16 bit application, which won't run on ANY 64 bit OS. The simplest solution is probably to use a 32 bit guest OS in a virtual machine, so Windows XP 32 bit in a virtualbox VM is probably the best bet to get it running (you will still need the "borgpatch" to get it working because of a poorly coded windows version check, but otherwise it should work in XP32). It *might* work in Windows XP mode, but I wouldn't recommend it because XP Mode isn't built well for fullscreen graphical stuff.

Krom wrote:Hmmm, I think I have that game (although its more an interactive video) somewhere in my archive of CDs, if I do still have it maybe tomorrow I'll see if it is possible to get it to kick over in Windows 7 x64...

So I found my star trek borg CDs. The reason it won't work in Windows 7 x64 is because it is a 16 bit application, which won't run on ANY 64 bit OS. The simplest solution is probably to use a 32 bit guest OS in a virtual machine, so Windows XP 32 bit in a virtualbox VM is probably the best bet to get it running (you will still need the "borgpatch" to get it working because of a poorly coded windows version check, but otherwise it should work in XP32). It *might* work in Windows XP mode, but I wouldn't recommend it because XP Mode isn't built well for fullscreen graphical stuff.

Thanks Krom. It is an old interactive video game, but I love watching "Q". I still have an active XP machine that should run it, since it's 32 bit and I have that patch that gets the game to run on other operating systems than 95. Yes, it's a 16 bit application, so that's the trouble. The XP machine is about to be retired since Microsoft announced that they would stop supporting it on 4/8/13, so I could keep that machine as an old gaming machine, just not for going online. I also like the Wing Commander Series, but since GOG has those titles set up for modern systems, I might get those copies.

Issac, or Krom, that's how most people are running the game, in a virtual box. I'm not familiar with setting something like that up. How is it done and do I need a copy of Windows 98SE to run in the virtual box? My 7 machine has a nice big monitor, so I'd like to get Borg to work on that.

You aren't helping me clean up Duper. My basement is full of old tech that I really need to pair down. Let's see, I've got an old Sony U-matic 1 inch video cassette recorder (HUGE), an old electric typewriter, a couple of old HP project computers like the IPC and HP 85, some old Atari units, a couple of other old VCR's, several old video cameras, a Super 8 projector...........

Getting 98SE to run in Virtualbox is a pretty steep uphill battle, I don't think I ever got the installer on mine to actually run all the way through without crashing. And even at that point, it isn't a very good OS to have running in VB because there are a bunch of compatibility issues, although the main one is zero video acceleration support (entirely CPU driven by the guest OS so it'll be too slow for most stuff). Pretty much the best OS to run in VB is Windows XP, which can do some handy stuff for games like 3d acceleration for older win32 stuff, and a proper 2d video acceleration for older 2d/software rendered games. For everything else, DOSBox should mostly get the job done.

x2 dos box

dual boot

das boat

TC, if you make it into Portland, there's a place called FreeGeek that takes old tech and puts it to use. Great people there.

Krom wrote:Getting 98SE to run in Virtualbox is a pretty steep uphill battle, I don't think I ever got the installer on mine to actually run all the way through without crashing. And even at that point, it isn't a very good OS to have running in VB because there are a bunch of compatibility issues, although the main one is zero video acceleration support (entirely CPU driven by the guest OS so it'll be too slow for most stuff). Pretty much the best OS to run in VB is Windows XP, which can do some handy stuff for games like 3d acceleration for older win32 stuff, and a proper 2d video acceleration for older 2d/software rendered games. For everything else, DOSBox should mostly get the job done.

Yeah, VirtualBox doesn't support Win9x. Even if you get it to install, there are no guest tools for it. If the game runs on Windows XP, then that's your best bet. Otherwise, VMWare Player does support Win9x fairly well if you don't need 3d acceleration.

Doesn't VMware cost a cajillion dollars?

VMware Player is free.

OK, here's what I've decided to do. I'm going to try to install the game on my soon to be retired XP rig (my husband was still using it). I have the patch and I'll see if the game installs. Then I'll use that system for my older games and retire the old 98SE system. If it installs on XP, I might get VMware to run XP and also DOSbox for those really old games on my Win 7 rig.

Thanks for the suggestion Duper. At the moment, I won't be able to leave Corvallis at this time. Maybe in the future, I'll check out FreeGeek and give them my old system. I've decided to box it up and keep it around for just such a use. I'd need to first wipe the drive before donating it though.

I recycled some really old systems a few years back and I took out the drives. I decided to take them apart the other day in order to destroy the disks. I got a couple of very strong rare earth magnets out of them. The disks are pretty looking too, so maybe I'll make some type of art piece out of them.

Drill a hole through the platters and make a mobile or wind chime out of them. ^_^

Pull out that mapp gas torch of yours and cook the platters up till they glow, 110% guarantee the drives will never be readable again.

Also keep in mind that Neodymium (the most common type of permanent rare earth magnet in hard drives) is apparently mildly to moderately toxic, so prolonged exposure should be avoided.

Oh that's right. Platters are mostly aluminum. ...which melts at 1350F. (plus or minus depending on what's mixed with it)

I didn't know that about the magnets Krom. Thanks.

Krom wrote:Pull out that mapp gas torch of yours and cook the platters up till they glow, 110% guarantee the drives will never be readable again.

Oooooooooooooh! Will they turn pretty colors to make my new fancy wind chimes cool?

The disks out of the old IBM drive look really crude. The disks are thick and have a center layer of what looks like some kind of metal fibers and the disks are coated with a thin film of copper that scratches easily. All the others are nice and shiny mirrors.

Krom wrote:Also keep in mind that Neodymium (the most common type of permanent rare earth magnet in hard drives) is apparently mildly to moderately toxic, so prolonged exposure should be avoided.

Toxic? Hell, they sell those things down at the hardware store and in little puzzles. They are nickel plated aren't they? The hard drive magnets do have a shiny metal coating of some sort. That should protect the hands from anything toxic. Besides, the hard drive magnets are nice and stuck to their holder plates, so I don't even have to actually touch them to use them.

platters?
you should be using a SSD by now

Not on those really old rigs I "disposed" of. They were pre-1996. SSD's were only a pipe dream in the 1990's. Hell, my flash drives have more memory than my old IBM PC hard drive did. I remember when 20 megs sounded like a lot of drive space. Now one Windows Update wouldn't even fit.

Our family's original Gateway 2000 had a whopping 2 GB HDD. I have single files larger than that now.

tunnelcat wrote:I remember when 20 megs sounded like a lot of drive space.

Yep. My first hard drive was 80 megabytes (not gigabytes), and I remember a friend working from a 2-megabyte RAM-drive.

My first computer didn't have a hard drive at all, worked entirely off a 5.25" / 170 KB floppy drive. (Commodore 64 with a model 1541 floppy drive.)

The first x86 PC I owned had 32 MB of memory and a 2 GB/5400 RPM hard drive, when I first got Descent 3 I was using 128 MB of ram and an 8 GB/5400 RPM hard drive.

Ah the old Commodore 64 .. Those where the days

Basic programming language, cassette tape drives and 5 1/4 floppies

Playing M.U.L.E., Aztec Challenge, Lode Runner, F15 Strike Eagle

This thing ran Unix out of ROM. Not the best implementation in the world, but hey, things had to get a start somewhere.

http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html

http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/specifications.html

Is that...a built-in printer? Holy crap.

tunnelcat wrote:Not on those really old rigs I "disposed" of. They were pre-1996. SSD's were only a pipe dream in the 1990's. Hell, my flash drives have more memory than my old IBM PC hard drive did. I remember when 20 megs sounded like a lot of drive space. Now one Windows Update wouldn't even fit.

Back then, the talk was about Bubble memory not SSD or flash. That's what EEPROMs were for.

Foil wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:I remember when 20 megs sounded like a lot of drive space.

Yep. My first hard drive was 80 megabytes (not gigabytes), and I remember a friend working from a 2-megabyte RAM-drive.

My first system that I played Descent on (a 386Dx) had a 80 meg with Win95c.
iirc, for a while 254 meg was "the barrier" and no one thought we'd break it for a while...

Top Gun wrote:Is that...a built-in printer? Holy crap.

Not only a printer, but the very first inkjet printer, designed and built here in Corvallis in 1982, which was released for sale in 1984. The printhead was actually code named "St.Helens" by it's HP engineers, because under a microscope, the ink squirt looked like Mount St. Helens erupting when the ink came out of the head. My husband's own unit is still down in the basement in it's original box, along with a bunch of his other HP projects, like the HP 85.

Hmmmmm. I'd better check the batteries in that thing. It's coming on 30 years, so it's probably starting to leak.

So, TC,

How much do you charge people to see this computer museum?

Hey, my husband had that very idea! Cept' everything is buried away in boxes and it would take some WORK to set it up. That's what you get when you marry an electrical engineer and he hoards his projects.