DescentBB

tunnelcat wrote:Let the shenanigans begin.

Top Gun wrote:You can talk about the Voting Rights Act being based on "old data," which in the literal sense is true, but when you see the states in question scrambling to pass all sorts of restrictive laws the moment the Court ruling comes through...well...

Will Robinson wrote:I don't know all the activity you are talking about but if it is the picture ID requirement I think the argument that it somehow is a racist motivated requirement is ridiculous!

A totally lame use of the race card to keep voter fraud easy.

No one complains about the picture ID requirement in just about every other situation where the government or private entity requires it. Minorities seem to have no problem getting a picture ID when they want one so let them use it to register and vote too!

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:I don't know all the activity you are talking about but if it is the picture ID requirement I think the argument that it somehow is a racist motivated requirement is ridiculous!

not the way Texas wants to use it.....you can use a military ID, but NOT a student ID. You cannot use a social security card, and have to PAY for a photo ID card, and produce a birth certificate to get it.

A totally lame use of the race card to keep voter fraud easy.

except for the fact that there is no valid data showing voter fraud to be evident at anything over .01% of total votes in any election in modern history.

No one complains about the picture ID requirement in just about every other situation where the government or private entity requires it. Minorities seem to have no problem getting a picture ID when they want one so let them use it to register and vote too!

don't get out much, eh? Minorities, especially rural minorities and elderly minorities have an EXTREMELY difficult time getting photo ID in a lot of states.

Will Robinson wrote:I find it laughable to say there is such a small number of fraudulent votes when tactics like preventing proper identification are used. Some places have more votes cast than citizens!

The reason Texas won't use certain ID's is because liberal politicians have made it possible for non citizens to have those forms of ID!
So of course they don't want to accept the ID that non citizens have been provided.

If cost is a factor then surely we can subsidize people in poverty to get a proper ID and enable us to filter out fraudulent vote.

The alternative to requiring proof of citizenship to vote is to open our electoral process up to foreigners.....then all the left has to do is open the borders up to predominantly left leaning voters....oh....wait....that part is done too....

As I said, no proper way to filter out fraudulent votes is the goal and the excuse you use is weak if your intention is to limit voting to real citizens, but I suspect that is not your goal...
And if the millions of Mexicans that are flooding in voted predominantly republican you would be screaming DNA ID and electric fencing!

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:I find it laughable to say there is such a small number of fraudulent votes when tactics like preventing proper identification are used. Some places have more votes cast than citizens!

find me one example of this, proven, with a substantial population that couldn't be called a paperwork glitch(say, over 5000 citizens).

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote: The reason Texas won't use certain ID's is because liberal politicians have made it possible for non citizens to have those forms of ID!
So of course they don't want to accept the ID that non citizens have been provided.

you really think, in the current environment, a 'non-citizen' is going to risk going to a public office to register? Also, on a historical note, voting was not restricted to citizens until early in the 20th century.

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:The alternative to requiring proof of citizenship to vote is to open our electoral process up to foreigners.....then all the left has to do is open the borders up to predominantly left leaning voters....oh....wait....that part is done too....

see my comment above, and if you doubt me, look up voting laws circa 1880.

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:As I said, no proper way to filter out fraudulent votes is the goal and the excuse you use is weak if your intention is to limit voting to real citizens, but I suspect that is not your goal...
And if the millions of Mexicans that are flooding in voted predominantly republican you would be screaming DNA ID and electric fencing!

no, I wouldn't, and that is what separates the two camps. Mine NEVER attempts to supress votes.

Will Robinson wrote:

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:I find it laughable to say there is such a small number of fraudulent votes when tactics like preventing proper identification are used. Some places have more votes cast than citizens!

find me one example of this, proven, with a substantial population that couldn't be called a paperwork glitch(say, over 5000 citizens).

You, and your party, have proven time and time again that you will call any offense you desire to overlook a glitch.
My guess is you are fully aware of the validity of my assertion and have chosen the 5000 vote number as a means to once again, move the goal posts into a place that supports your claim.
I'm not interested in playing on your field with the magically moving goals. You do that too often and then disappear from the thread when called out.

Claiming something isn't illegal now because at one time it was legal is a really stupid irrelevant dodge! See slavery as a fine example....

And I don't just think illegals will register, I know that some do.

Riiiggghhhhtttttt.... because a black man with a billy club at a polling place pointing his club at white people telling them they are about to be ruled by a black man is not an act of intimidation at all!


And having the charges dropped by that black ruler has surely convinced him he shouldn't do it again....oh...never mind ...he did do it again...but wait! Slick said it never happens! So confusing!,
I guess I just need to remember that we live in reality land and slick lives in some alternate reality where he can simply proclaim things to make them true otherwise I would have to recognize slick is full of it.

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens.[1] While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presidential vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Census Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida,[2] and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

Some Americans argue that alien voting is a nonexistent problem or dismiss reported cases of non-citizen voting as unimportant because, they claim, there are no cases in which non-citizens "intentionally" registered to vote or voted "while knowing that they were ineligible."[6] Even if this latter claim were true-which it is not-every vote cast by a non-citizen, whether an illegal alien or a resident alien legally in the country, dilutes or cancels the vote of a citizen and thus disenfranchises him or her. To dismiss such stolen votes because the non-citizens supposedly did not know they were acting illegally when they cast a vote debases one of the most important Rights of citizens.[7]

The evidence is indisputable that aliens, both legal and illegal, are registering and voting in federal, state, and local elections. Following a mayor's race in Compton, California, for example, aliens testified under oath in court that they voted in the election.[8] In that case, a candidate who was elected to the city council was permanently disqualified from holding public office in California for soliciting non-citizens to register and vote.[9] The fact that non-citizens registered and voted in the election would never have been discovered except for the fact that it was a very close election and the incumbent mayor, who lost by less than 300 votes, contested it.[10]

Similarly, a 1996 congressional race in California may have been stolen by non-citizen voting.[11] Republican incumbent Bob Dornan was defending himself against a spirited challenger, Democrat Loretta Sanchez. Sanchez won the election by just 979 votes, and Dornan contested the election in the U.S. House of Representatives. His challenge was dismissed after an investigation by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform turned up only 624 invalid votes by non-citizens who were present in the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) database because they had applied for citizenship, as well as another 124 improper absentee ballots.[12] The investigation, however, could not detect illegal aliens, who were not in the INS records.

The "Quick Ticket"
Non-citizen voting is likely growing at the same rate as the alien population in the United States; but because of deficiencies in state law and the failure of federal agencies to comply with federal law, there are almost no procedures in place that allow election officials to detect, deter, and prevent non-citizens from registering and voting. Instead, officials are largely dependent on an "honor system" that expects aliens to follow the law. There are numerous cases showing the failure of this honor system.

The frequent claim that illegal aliens do not register in order "to stay below the radar"[16] misses the fact that many aliens apparently believe that the potential benefit of registering far outweighs the chances of being caught and prosecuted. Many district attorneys will not prosecute what they see as a "victimless and non-violent" crime that is not a priority.[17]

On the benefit side of the equation, a voter registration card is an easily obtainable document-they are routinely issued without any checking of identification-that an illegal alien can use for many different purposes, including obtaining a driver's license, qualifying for a job, and even voting.[18] The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, for example, requires employers to verify that all newly hired employees present documentation verifying their identity and legal authorization to work in the United States.[19] In essence, this means that new employees have to present evidence that they are either U.S. citizens or legal aliens with a work permit. The federal I-9 form that employers must complete for all new employees provides a list of documentation that can be used to establish identity-including a voter registration card.[20]

How aliens view the importance of this benefit was illustrated by the work of a federal grand jury in 1984 that found large numbers of aliens registered to vote in Chicago. As the grand jury reported, many aliens "register to vote so that they can obtain documents identifying them as U.S. citizens" and have "used their voters' cards to obtain a myriad of benefits, from social security to jobs with the Defense Department."[21] The U.S. Attorney at the time estimated that there were at least 80,000 illegal aliens registered to vote in Chicago, and dozens were indicted and convicted for registering and voting.[22]

callmeslick wrote:no, I wouldn't, and that is what separates the two camps. Mine NEVER attempts to supress votes.