DescentBB

Thought I'd set this thread up instead of having my eco-thread totally derailed.

As most of us already know, Detroit is on the road to Chapter 11. While some beloved personages here would love to put the blame on a Republican Governor the truth of the matter is the Governor is simply the mortician putting the corpse into the casket. Detroit quite simply no longer has the revenue stream to support itself. Forty years of mismanagement, greed and corrupt leaders have all wielded the hammer to drive the nails into the coffin.
The first hint was 35 or so years ago when Detroit became black and Democratically controlled. This is when I first heard the term "White Flight" as the working people (both black and white but mostly white) decided to vote with their feet and left the city for the suburbs. At that time there was no indication by the powers in charge that maybe they should address the issue of people moving out of the city. The very people that worked and paid Detroit the taxes it needed to operate. Like politicians everywhere, Detroit leadership ignored the slowly dwindling revenue stream and let someone else further down the road handle it.

The other coffin nail was in true Democratic fashion, Detroit forged bonds with unions and in return for votes, the City promised their workers pensions that paid really well. The problem of course was the pensions were not funded into a stand alone trust but were paid by city tax revenues. Over the years this unfunded liability rose to be billions of dollars. So what we have today is a city that is choking on debt with no revenue to pay for it. So what does a good bunch of Democrats do? Why they look for handouts elsewhere. Unfortunately for them Jennifer Granholm, elite Democtratic ex-Governor, is no longer in charge, Republican Rick Snyder is.

Snyder, when asked for money, told Detroit if you want this money you are going to have to show me you can cut waste and bring your costs in line with your revenues. So for a year or so Detroit tried to do so but their biggest payment issues were with the unions. I don't think I have to explain how that all turned out. So when Detroit could not fix it's problem, Snyder appointed a emergency manager. He to tried to negotiate to get Detroits costs in line with revenues. When the neckbeards still wouldn't cut their costs then the only option left was Chapter 11. And thus we are where we are at today.

A state judge (democrat) has blocked the proceedings but I suspect it will be a temporary thing until a higher court over rules her.

So why is Detroit a canary in the coal mine? Well other cities are faced with the same dilemma. Chicago being a prime example. Catering to unions when a city is losing money is never a good scenario for a balanced budget. Our country is in the same boat but there is hope that the squandering of our fiscal health will be dealt with. Feel free to comment as you please

Can you keep up with the news cycle it's a chapter 9 and the ruling has already been over turned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/2 ... 40734.html?

according to Detroit's own reports there are 55 families moving out of the city every day.

Detroit is just an example of what the U.S. should be bracing for if we continue down this path.

CUDA wrote:according to Detroit's own reports there are 55 families moving out of the city every day.

Detroit is just an example of what the U.S. should be bracing for if we continue down this path.

well, you're batting 500, CUDA. This is, in short, an example of what happens when a mass exodus from a city or other incorporated entity occurs. That is all that happened with Detroit. They rapidly lost population, going from 2.2 million to a little over 600,000 in a couple of decades. It had little to do with mismanagement or any other political buzzwords. The tax base was decimated due to the radical rearrangement of the auto industry in the world. Now, could there be valuable lessons around pinning an economy to too few core industries? Sure. Could there be lessons around analysis of the cost of long term contractual obligations? Of course. But, as with many issues in the nation, and heck, even on this little board, too many wish to make a political issue out of something which really isn't. The Detroit example speaks to demographics, economics and the balance between local and Federal government. Some of that is political in nature, but most isn't. If one wished to use Detroit as a viewing window into current politics, it speaks mightily to the need to plan the economic future, and maintain a middle class. Of course, only one major political figure talks about those things, and most of you feel that everything he does is evil.
Ponder away.

I don't think Obama is evil exactly. I'd probably use a lot of other words first. He's just the dishonest, socialist/liberal idealist, ecumenicist/antichrist politician for the job. I think there are some evil things at work behind him, though. Americans need to stop jamming complexities into Hollywood-esqu characterizations of good and evil and realize what the social and political structures being developed mean in future reality for everyone when harnessed to and multiplied by human nature. I'm pretty sure America is going to out-do some of the notoriously evils in the history books, which happened in other countries, but most people aren't going to see it because of how it will be marketed in the official sources and the popular media. Somewhere, or perhaps someday, people on a larger scale may know it for what it is, and it will not speak well of us.

Just an educated guess. I know how bad it can get in relatively tame circles in small cities and small organizations. Some principles just can't be compromised if life is to be good or bearable.

Failure to adapt to the contraction is a failure of management…plain & simple. If Detroit was a business, people would be demanding heads.

Of course, only one major political figure talks about those things,

I agree, and he talks and talks and talks. doesn't do anything, but he sure talks about it

and most of you feel that everything he does is evil.
Ponder away.

funny I never said what he did was evil. Its just wrong

Spidey wrote:Failure to adapt to the contraction is a failure of management…plain & simple. If Detroit was a business, people would be demanding heads.

You mean the 100, 000 creditors and the 20billion they are owed?

Well, yes I guess…when you lend money after bad…

Spidey wrote:Well, yes I guess…when you lend money after bad…

So corporate America gets no blame for the destruction of the middle class? Those very companies who don't want to pay full time wages, or health benefits, or retirement pensions? Those very companies who embraced global arbitrage and cheap foreign labor, but failed to recognize that if Americans no longer have good paying jobs, they don't have the money to buy the very products they're trying to sell? The very same corporations who made cheaper and cheaper poor quality products (I thinking the automobile industry here), then wondered why Americans bought foreign? The very same corporate America that owns our government and makes policy to serve those same said corporations and not the people it was created for? Americans are their own worst enemy. Ask a temp worker the next time if they're happy living and working where they are right now. The odds are most workers you talk to right now are temps., barely living paycheck to paycheck, have no health care and no hope of ever retiring.

Heads will roll!!

Spidey wrote:Failure to adapt to the contraction is a failure of management…plain & simple. If Detroit was a business, people would be demanding heads.

unfortunately, a lot of contracts had been written, with long-term costs. Yes, that is management, but in business, that sort of thing happens all the time.

So in the face of all of Detroits fiscal problems, what does its city council find time to do?:

"Detroit's City Council has come under fire for spending time this week writing, voting and passing a resolution supporting a federal investigation into George Zimmerman instead of focusing on its own financial blunders and ballooning crime rate."

Yup, if you ever wondered why they are failing this is just another example of racist leadership more concerned with non-existent white on black racism to show their fellow black citizens they (council) are doing something about it. How pathetic.

Don't forget te 613 million they are going to spend on the new arena for the redwings

woodchip wrote:So in the face of all of Detroits fiscal problems, what does its city council find time to do?:

"Detroit's City Council has come under fire for spending time this week writing, voting and passing a resolution supporting a federal investigation into George Zimmerman instead of focusing on its own financial blunders and ballooning crime rate."

Yup, if you ever wondered why they are failing this is just another example of racist leadership more concerned with non-existent white on black racism to show their fellow black citizens they (council) are doing something about it. How pathetic.

I'd agree, it is a sign of dithering in the face of impending doom, but after the state take-over, what power does Detroit city council even hold? Legit question, I don't know the answer.

CUDA wrote:Don't forget te 613 million they are going to spend on the new arena for the redwings

I don't know about that sum exactly, but a sports attraction would bring in a boatload of tourist business if it were successful, so that actually seems like a few steps in the right direction for a city. They still need a sound economic base, in industry, though.

Ummm Spidey, Red Wings already have a stadium in Detroit at the Joe Louis Arena. As such your caveat does not apply. If the Red Wings owner wants to spend his own dime building it, all well and good. If Detroit taxpayers have to help foot the bill, then at this time it would not be appropriate.

Here's something I haven't heard for a long time. No camping laws suddenly being enforced. Quite a few cities still have them on the books. That used to be a rampant problem during the Depression. Now it's going on in Portland, OR. People living and camping on the City Hall steps. Sure, there's the usual vagabonds, occupiers and homeless, but quite a few of them are people who can't earn enough money to pay for rent or a mortgage. The sign of the times maybe? We've even got people camping in the wild areas of our own little suburbia. Not something I saw going on 18 years ago either.

woodchip wrote:Ummm Spidey, Red Wings already have a stadium in Detroit at the Joe Louis Arena. As such your caveat does not apply. If the Red Wings owner wants to spend his own dime building it, all well and good. If Detroit taxpayers have to help foot the bill, then at this time it would not be appropriate.

Agreed.

I apologize for Spidey's ignorance.

All us superheroes look alike.