DescentBB

This may not be the thread that the topic deserves (it's "the one that it needs" ), but I just came across a video that I thought was provocative.

Link: Turning Old Gas Guzzlers Into Electric Vehicles

It's a guy who has converted at least two gasoline cars to electric. I feel like this video is putting us on, for starters, because they leave a few points out (cost of conversion, and cost of regular electricity use, and how the hell a guy who supposedly has only ever changed his oil a time or two feels so comfortable making such large changes to the insides of a car, in addition to extensive body work), but actually the larger reason for starting this topic is that I feel like we're being told that electric cars are the non-polluting future when as far as I know they are not.

Had my lunch cut short before I could finish my thought...

Anyway, unless it can be shown that electrical plants produce this electricity with less in the way of fumes than just doing it with an efficient gasoline engine... and with the current administration actually reducing our number of power plants, and no more nuclear power plants coming down the pike as far as I know... how does this work?

I'm no engineer, but I've always felt that when choosing between electric and combustion, combustion is the way to go because of the amount of energy involved. Personally I would love to get down and dirty and convert a truck to hydrogen obtained through electrolysis, with nothing on-board but a water tank and maybe a few additives (ideally not). It just needs some ingenious, efficient method of electrolysis.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewab ... -any-speed

There are several issues with the "greenness" of electric cars. Your first comment about generating the necessary electricity to charge them is one. But the lithium batteries are a problem themselves, both with mining the lithium from the earth, the fact we don't have a lot of lithium around in the first place, and with eventual disposal of the batteries once they've worn out. There are a couple of more issues in the above article concerning the rare earth metals needed to produce the electric motor magnets and the extra energy required just to make the aluminum in the car.

I think fuel cells will eventually be the way to go, but we still need a clean way to generate the electricity needed to get the hydrogen from the electrolysis process.

still, I suspect that the pollution produced/energy produced is FAR, FAR lower from an electric plant, even a damn coal burning plant, that it is for automotive internal combustion engines.

I would tend to think not. A gold star to the first person to hunt down all of the numbers!

It's up for debate ST.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/07/29/e ... cars-green

But what happens if a lot more people bought electric cars and started charging them at night, or in the day at work? Can the grid even put out that kind of sustained power if say, even 50% of Americans, started driving electric cars daily and wanted super fast charging at those higher required voltages? That's not including home A/C loads in the summer and electric heat loads in the winter either.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwil ... -together/

Batteries don't last.

typical replacement is 60,000 miles and they cost about $4k to replace and they aren't a warranty item on manufactured vehicle. you will typically only get 80-100 miles on a charge then you will need to recharge it for 4 hours. so if you drive a typical 15K a year you will spend about 200 hours a year charging your vehicle, then if you live at home you must install a 220 volt charging station (if you want to spend only 4 hours on a charge) and that is about 1K otherwise you spend 8-10 hours charging it on a 110 system.. I know Honda has a new Fit EV that costs $37K, since the old fit is only $17K it would seem to me that the additional $20K will by a little bit of Gas.

the ONLY reason that the manufacturers are making fully electric vehicle is to beat the government at it's own game of achieving mileage standards. they don't produce many of them. they lose money on most of them, but it allows the total brand to meet standards.. electric is not practical or feasible at this time.

TC, another couple things to consider:

1) What happens when a power outage occurs just when you need to recharge the car?

2) With a aging electrical grid, what additional strain will a large number recharging cars put on it?

3) How much more will electrical rates increase with all the additional usage?

all of the above are valid questions/concerns at this moment. However, in the longer view, which we'd all be wise to be taking, gasoline will run out long before electricity, due to automotive expansion in India and China alone, and the nations left clinging to a gasoline based fleet will pay the price. Also, as I pondered above, the emissions of electric plants per unit power are likely negligible compared to auto emissions, which benefits the local environment(global environment won't benefit because of India, China et al), and the electrical grid is long overdue to be upgraded, so that is sort of frivolous concern.

woodchip wrote:TC, another couple things to consider:

1) What happens when a power outage occurs just when you need to recharge the car?

2) With a aging electrical grid, what additional strain will a large number recharging cars put on it?

3) How much more will electrical rates increase with all the additional usage?

Yep. All good things to worry about. Our system here is already aging and prone to failure occasionally. Plus, there are the squirrels.

Electric cars are not a panacea. I still think fuel cell technology will be the eventual winner, because gasoline and natural gas will run out in the future and we will need a high speed, high mileage solution to get around. Unless we invent the teleporter......