Page 1 of 1
a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:10 pm
by callmeslick
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:48 pm
by Foil
[Fixed the link for you.]
Back in high school, the church youth group I was involved in did a similar experiment. We were asked by another church to pose as teens who might not be treated well by their church. So my group got dressed up as punks/goths/skaters/stoners, and attended their service under the guise of being an inner-city group bussed in. It was interesting, because the results were fairly polar - some went out of their way to welcome us, and others kept their distance and muttered things.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:51 pm
by vision
Plot Twist: The pastor later comes out as an atheist.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:52 pm
by callmeslick
thanks for the fix!
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:27 pm
by callmeslick
vision wrote:Plot Twist: The pastor later comes out as an atheist.
or, is converted to one, after this sorry show by 'Christians'.......
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:43 pm
by Grendel
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:46 pm
by callmeslick
damn, Grendel, you take all the fun out of it.........I was afraid Snopes would look into it. The story was too perfect to have not been in the major news cycles. Oh, well!
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:58 pm
by Grendel
Well, the story can still be pondered IMO. Lots of verified similar stories around
Probably rooted in
human group behavior.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:00 pm
by Foil
Ah, of course. Should have known.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:15 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
What the hell is the point of coming up with fiction like that, anyway? Geez, find a real story.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:34 pm
by callmeslick
it does illustrate a very valid point, Thorne. At least from the perspective of this frequent church-going observer......
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:44 pm
by vision
Church is just another byproduct of groupism. It is where like-minded people go to reinforce their subjective morality and feel exclusive.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:48 pm
by callmeslick
not sure I completely agree, Vision, there is a more complex dynamic than that. Folks are there for a variety of reasons, and the makeup of congregations varies widely in terms of diversity. Some may, indeed be monolithic and group-think in nature. I don't really see that with the Methodists I have been associated with during my life.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:35 pm
by Will Robinson
callmeslick wrote:... The story was too perfect to ...
Too perfect by what standard? Interesting.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:59 am
by callmeslick
Will Robinson wrote:callmeslick wrote:... The story was too perfect to ...
Too perfect by what standard? Interesting.
giant congregation, zero positive response, etc, etc. Real life would be more nuanced, or at least I would hope........
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:28 pm
by Ferno
What amazes me is so many people are willing to write this off as fake. It might be, it might not be. We just don't know.
But it shows a little something about humanity. A person isn't supposed to act good because they might 'burn in hell'; a person is supposed to act good because it's the human thing to do.
Imagine yourself in his shoes for a minute. What would you think of others if they looked down on you? Treated you like street garbage? Or maybe they only treated you well because of a certain date on the calendar? You wouldn't think too highly of people after a while, would you...
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:47 pm
by Will Robinson
Or, if it is fake, it shows something entirely different about a different group of people. Like the ones who would find it to be the perfect thing to wave in someone else's face...
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:29 pm
by Ferno
the only people who would feel angered by that are the same people who treat others like crap.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:49 am
by Will Robinson
Ferno wrote:the only people who would feel angered by that are the same people who treat others like crap.
And those who don't like bullies.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:53 pm
by Ferno
uh.. right. because people that expect others to be human are bullies.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:42 pm
by Will Robinson
Ferno wrote:uh.. right. because people that expect others to be human are bullies.
I'm afraid I don't follow your point.
If the story is fake but someone takes pleasure in taunting Christians with a story they fabricated, or someone is pleased because they think they have found a true story that accomplishes the same, then they are bullies.
That's what I was talking about.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:52 am
by callmeslick
bullying seems WAY too strong a term. In fact, most people I know who read that article and mentioned it to me ARE Christians, who are keenly aware that there is a detachment from the message at times.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:23 am
by Will Robinson
callmeslick wrote:bullying seems WAY too strong a term. In fact, most people I know who read that article and mentioned it to me ARE Christians, who are keenly aware that there is a detachment from the message at times.
Why the emphasis on being a Christian as if it disproves anything? Christians can be bullies too.
The difference in your scenario is did they read the story, recognize a problem and try to correct it?
Or do they merely repeat it without even checking to see if it is true in a rush to take pleasure in taunting the people they think the story will aggravate?
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:18 am
by callmeslick
more a matter of self-reflection, Will.......sort of 'there but the grace of God go I.....'
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:01 am
by Ferno
Will Robinson wrote:I'm afraid I don't follow your point.
If the story is fake but someone takes pleasure in taunting Christians with a story they fabricated, or someone is pleased because they think they have found a true story that accomplishes the same, then they are bullies.
That's what I was talking about.
will.. my point is, taunting someone doesn't automatically equate to bullying. If you even grazed that road, you'd know it.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:24 am
by Jeff250
This is exactly like a story that you would find in a book of sermon illustrations, whose stories aren't necessarily factual either, but always illustrate some moral point. If you see bullying of Christians in this story, I'd more closely examine your own biases!
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:50 pm
by Sergeant Thorne
Allow me to interject my perspective, for what it's worth. I am not a regular church-goer. I've been to a number of churches, but at least half of my Sundays spent in any sort of assembly have been at someone else's home or my own. I have two problems with this story. The first is that I think learning things from a story (or movie) that is not entirely based in reality is a questionable practice, because the learning process is potentially tainted to whatever degree by things that are artificial or not real. You're learning from someone else's idea of what reality is, rather than learning from reality itself. I won't say there is no value there, but there are side-effects.
Secondly, I believe these stories and studies are designed to lead to the wrong conclusion, a conclusion incidentally to be appreciated by believers and non-believers alike. The conclusion is that these congregations are human too and these problems exist in church as well as outside of church. Then we have the social experiment that Foil was involved in to the same end, with the laudable goal of decreasing or eliminating this behavior. That's all wrong. The truth is this symptom speaks to the health of the church, not the individual people in it. The church has failed, in these cases. The people who should be becoming like Christ are found to not be like Christ at all. Do everyone a favor and close the doors.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:34 pm
by Foil
Sergeant Thorne wrote:Then we have the social experiment that Foil was involved in to the same end, with the laudable goal of decreasing or eliminating this behavior. That's all wrong.
How so? (Just curious.)
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:08 am
by Duper
Probably Fake. Snopes has some
good insights on its origin; including the photo.
Excellent point being made though.
**Edit**
Whoops. Missed Grendel's post.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:16 am
by Will Robinson
Jeff250 wrote:This is exactly like a story that you would find in a book of sermon illustrations, whose stories aren't necessarily factual either, but always illustrate some moral point. If you see bullying of Christians in this story, I'd more closely examine your own biases!
I'm not sure if that last part is for me but if so...it isn't anything
in the story that has me thinking about bullies. It is where and how the story is offered that makes me question the motives of the offer.
Slick has a history of posting examples of the failures and offenses of certain groups and he doesn't do it for nurturing purposes...he has a penchant for taunting, poke a finger in the eye kind of stuff.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:53 am
by Spidey
I don’t see bullying of Christians “in” the story, but I do see some bullying of Christians in spreading this kind of story, if it is in fact fake.
Or not....even.
Re: a story to ponder...
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:17 am
by DoTheGeek
Will Robinson wrote:Or, if it is fake, it shows something entirely different about a different group of people. Like the ones who would find it to be the perfect thing to wave in someone else's face...
^^^
Why is there even discussion pertaining to the intended point(ing of fingers) of the fake experiment here anyway? Fabricated information is dishonorable information and should not be allowed to invoke the discussions it seeks to. This thread should have been strictly about the reliability of the information once the debunking articles were posted. As for questions as to the reliability of the information: a falsely-accredited image, no mention of the church, and no record of the existence of this pastor? What question is there? Even if the story is based on a real one, the phony info discredits it.