DescentBB

Our current unemplyment is about 7.3 percent according to the latest government numbers. And I cannot find any qualified applicants for positions I have open.

Ive been trying to hire 3 new technicians for over 3 months now and have not been able to get any decent applicants. In the past I would get 15-20 applications a week for an opening all of them qualified, but I havent had that many in the last 3 months, and out of those only 2 had ANY experience in the field. I'm getting people from out of state applying for jobs that have zero experience.

I'm like WTF?

we have a monthly corporation managers meeting from our 17 locations and we had a discussion about this subject and the response was the same from every. Same problems. I dont get it.our economy it anemic unemployment has hardly gone down in 5 years and yet no one is wanting to work. Have we gotten so used to sitting back and collecting free benefits from the government that we dont feel we need to work? Im trying to run and grow a business and this is killing me. I currently have 5 openings that need filled and I'm having to wear so many hats and am putting in so many hours that I came home the other day to my wife in tears. She's afraid I'm going to kill myself. literally. And I'm not sure she isnt right. Not sure how much longer I can keep up this pace. I'm almost 53. I shouldnt have to be working this hard

CUDA wrote:...no one is wanting to work.

Sorry man, there seems to be an enormous hole in your story.

CUDA wrote:I cannot find any qualified applicants for positions I have open...

Ive ... not been able to get any decent applicants.

I'm getting people from out of state applying for jobs that have zero experience.

Seems like there are plenty of people who want to work. You know, in a free market, this is when you raise the pay to entice better applicants. You love a free market, right?

Is it blame Obama time? (trick question, it's always blame Obama time.)

Apparently you didnt get it.

People are applying to maintain their unemployment benefits. I'm guessing in your occupation you haven't had to hire or fire too many people. After a few years of doing it, you learn to tell when someone is really looking for work. Usually the first indicator is when they dont respond when you try to contact them for an interview. Ive been doing this for too many years. I know the signs.
Apparently you don't

Cuda, maybe what you need to do is start a in house training program. Or contact the college's and university's to see if they have a industrial program that might meld with your business

I've tried job corp in the past. But they usually turn out to be a bad hire.
Seems a certain entity does not require that a student learns anything there, they can just sit around texting on their cell phones., And not participating in class if they want This is coming from the two job Corp intructors that I've hired. The local CC I have had better luck with though.

and I do inhouse train, but I need to be able to replace those people before I move them up

a friend of mine owns a car dealership and what he does is steal employee's from other car dealerships by offering them more money. Just a thought.

I'm with woodchip on this. Go after and make offers to the employees you want, don't wait for them to submit applications. [This can be done professionally; it doesn't have to be under-handed.]

One thing that I've found has changed (just over the couple of decades I've been working) is that the usual job-seeking and hiring methodology of "post a job ad -> seeker applies -> employer reviews applications -> interview -> hire" isn't the norm anymore. The usual resumé/application system is something I rarely use, because I've found that I can do much better by figuring out where I want to work, and just walking in and introducing myself to a manager.

CUDA wrote:Apparently you didnt get it.

People are applying to maintain their unemployment benefits. I'm guessing in your occupation you haven't had to hire or fire too many people. After a few years of doing it, you learn to tell when someone is really looking for work. Usually the first indicator is when they dont respond when you try to contact them for an interview. Ive been doing this for too many years. I know the signs.
Apparently you don't

BS and you know it. Unemployment is degrading and doesn't pay that much. Few people want to stay on it, unless they like living in poverty. It costs money to get that training you so desire in your potential employees. Unemployment benefits aren't enough to cover technical college tuition AND support a family, so they can't afford the training. It's a chicken and egg problem. They don't have the training and can't afford it, you want your new hires already trained, but you don't want to take on the expense of training. You're stuck I guess, unless you train someone you think will be a good, permanent employee.

tunnelcat wrote:

BS and you know it. Unemployment is degrading and doesn't pay that much. Few people want to stay on it, unless they like living in poverty.

Thats BS to as I know people who milk unemployment while working for cash. Last thing they want is to get a official job so they do just as Cuda says.

Still BS. I knew a friend who had to collect unemployment for awhile because his job was outsourced. He felt a failure and thought it was a degrading experience having to stoop so low as to get monetary assistance from the government just to feed his family. He got the hell off of it as soon as he was able. It wasn't a pleasant vacation for him as you seem to think, nor did he want to even take it in the first place. But he had to survive.

I didn't say all people moonlight off unemployment now did I ?

woodchip wrote:I didn't say all people moonlight off unemployment now did I ?

I'm going to guess it's just half the people moonlighting, which would conveniently be those goshdarn liberals, right? Here is the thing, people on both sides abuse the system for similar reasons.

The first type are the people of "welfare culture" who abuse the system because they feel entitled given their fairly hopeless social-economic situations. (Before that comment erupts into a thread of it's own, we've been though this before. There are real, significant reasons some people can't just work hard and use their determination to break out of the cycle. It's not always laziness or ignorance that keeps them there. Upward social mobility is complex.)

Then there are the second type who abuse the system because of a different flavor of entitlement. These are the people who are completely against government programs who, whenever they have the chance, take part in every single government program available to them even if they break the law to do it. The reason? The government owes them because damnit they don't want those shifty politicians taking their hard earned dollars for taxes that support losers. They don't want to pay taxes either and will do everything possible to avoid that too.

If I were to guess (just a guess) I would say there are an equal number of abusers on each side of the spectrum. I've met both of these kinds of people with their entitlement mentality and I'm sure you have too.

Let your competitors weed out the bad and provide the training. Hire the good ones away from them. It's business, you aren't stealing, you are competing.

Also, advertise outside your town in the right places...an employee who can move to you with skills from a lower paying market, and is willing to do so because you are giving him a raise and a little something to travel on, is going to be a better investment for you and will have some loyalty right away for your helping him move up...

So Cuda (not gonna goof around on this one here), you say you have resumes with qualified applicants, but less than your required experience.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to give at least one of them a shot in a practicum or volunteer setup? That way, you're not paying them anything, you get to see how they work, and they get the experience. Because by the looks of it, you're pretty desperate to offload some work and I'm assuming that you're a fan of the old ways. You could look at this as a chance to take on an apprentice.

Are millennials a drag on Portland's economy? Yes, says one business leader

Molly Young | myoung@oregonian.com
Oct 3, 2013 6:50:00 PM
A generational shift is reshaping the workforce -- and businesses today are grappling with the changes.

Thousands of baby boomers retire every day in the U.S., while 20-somethings make up an increasingly larger share of the labor pool.

Gresham-area business leaders and workplace experts weighed in Thursday on what the changes mean for their organizations and for the economy. The annual Gresham Economic Summit, sponsored by the area Chamber of Commerce, focused on the trends.

John Carter, chairman of the Oregon Business Plan, said the newest generation of workers aren't interested in the career path that once was the norm. Much of Gen Y lacks the drive that defined older cohorts of workers, he said. "We've raised a generation that believes the only place you break a sweat is L.A. Fitness," he said.

Instead, he said, young grads are flowing into Portland for the lifestyle -- not for jobs. College grads are working as baristas or camping outside City Hall, said Carter, board chairman for Schnitzer Steel Industries Inc., the global metal recycling business based in Portland.

Gen Y
More on John Carter's take on 20-somethings, plus join the conversation and share your perspective.
Also, read about a 2012 Portland State study that refutes Carter's views.

Part of the problem, Carter said, is the training young workers are receiving. "We've let our students follow their muse, but their muse may not be going anywhere."
Others offered more measured views.

The aging workforce is a real issue for Boeing Co., said Mike Starr, director of manufacturing for the aircraft maker's Portland area and Helena facilities. Starr said 40 percent of the operations' skilled machinists are 55 or older, and that number jumps to 59 percent if workers 50 and older are included.

Recruiting younger workers interested in manufacturing is difficult, he said, and the company has had to advertise some openings nationwide. He said many young people  don't consider careers in the industry, in part because fewer high schools are teaching skills needed for the trade.

For produce wholesaler Organically Grown Co., the workforce challenges are wide-ranging -- from making sure entry-level employees make it to work on time to providing leadership opportunities for the company's emerging talent.

Josh Hinerfeld, chief executive, said the Gresham company's main issue is handling growth. The business grew four-fold in eight years, he said, and now employs 200. The company tries to address many issues during the hiring process.

"It’s got to start with fit," he said, "then aptitude, then skills."

--Molly Young

 

Cuda, I think one of the main draw backs to today's educational system, is the educators focusing on preparing students for college to the exclusion of all else. I'm wondering how many schools still teach industrial arts or auto mechanic. It's like getting your hands dirty is a no no at school. Unfortunately that philosophy is bearing a fruit that isn't very palatable. And no...illegal immigrants won't fill the skilled trade dept.

John Carter wrote:"We've raised a generation that believes the only place you break a sweat is L.A. Fitness," 

What a moron this guy is. What is the incentive for millennials to give a crap about anything? Look at what the previous generations have handed them (you know, all the stuff people on this board obsessively complain about). And it's not just the United States, Japan has this same problem, but x10. It's showing up in other developed countries too (Europe, Middle East, India, China, South America). This is the new rebellion of youth: instead of trying to do things differently than their parents they are simply more than happy to let it all burn down. The apathy in kids nowadays is surprisingly noticeable in pre-teens too, which is pretty darn scary. But, you can't really blame them. Look at the role models they have -- none. The previous generations did nothing to address environmental problems, social and financial inequality, there is no sense of justice, only corruption and greed. Take gay marriage and evolution in schools for example. These are no-brainers for kids yet they live in a culture where adults actually debate it. The older generation looks like idiots to them.

The perspective of the next generation is not only completely different than their parents, but completely different than any other generation to exist. They are the first truly global thinking generation. They literally have a language of their own. In the past it was certain words or phrases that were interjected into colloquial speech like "far out," "dig this," and all forms of jive talk. But with the rise of the Internet and SMS, kids can literally communicate in a text form unreadable to older people. It's quite amazing really.

This "problem" was predicted over 10 years ago. Although I'm not sure it's really a problem. The next generation doesn't have the ambition to continue the Imperialist agenda of the US? Sound cool to me! I am excited to see what will happen in the next 20 years. Should be interesting.

Part of the issue with the aging workforce is how most entities in the US have steadfastly refused to hire and train people to replace these aging workers because it is inefficient and costs more. And this has been an ongoing issue for a couple decades now, there are no 20-30 aged people qualified or gaining the qualifications to handle these positions because there is no interest on the part of the entities hiring to train and create a workforce able to handle it. They only wish to hire people that already know how to do everything expertly, preferably from having a huge amount of experience. The obvious problem being when you essentially demand credentials that equal 20+ years of experience in the exact field, it is more than just difficult for someone in their 20s to deliver it.

Hell, I've seen more than my share of job listings that require "4-5 years of experience," but precious few that allow for someone entry-level to get in and learn the position as they go. You can't tell me with a straight face that all those Boomers who are closing in on retirement age were already experienced when they were originally hired to those positions.

Yea, and there used to be a time when you trained someone to do a job, and they stuck around long enough to make it worth it, nowadays you simply have a never ending train of trainees.

Who is at fault…I’m sure there is much to go around.

Top Gun wrote:Hell, I've seen more than my share of job listings that require "4-5 years of experience," but precious few that allow for someone entry-level to get in and learn the position as they go. You can't tell me with a straight face that all those Boomers who are closing in on retirement age were already experienced when they were originally hired to those positions.

You are more likely to see employers offering training to rookies in times of a strong economy that is still trending upward because the employer sees a potential return on his investment.
Right now I'm in a position where I could add a guy or not, I decided to not add one right now because of the uncertainty. My personal wealth and short term profit margin is safer by not creating additional expenses and liabilities for myself in uncertain times. The long term isn't really adversely affected by that decision because I know I can get another guy when things start to turn around and the cash flow will be there to support the expense.

How many billions in stimulus money is the administration sitting on right now that could have been put into training grants for young people who would be coming out of those programs by now ready to fill jobs? Instead they hold it back as a slush fund to buy political favor from labor unions and other top donor special interests. Shovel ready... Heh! They are shoveling something alright!

Will Robinson wrote:How many billions in stimulus money is the administration sitting on right now that could have been put into training grants for young people who would be coming out of those programs by now ready to fill jobs?

Actually, I remember stimulus money for training a few years ago. I applied for some of this funding while looking for work in 2009 but there was very little to go around with a huge line of applicants. So maybe there wasn't enough partitioned for training? Would be interesting to find out.

What ever happened to apprenticeships? At lot of the building, construction and automotive trades had apprenticeship programs to train new workers. Why isn't that happening anymore? At least I haven't heard of it for quite a while. I'd think a job in those fields would be a really good long term job opportunity. It pays well too.

Unions still have apprentice programs. To get in tho you need a parent or a uncle (aunt) in the trades to get into it.

Why don't companies start something like that up, with a contract that says the trained worker has to stay for a certain length of time to make it worth the company's while? Unions are almost gone, so that training route is disappearing fast.

woodchip wrote:Unions still have apprentice programs. To get in tho you need a parent or a uncle (aunt) in the trades to get into it.

It seems like even this isn't enough lately. I have a friend who had an opportunity to join the electricians union, but he had to pay for his apprenticeship, like a tuition, for a rather sizable amount. It that is a sign of things to come we are in trouble. Let's see, pay the union thousands of dollars for training, work as an apprentice for a year, then get "put on the list" indefinitely afterwards without pay and still be expected to pay my dues? Umm, no thanks. This seems like a more and more common experience with the unions. It's a shame.

vision wrote:

woodchip wrote:Unions still have apprentice programs. To get in tho you need a parent or a uncle (aunt) in the trades to get into it.

It seems like even this isn't enough lately. I have a friend who had an opportunity to join the electricians union, but he had to pay for his apprenticeship, like a tuition, for a rather sizable amount. It that is a sign of things to come we are in trouble. Let's see, pay the union thousands of dollars for training, work as an apprentice for a year, then get "put on the list" indefinitely afterwards without pay and still be expected to pay my dues? Umm, no thanks. This seems like a more and more common experience with the unions. It's a shame.

Don't know about the electricians, but carpenters union works like this> First you don't pay anything. You do start off at about half the pay scale of a journeyman with pay increases every year until in 4 or 5 years you become a full journeyman. While working as a apprentice you are required to go to classes I think about 2 days a month (of which the contractor you work for still pays your wage).

vision wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:How many billions in stimulus money is the administration sitting on right now that could have been put into training grants for young people who would be coming out of those programs by now ready to fill jobs?

Actually, I remember stimulus money for training a few years ago. I applied for some of this funding while looking for work in 2009 but there was very little to go around with a huge line of applicants. So maybe there wasn't enough partitioned for training? Would be interesting to find out.

There are still billions sitting on the books (slush fund for buying votes).
Many millions of it has expired and rolled back into the general fund....to be wasted away on things that won't stimulate anything except the ruling class.
Many millions went into saving Union retirement funds and 'Cadillac insurance policies'.
Billions went to choice banks so they wouldn't lose their own money to ride out the recovery....they used it to buy up their smaller competitors and never loosened lending policy as was said they would.
And we still hear Dems talking about evil Repubs are fighting higher taxes to re-build infrastructure, bridges, etc

Same old ★■◆● different day.

Cuda, we're having the same issue.
There are a lot of unemployed people out there, but none have the skill set we require. My manager received something like 400 hits and not one fit the ticket.

Also, what ya'll need to understand that when a company is growing, you don't have time to train or apprentice someone into a position. That takes one to two years and in Cuda's case, that's a complete flip (or nearly) of job skills. Most of the time, those decisions are made at the "top" and there is little time to prepare; you don't have a year train someone up.

I’d be happy if most people could just fill put a job application.

Skills…lol

lol well ...there's that too most certainly.

I'd like to know, how are people supposed to be trained in a field, when they can't afford to TAKE that training, even if they've graduated from high school with good grades? Hell, even a college degree now leaves people with a huge debt they can't pay off for a long time, if ever.

Spidey wrote:I’d be happy if most people could just fill put a job application.

were you being ironic on purpose??

Skills…lol

Heh, I had to read that a few times before I figured out what you meant.

Yea, my typing skills are pretty bad, good thing I don’t need them to do my job.

Edit: By the way JFTR…I would never disqualify a job applicant for a typo.

I'll echo everything vision has said. This is not a case of generational laziness. We are outright rebelling. A good number of us want to see the unemployment rate increase, because we have no reason to believe that the system our parents have so thoroughly invested in is going to do us a lick of good. Why so much as have faith in capitalism altogether? The sooner we all end up jobless and homeless, the sooner another system will be forced into its place. Are we going to assrape our children in the interest of our own survival and security as out parents have? No. We know what the raping feels like, and we needed to know what it feels like so we can give so much as a damn about it and want to do something about it.

DoTheGeek wrote:I'll echo everything vision has said. This is not a case of generational laziness. We are outright rebelling. A good number of us want to see the unemployment rate increase, because we have no reason to believe that the system our parents have so thoroughly invested in is going to do us a lick of good. Why so much as have faith in capitalism altogether? The sooner we all end up jobless and homeless, the sooner another system will be forced into its place. Are we going to assrape our children in the interest of our own survival and security as out parents have? No. We know what the raping feels like, and we needed to know what it feels like so we can give so much as a damn about it and want to do something about it.

good luck with this game plan.

callmeslick wrote:

DoTheGeek wrote:I'll echo everything vision has said. This is not a case of generational laziness. We are outright rebelling. A good number of us want to see the unemployment rate increase, because we have no reason to believe that the system our parents have so thoroughly invested in is going to do us a lick of good. Why so much as have faith in capitalism altogether? The sooner we all end up jobless and homeless, the sooner another system will be forced into its place. Are we going to assrape our children in the interest of our own survival and security as out parents have? No. We know what the raping feels like, and we needed to know what it feels like so we can give so much as a damn about it and want to do something about it.

good luck with this game plan.

I'll take your best wishes sincerely. My life is about something far greater than my life, so winning and losing are an entirely different thing.

a tip: Learn to present concepts in a lucid fashion. Communication works so much better. Your game plan is a steaming pile of gibberish, which amounts to 'I'm sitting on my ass until someone with a real set of balls changes things for me, and it all magically gets better'.

DoTheGeek wrote:... The sooner we all end up jobless and homeless, the sooner another system will be forced into its place. ...

Have you seen what the alternative systems use to grease their wheels with?
It's the people who were sitting around doing nothing, powerless, in despair under the previous system, because they provide the least resistance per pound of grease.

and, to what Will is saying, you suggest that you are going to sit around, jobless, until someone provides you with a solution. That is a recipe for YOU geting the hose.