DescentBB

After 7 months of plotting and planning(well-documented), 3 or more weeks of dithering and threatening, all the while making the Congress of the US appear similar to a 435-member giant clown car, we end up with a Clean Continuing resolution, an extension of the Debt Ceiling and a mealy-mouthed bit about income verification that all sides agree is but lip service asking for documentation from the IRS(who, ironically, rightwing types view as evil manifest on Earth). What was gained from this exercise:

1. Lots of otherwise blase citizens now realize, acutely, that Government actually IS important in a host of little ways, and some big ways.
2. The overall approval of the GOP has sunk to where John McCain said the other day, 'we are down to friends, family and paid staff'.
3. The citizenry is both appalled by, and on watch for, any future attempt to strong-arm legislative change by this method
4. The Tea Party faction has solidified their grip on, and identification with the GOP
5. Some Mexican joint near Capitol Hill got some great free publicity
6. International bankers are working on plans to move away from US currency,and clearly state the ONLY reason being irresponsible legislators.
7. Wealthy folks made a few more bucks, being the ones with the liquidity to ride the waves of the investment markets like surfers.
8. Massive money has been raised to defeat the GOP in the next election, which had only been trickling in up until late September.

My questions to you who self-identify as Conservatives:
Was it all worth it?
Did it help the nation?
Did it help rebuild the economy?
Was it 'good for small business'?
Do you think you can scrape this mess off your shoes by next November?

The only positive thing that comes out of this IMHO is the focus on the debt, that is usually ignored.


And you should probably address “Republicans” not Conservatives.

I chose the word, Spidey, because most old-line Republicans(I know a lot of those) are absolutely appalled. And, up in this neck of the woods, they are sitting on their wallets for the forseeable future. Not a good thing for the GOP.

oh, and selling the load of 'blame the Democrats' crap didn't work with these vets.
http://www.occupydemocrats.com/watch-ve ... ure-idiot/

Sarah Palin: the gift that keeps on giving.

Lol @ that site…talk about a circle jerk. (blog)

very true.....I actually go in and toss verbal grenades there at times(I hate purist liberals as much as purist right-wingers). Still, I couldn't resist bringing the video here!!

Your list is full of hyperbole and the actual effect on people who's life is not invested in the political fates of professional liars is nothing, they are yawning at the whole thing.
We knew they would pass a deal before causing any real harm.

It amounts to just another delivery of the same old ★■◆●.

Will Robinson wrote:Your list is full of hyperbole and the actual effect on people who's life is not invested in the political fates of professional liars is nothing, they are yawning at the whole thing.

dude, I'd just love to take you to my favorite bar on Chincoteague and watch the result of you spewing that pantload to the collection of furloughed contract workers that just went 3 weeks without a check, and others who lost 3 weeks of business at their hotels and restaurants during prime migratory bird watching season. Likewise, the women in North Carolina and several other states who couldn't get WIC checks cut for formula(thank you, Food Lion and others), or the.....oh, you get the point: you are a clueless, insensitive moron to have EVER thought about making the quoted statement.

It really is hilarious how the GOP just cost themselves a few dozen percentage points in opinion polls and accomplished quite literally nothing. Good work Mr. Cruz!

So, what you guys are saying is, Libertarians and other parties will have a fair shot in the next presidential election?

It would be pretty damn refreshing to see legitimate multi-party politics, as chaotic as the end result would probably be.

Can there be a Linux party?

I find your description to be convenient, Slick. I especially liked the part about John McCain being the canary for the Republican party.

Well, the mess isn't on my shoes. I self-identify as a conservative, so I think "Republican" is definitely the identifier you're wanting. I think it was planned, executed approximately as planned, and now we're on to the next phase. The damage has been done, but everyone can now say that it was bad but the worst crisis was averted, and be ready to consider any changes forthcoming as falling under the "acceptable consequences" or "acceptable losses" header. Kind of like destroying your plane in a crash landing but escaping with your life---ordinarily destroying an expensive plane in an instant would be life-shattering...

callmeslick wrote:..

dude, I'd just love to take you to my favorite bar on Chincoteague and watch the result of you spewing that pantload to the collection of furloughed contract workers that just went 3 weeks without a check,...

Lol!
I'm a contractor. I've had work interrupted by outside forces beyond my control.
I didn't sit in a bar whining about it, especially in week three if money was tight!
But if I was in there when some pompous local 3rd-generation-rich-guy living off his grandfathers estate brought another contractor in the bar and that other contractor said 'Suck it up, life goes on'. I'd nod in agreement and buy him a beer....and wonder what the ★■◆● he was doing with the sweaty fat rich guy who has his tampon in a twist.

Suck it up slick. Life goes on. If you were a contractor you would know that. And if you were specializing in government contracts you'd be buying the beers because you are paid well above the national average and three weeks would be nothing to you.

and others who lost 3 weeks of business at their hotels and restaurants during prime migratory bird watching season. Likewise, the women in North Carolina and several other states who couldn't get WIC checks cut for formula(thank you, Food Lion and others), or the.....oh, you get the point: you are a clueless, insensitive moron to have EVER thought about making the quoted statement.

Let's play this your way.
Links or it never happened. And no left wing 'journalist'/blog bullcrap. And if it was because Obama shut it off when he didn't have to you can go piss up a rope!

Isaac wrote:So, what you guys are saying is, Libertarians and other parties will have a fair shot in the next presidential election?

Try getting a third party onto the ballot in most states. Look at the rules in PA(a lot of electoral votes) for instance.

Will Robinson wrote:Links or it never happened. And no left wing 'journalist'/blog bullcrap. And if it was because Obama shut it off when he didn't have to you can go piss up a rope!

the most accurate newspaper references are to subscriber only sites in the Eastern Shore papers. Nice dance however, denying the obvious. If you don't think this shutdown hurt people, or that somehow Obama shut things down that he didn't have to, you are both delusional and uncaring. No surprise here.

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:Links or it never happened. And no left wing 'journalist'/blog bullcrap. And if it was because Obama shut it off when he didn't have to you can go piss up a rope!

the most accurate newspaper references are to subscriber only sites in the Eastern Shore papers. Nice dance however, denying the obvious. If you don't think this shutdown hurt people, or that somehow Obama shut things down that he didn't have to, you are both delusional and uncaring. No surprise here.

I learned the dance from you.
And I don't need to do anything at this point but to let your assertion that 'Obama didn't shut anything down that he didn't have to' just sit there in plain view because it is so blatantly false that it puts all your assertions into serious doubt....

Did some people legitimately suffer some hardship because of the shut down and it wasnt from anything Obama shut down to cause trouble? Sure here and there.
It happened in the push back over the ACA which, unlike a temporary shut down hardship, will create similar hardships for decades to come.

Thus the yawn.

Obama merely executed the situation that Congress left him. Nothing was in ANY WAY arbitrary, no matter how desperately that right-wing spin machine tries to portray it(I noticed this process starting a day or two ago.....including an absolutely disgusting hearing attacking a decent, honest Park Service chief). There are strict guidlines, Federal penalties for not adhering to same, and for lackeys to run around now claiming no one was hurt, or that any damage was Obama's fault is either delusional or dishonest.

so, to return to the OP---what was gained by this act of sheer lunacy from the far right?

2 benefits go to the democrats and the ACA. Although, I think the ACA might die a horribly slow death anyways, because it's very survival depends on people having the extra cash handy to finance the damn thing, and I honestly don't think at this time people are going to be able to afford it. Need some cash flowing at the same time.

EDIT: I think a lot of people looked at the ACA like it was gonna be a government cheese line.

Flip, you might be right on both counts, but really, what benefit came to the nation, from the actions of the party that has spouted BS for years about their laser focus on jobs and economic growth? Any job creation? They sucked out and essentially shredded 80 billion dollars from the US domestic economy that won't be coming back(costs of lost business), so no growth assistance that I can see? I was asking this before the end, and after it, now.....what the hell was supposed to come out of this goofy piece of political theater? And, for those whose answer is 'nothing', or who keep remaining silent, who's fault will it be when the GOP goes to defeat after defeat until it essentially implodes?

callmeslick wrote:Flip, you might be right on both counts, but really, what benefit came to the nation, from the actions of the party that has spouted BS for years about their laser focus on jobs and economic growth? Any job creation? They sucked out and essentially shredded 80 billion dollars from the US domestic economy that won't be coming back(costs of lost business), so no growth assistance that I can see? I was asking this before the end, and after it, now.....what the hell was supposed to come out of this goofy piece of political theater? And, for those whose answer is 'nothing', or who keep remaining silent, who's fault will it be when the GOP goes to defeat after defeat until it essentially implodes?

Or slick, they may have arisen the awareness of the low information voter about the dire situation our country is in with a 17 trillion debt hanging over it. That's 5 times what the country takes in with no attempt to pay it down and in fact all they want to do is keep raising it.

Here's my take:

The Republicans took a monstrously poor gamble, and predictably lost, badly. If the negative publicity from this lasts until next election, it could give the Democrats control of both the House and Senate.

...And that, frankly, is downright scary, because we've seen what happens (on both sides) when one party has the power to push everything they want, with little resistance.

callmeslick wrote:Flip, you might be right on both counts, but really, what benefit came to the nation, from the actions of the party that has spouted BS for years about their laser focus on jobs and economic growth? Any job creation? ...

Oh that is rich! You practically quoted Obama verbatim in his claim to be focused like a laser on jobs and economy. I actually was confused for a minute, thinking what the heck? Is he about to indict his guy?!? Freudian slippage perhaps?

Foil wrote:Here's my take:

The Republicans took a monstrously poor gamble, and predictably lost, badly. If the negative publicity from this lasts until next election, it could give the Democrats control of both the House and Senate.

...And that, frankly, is downright scary, because we've seen what happens (on both sides) when one party has the power to push everything they want, with little resistance.

That's what happens when no one can get along in at least a partial capacity. Someone takes the blame and the other side celebrates, and neither side learned any lessons.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... gn_id=yhoo

Foil wrote: If the negative publicity from this lasts until next election, it could give the Democrats control of both the House and Senate.

I don't think it was negative enough to have much of an impact. I don't know if you noticed, but right wing media is pretty much blaming Obama for the shutdown; if anything, this has made certain Republicans hate Obama more and Liberals hating Republicans more. Those with no real party affiliation might see this in two ways: 1) the morons in the house caused this. 2) Obama being in the white house caused this. Remember, people can rationalize anything to meet their needs.

Well, I certainly wasn't against a public heated debate over ACA, but this did seem like the worst possible time to do it. Seems idiotic when you think about it.

woodchip wrote:

callmeslick wrote:Flip, you might be right on both counts, but really, what benefit came to the nation, from the actions of the party that has spouted BS for years about their laser focus on jobs and economic growth? Any job creation? They sucked out and essentially shredded 80 billion dollars from the US domestic economy that won't be coming back(costs of lost business), so no growth assistance that I can see? I was asking this before the end, and after it, now.....what the hell was supposed to come out of this goofy piece of political theater? And, for those whose answer is 'nothing', or who keep remaining silent, who's fault will it be when the GOP goes to defeat after defeat until it essentially implodes?

Or slick, they may have arisen the awareness of the low information voter about the dire situation our country is in with a 17 trillion debt hanging over it. That's 5 times what the country takes in with no attempt to pay it down and in fact all they want to do is keep raising it.

our debt to GDP ratio is a fraction of virtually any European nation, and reflects a situation where we just spent to get out of a recession, and tax revenues are just starting to ramp back up.

Isaac wrote:

Foil wrote: If the negative publicity from this lasts until next election, it could give the Democrats control of both the House and Senate.

I don't think it was negative enough to have much of an impact. I don't know if you noticed, but right wing media is pretty much blaming Obama for the shutdown; if anything, this has made certain Republicans hate Obama more and Liberals hating Republicans more. Those with no real party affiliation might see this in two ways: 1) the morons in the house caused this. 2) Obama being in the white house caused this. Remember, people can rationalize anything to meet their needs.

I think your home state will be very informative in 2014, because I suspect some folks in the GOP there are about 12 months from a bit of a shock.

I hope not, but I know what you mean... we were close to allowing open carry for permit holders. Now that the liberals are running we might not get it. If Texas becomes a liberal state we'll be another California...

Isaac wrote:I don't think it was negative enough to have much of an impact. I don't know if you noticed, but right wing media is pretty much blaming Obama for the shutdown; if anything, this has made certain Republicans hate Obama more and Liberals hating Republicans more. Those with no real party affiliation might see this in two ways: 1) the morons in the house caused this. 2) Obama being in the white house caused this. Remember, people can rationalize anything to meet their needs.

Haven't they always hated AND blamed Obama...for everything? Granted, he's been a ship with a broken rudder, but I think your observation is spot on though. We'll see how things flesh out come the next election. Things must be pretty sour in Republicanville if Texas can elect a liberal.

Isaac wrote:I hope not, but I know what you mean... we were close to allowing open carry for permit holders. Now that the liberals are running we might not get it. If Texas becomes a liberal state we'll be another California...

I am not envisioning Texas becoming 'liberal', nor anything resembling California. However, with the dismal numbers Texas has for low-pay employment, low high-school graduation, poor healthcare delivery and the like, tossing out the GOP is very saleable. Add in the fact that HUGE money is being amassed for the purpose of turning Texas from red to blue on the political map, and you can see what I'm getting at.

Well, the Republicans haven't done so well with their anti-women, anti-immigrant and cut-social-services-to-the-bone platform. Some people in Texas must be getting fed up.

callmeslick wrote:

Isaac wrote:I hope not, but I know what you mean... we were close to allowing open carry for permit holders. Now that the liberals are running we might not get it. If Texas becomes a liberal state we'll be another California...

I am not envisioning Texas becoming 'liberal', nor anything resembling California. However, with the dismal numbers Texas has for low-pay employment, low high-school graduation, poor healthcare delivery and the like, tossing out the GOP is very saleable. Add in the fact that HUGE money is being amassed for the purpose of turning Texas from red to blue on the political map, and you can see what I'm getting at.

Ha... poor healthcare might be spot on, depending on your POV. Many Americans go to Mexico for cheap health care. I even tried going to the dentist there once... It was.. not clean... wires everywhere... anyway...

it's all Boehner's fault!!!
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/tea_par ... n_purpose/

what makes this one truly hilarious, is that if you go look for it, you can find an Onion article that said essentially the same thing. Only, the Onion is satire, and these folks think they are dealing in reality. w00t!!!

callmeslick wrote:I am not envisioning Texas becoming 'liberal', nor anything resembling California.

I am. And sooner than you would think. Texas and California have a lot more in common than most realize. But the main reason Texas is turning blue is because it has a couple major cities just like California. Why this makes a difference can be better explained by an interesting article in The Atlantic. I've lived in both Texas and California for a couple years each, so I also have first hand knowledge of the cultures. Texas is like a barometer for the entire nation. When it's political spectrum shifts it will signal a change of the entire country's balance. I give it another 20 years tops.

Also from the Atlantic, a good article on why "the media" is liberal.

Finally, Wendy Davis for Governor. <3

turning Blue to use the trendy term, is NOT the same as turning 'liberal' in any real sense. More Liberal? Sure, but don't conflate the mind-set of Texans with that of Californians any time soon(except for Austin, perhaps). The thing is, the Dems have a pretty wide range in the party, from centrist types like yours-truly, to rather extreme liberals like Dennis Kucinich. That is sort of why the GOP is self-destructing: they weeded out their diversity of thought, and became more and more a conservatives-only party. That just doesn't reflect the US populace, which in a recent poll was 73% self-identified as 'centrist'.

So centrist means you're for bloated govt and cradle to grave welfare. Glad I'm conservative.

woodchip wrote:So centrist means you're for bloated govt and cradle to grave welfare. Glad I'm conservative.

not for bloated anything, and nothing I've ever said would substantiate that bogus claim. I am for cradle to grave HEALTHCARE, but one of the goals of that would be to lessen the number of people needing other forms of welfare, as it would be a boon to all sectors of the economy. Nice try, care to make some more stuff up? You're having a slow day, so far.

You're right, I only had a slow post to use.