DescentBB

I know which updates they were. They were optional and I can't see them to un-install. Going to go back using Sys rrestore and see if that helps. Any other ideas?

I just nuked it and starting over!

If this is related to .net (.net4.x framework in particular) updates please refrain from hard shut downs or reboots until you get the official "updates were installed" popup on the desktop to appear. some of these framework updates can take up to 20 minutes after reaching the desktop before they complete and popup appears, also they may have sequential updates in each series

These framework updates must wait for your computer to be idle before replacing and or updating the assemblies until then, your computer may be non responsive

Easy remedy if net updates.... reboot and get to your desktop then go eat a sandwich and come back in 20min , check for additional .net updates rinse and repeat until there no more

Silly humans

Thanks, I'll watch out for that.

I'm pretty sure what got me for both installs was loading optional updates.

MS Keyboard USB...
MS other hardware...
MS pointing drawing...
nVidia - graphic.....
Realtek........

Should have know better than to update "Optional" stuff.